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08-17-2010, 12:35 PM | #199 |
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The Panamera Turbo walks it and even though it constantly gets ranked lower, the CTS-V has already shown it's faster on a track. There isn't even enough room to get into all the better sports coupes.
The M3 is a great car but if you think it's the best thing on the road, in any of it's variations, you need to get out more. |
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08-17-2010, 01:24 PM | #200 | ||
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It would be interesting to see how an E90 M3 ZCP DCT stacks against the Panamera Turbo and CTS-V sedan on track. I'll bet that it would not be far off. And in a subjective comparison that takes more than track times into account, who knows which would win. Panamera would be the likely winner, but you never know. Quote:
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08-17-2010, 02:15 PM | #201 | |
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At any rate, second best in what, in acceleration? Wouldn't the CTS-V be #1? |
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08-17-2010, 03:10 PM | #202 | ||||
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No harm intended, I guess I misread your comment.
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He makes a habit of regularly embarrasing exotic cars on the highway. Not my cup of tea. A CTS-V is certainly a pretty damn good car - but still too big and heavy. Muscle first (although a pretty good handler). And if you've read the latest comparisons against the M3 Coupe ZCP DCT, you've noticed it also didn't place first. And yes, even the track times are within a spit of each other. Walks it typically means an acceleration contest - and I am in no doubt the Panamera Turbo is significantly faster in a straight line than an M3. Plus a $1000 chip will make it a 600+ BHP monster. But it's a big bluff thing, no finesse, and no manual gearbox - if I wanted a tank, I'd buy a Sherman. Quote:
And unlike many on the forums who do magazine racing, I actually track my cars - I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I know my way around a performance car. I know what I want from a car on track - it must have balance, must be progressive and intuitive - all attributes the M3 has got in spades - and the reason it wins all the damn comparisons. If you don't care about this, then get whatever floats your boat. Quote:
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I'm not afraid of owning a different brand. Just tell me who else offers a 4 door car with the speed, agility, handling and comfort of the M3, which I can drive in Europe to my heart's content, perhaps do a few laps on the Nurburgring, and all this for less than $51k. I'll sell the M3 and buy this impossible wonder in a heartbeat. Let me try to rephrase this - I don't have a BMW tattoo or bathroom towel - not even a baseball cap. It's just that in the past 10 years in my search for a practical performance car (4 seater, trunk) BMW has been the only one that has managed to deliver the right dose of excitement, practicality, performance and comfort - by a country mile. They always seem to have that extra little edge - a little less weight, a more exciting engine, perfectly calibrated suspension, the right amount of grip to keep the car entertaining - everything in balance, harmoniously working together to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. The cars have never been perfect - each generation having little quirks, drawbacks, annoyances and faults - but they have always managed to put a huge grin on my face after the little one was safely delivered to school, or when the wife wasn't looking. The current M3 clearly comes from this great family - it feels every bit as exciting and special as the other ones. Everything is honed to greatness, it speaks of engineering prowess, it's simply so damn good. And never, ever fails to put a huge grin on my face on that special drive. Any car nut only needs one drive to "get" this car. People can easily recognize this special-ness, it simply oozes out of it. Sure, there are faster cars. More exciting cars. More luxurious cars. But never one that mixes all these things in such an organic manner - at least at this price point. And that is, in very simple terms, why it wins all these comparisons. If some other manufacturer can build a better car using the M3 recipe, I'd be thrilled to give it a go. But in the meantime, I'm too busy enjoying my M - and don't begrudge anybody their right - or pleasure - of driving something else. But yeah, on an *M3 forum*, you can damn right expect people to be passionate about their cars, all the more so when it's so richly deserved.
