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      06-19-2010, 01:13 AM   #1
rzm3
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Arrow Stock vs. Tuner M3 Lap Times Comparison

South mentioned the new lap time set by the ZCP M3 in the other thread, so I thought I'd share more information from Sport Auto.

M3 Lap Times from Hockenheim Race Track
  • a-workx M3: 1:12.4 (DCT, KW CS, Akrapovic Evo, PSCup) 2009/10
  • AC Schnitzer ACS3: 1:12.7 (6MT, ACS Suspension & Exhaust, PSCup, BBK) 2008/11
  • 2011 M3: 1:14.2 (DCT, ZCP, PS2) 2010/7
  • 2008 M3: 1:14.3 (6MT, Cup+) 2007/12
  • Hamann M3: 1:15.0 (6MT, PS2 w/ 305R, Coil Over, Engine Tune, BBK, Exhaust, Aero) 2008/4
  • 2008 M3 Sedan: 1:15.2 (6MT, PS2) 2008/4

Links for the three tuner M3s
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...u-1430341.html
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...t-1031122.html
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...m-1030986.html

Noteables:
  • 2010 GT3 RS: 1:09.5
  • 2009 GTR: 1:11.2
  • 2009 Cayman S: 1:13.9
  • 2008 C63 AMG: 1:15.2

Looks like the combination of DCT and ZCP dropped about 1.1 seconds from the 6MT PS2 M3 (baseline)...

Add KW CS, Akrapovic, and Cup tires to drop ANOTHER 1.8 seconds

Cheapest yet most effective mod you can buy: tires!

Good to see that modifications do actually make a significant difference! (except for Hamann)
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      06-19-2010, 06:42 PM   #2
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Nice find!
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      06-19-2010, 06:46 PM   #3
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thanks for that info...cool to see the gt3 lay down the time it did.
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      06-19-2010, 06:50 PM   #4
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Great idea, R! One more interestint result you could add:

2008 M3: 1:14.3 (6MT, Cup+) 2007/12
http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...d-1036129.html


Best regards,
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      06-19-2010, 07:39 PM   #5
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      06-19-2010, 08:06 PM   #6
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Good find
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      06-19-2010, 09:17 PM   #7
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It seems to me the tuner cars would shave a second or two from just the tire (from PS2 to PS Cup) swap alone.

That doesn't say much about the tune IMHO.

Either that or the PS2 is a much better tire than it's given credit for in comparison to the PS Cups at least.
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      06-19-2010, 09:26 PM   #8
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Great post, pretty impressive time differences for such a short lap.
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      06-19-2010, 10:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Great idea, R! One more interestint result you could add:

2008 M3: 1:14.3 (6MT, Cup+) 2007/12
http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...d-1036129.html


Best regards,
south
Thanks! Sport Auto really need to upgrade their web site... but everything should be correct now.
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      06-20-2010, 09:56 AM   #10
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Great find! I will try to get some pictures and track time up there soon! I'm currently working 12 hour shifts for the next got damn 10 days. So this weekend is out... plus I have a Meeting on saturday with Mflight that I will have to try and squeeeeze into my schedule.
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      06-20-2010, 11:40 AM   #11
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just a note on the PSC's. Not all are created equal. The RS in question most likely was on the oem PSC's that come with the car. These are not the "real" PSC's. They have additional grooves for wet weather although they do nothing to improve them in the wet and they definitely are slower than proper PSC's. Another thing is the tires do make the greatest difference, but alignment and matching up the suspension to handle the additional traction is crucial. I know the european M3's can be optioned with PSC's from factory. I wonder if the suspension is adjusted in any way or if EDC compensates for the dramatically different characteristics of these tires.
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      06-20-2010, 12:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
just a note on the PSC's. Not all are created equal. The RS in question most likely was on the oem PSC's that come with the car. These are not the "real" PSC's. They have additional grooves for wet weather although they do nothing to improve them in the wet and they definitely are slower than proper PSC's. Another thing is the tires do make the greatest difference, but alignment and matching up the suspension to handle the additional traction is crucial. I know the european M3's can be optioned with PSC's from factory. I wonder if the suspension is adjusted in any way or if EDC compensates for the dramatically different characteristics of these tires.
Interesting point. As far as I know, the suspension calibration is the same for PS2's and PSC's. They're both homologated on the same model and the same rim, so it would be tough to keep people (including dealers) from switching back and forth.