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08-17-2010, 09:52 PM | #203 | ||
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08-17-2010, 10:16 PM | #204 | ||||||||||
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Have you driven a Panamera? If not, how can you compare the two? Depending on the reviews of magazine editors is silly since the tests they perform have no basis in reality and rarely translate into what is a better real world car. Quote:
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08-18-2010, 03:53 AM | #205 | |||||||
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I get the feeling you want an Autobahn stormer - cars from the M5/E63/Panamera are indeed much better suited to that role than an M3. But those aren't sport sedans, they are fast executive GTs. Quote:
As far as other tracks, when driven back to back by the same driver, there were instances where the M3 bested the CTS-V and instances were it was slower. So exactly how does this invalidate my claim that in fact, they are pretty well matched? Quote:
The track thing is just the icing on the cake. The M3 impresses in other areas of street driving as well. Exactly what are your gripes with it? Quote:
I bought my E90 M3 with an MSRP of $59k for $51k plus taxes, Euro Delivered, for the greatest thrill ever. Drove it through the big Alpine passes, Autobahn, Ring, French Autoroutes, Spain's Autovia as well as back roads everywhere and encountered all manner of road quality and surfacing. Quote:
Check your tire pressures and run on Normal or Comfort on the Autobahn when simply cruising. Sport does tend to set it slightly on edge - then again if you really want to haul ass, I always put it on Sport and dealt with the slightly bumpy ride. Quote:
I think you have the car categories mixed up. The M3 is not a GT - it's a sports sedan. They are supposed to be fast, edgy, raw and exciting, all the while mixing it up with a small dose of comfort and practicality. That the M3 can play the GT part so well while maintaining the exciting side is nothing short of amazing. Quote:
People focus on the agility/balance/track thing of the M3 because well, that is the primary mission of a sport sedan.
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08-18-2010, 07:12 AM | #206 | ||
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08-18-2010, 09:00 AM | #207 | |||||||||||
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I happen not to like cars that large so they're out. Something like the RS5 (well, RS4 since I'm a sedan guy) or C63, if available in manual transmissions, would have probably been better options for me. I have no problems admitting that. However my preference for a manual won out over the high speed cruising since I spend more time shifting that doing 150+. Quote:
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That's all my point has ever been. Again, if your primary concern is Autobahn driving then you shouldn't be looking at a sport sedan. Just get an M5 or big fat AMG, perhaps an R type Jag and call it a day. People focus on the agility/balance/track thing of the M3 because well, that is the primary mission of a sport sedan.[/QUOTE] |
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08-18-2010, 12:45 PM | #208 |
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That's a great list, but those aren't ZCP M-DCT M3s, right? My point was, I'd like to see how a ZCP and M-DCT equipped car could improve on past M3 results. For example, I believe the recent results from the Sport Auto tests of such a car vs. the RS5 were markedly better than the original results from a pre-ZCP 6MT car.
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08-18-2010, 03:20 PM | #209 | |
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Here's a link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399683 A tenth faster than a 6MT with Cup+ on Hockenheim. M3 ZCP DCT ring times are likely to fall below 8 minutes, I'd say. That's speculation of course. Like I say, I'd really love to see it tested. |
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08-18-2010, 05:12 PM | #210 | |
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But sub eight minutes? Don't think so. Not important, though. The M3 is still an overachiever, given its specs. Bruce PS - I'm subbing for footie here, since someone has to. Apparently some genius named jason has not only banned footie from this forum (where he has provided more actual content and thoughtfully presented opinions than nearly anyone), but also banned him from even doing PMs. jason, wherever you are, keep up the hamhanded, haphazard work. |
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08-18-2010, 08:20 PM | #211 |
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the panamera turbo approach to track time is like the gtr. awd, dct, lot of hp/tq from turbo, etc. so I don't doubt the time at all.
if anyone driven both, which one feels better pan turbo vs m3? |
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08-19-2010, 06:35 AM | #212 |
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how much is the panamera turbo? i saw a panamera yesterdy in manhattan black looked good . i dont think it was a turbo becasue an M3 blew its doors off.
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08-19-2010, 07:20 AM | #213 |
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I am sure he will be back in no time!
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08-19-2010, 08:07 AM | #214 | ||
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08-19-2010, 08:12 AM | #215 | |
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08-19-2010, 01:20 PM | #216 | |
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E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | |
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08-19-2010, 01:28 PM | #217 | ||
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08-19-2010, 02:56 PM | #218 | |
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Pretty heady stuff, huh? Apparently, that got him banned from even doing a PM. Jason is apparently out of control. |
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08-19-2010, 03:21 PM | #219 | |
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E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | |
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08-19-2010, 04:27 PM | #220 | |
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This forum appears to be slipping into one in which only Stepford wives need contribute. |
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