Your point on "which PSC did they use" was equally interesting. The article on the a-workx car says that it was on the "non-rain-modified" PSC's - 235/35x19 F and 265/30 x 19 R. Interesting.
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      06-20-2010, 12:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Interesting point. As far as I know, the suspension calibration is the same for PS2's and PSC's. They're both homologated on the same model and the same rim, so it would be tough to keep people (including dealers) from switching back and forth.

Your point on "which PSC did they use" was equally interesting. The article on the a-workx car says that it was on the "non-rain-modified" PSC's - 235/35x19 F and 265/30 x 19 R. Interesting.
Thats also interesting that they chose to stick with such narrow fronts and 19 inch rims. Going down to an 18 and squaring up the size front/back as even as possible would easily yield another 1/4 to 1/2 second off a lap the length of Hockenheim.
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      06-21-2010, 03:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
South mentioned the new lap time set by the ZCP M3 in the other thread, so I thought I'd share more information from Sport Auto.

M3 Lap Times from Hockenheim Race Track
  • a-workx M3: 1:12.4 (DCT, KW CS, Akrapovic Evo, PSCup) 2009/10
  • AC Schnitzer ACS3: 1:12.7 (6MT, ACS Suspension & Exhaust, PSCup, BBK) 2008/11
  • 2011 M3: 1:14.2 (DCT, ZCP, PS2) 2010/7
  • 2008 M3: 1:14.3 (6MT, Cup+) 2007/12
  • Hamann M3: 1:15.0 (6MT, PS2 w/ 305R, Coil Over, Engine Tune, BBK, Exhaust, Aero) 2008/4
  • 2008 M3 Sedan: 1:15.2 (6MT, PS2) 2008/4

Links for the three tuner M3s
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...u-1430341.html
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...t-1031122.html
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...m-1030986.html

Noteables:
  • 2010 GT3 RS: 1:09.5
  • 2009 GTR: 1:11.2
  • 2009 Cayman S: 1:13.9
  • 2008 C63 AMG: 1:15.2

Looks like the combination of DCT and ZCP dropped about 1.1 seconds from the 6MT PS2 M3 (baseline)...

Add KW CS, Akrapovic, and Cup tires to drop ANOTHER 1.8 seconds

Cheapest yet most effective mod you can buy: tires!

Good to see that modifications do actually make a significant difference! (except for Hamann)


At noteables now you should add Audi RS5 with 1:15.3

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      06-21-2010, 05:25 AM   #15
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M3 has a lot of potential. Even M3 GTS has yet a lot of potential, as BMW M plans to build an even more hard-core version.

Speculations N-Ring:
M3 ZCP: 8:00 min
M3 GTS: 7:35 min
M3 GTS-R: 7:25 min

M3 GTS-R Specs Speculation:
4.4l V8 480 PS and 460 Nm
0-100 km/h: 4,0 sec
V-Max: 320 km/h
1525 kg (EU)
N-Ring: 7:25 min
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      06-29-2010, 09:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
M3 has a lot of potential. Even M3 GTS has yet a lot of potential, as BMW M plans to build an even more hard-core version.

Speculations N-Ring:
M3 ZCP: 8:00 min
M3 GTS: 7:35 min
M3 GTS-R: 7:25 min

M3 GTS-R Specs Speculation:
4.4l V8 480 PS and 460 Nm
0-100 km/h: 4,0 sec
V-Max: 320 km/h
1525 kg (EU)
N-Ring: 7:25 min
I highly doubt the 7:25 time for a rwd 480hp car though unless it is less than 3000lbs. but who know, i could be wrong.
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      06-29-2010, 11:12 AM   #17
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It's cool info. The only lamentable thing, like I said in that other thread you mention, is that we don't have a non-ZCP M-DCT time to compare to. So, it's not clear how much time can be attributed to DCT and how much can be attributed to ZCP. My suspiscion is that the DCT is contributing the lion's share of the improvement but that's just my SWAG.
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      06-29-2010, 11:37 AM   #18
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Were all these cars driven by the same driver on the same day, at the same time? The answer is of course no so how much does this really tell us about the difference between the cars? Just saying ...
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      06-29-2010, 12:38 PM   #19
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I thought the crappy strut suspension starts being an issue right about that level, but maybe not. At least the M3 just has it in the front, not at all four corners, like most Porsches. Race M3s have control-arm front suspension, obviously (just like my Accord ). BMW cheaped out on the struts and single-piston calipers IMO, but to me (no tracking) neither is an issue. Just an observation . Good day gang.
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      07-05-2010, 03:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
Were all these cars driven by the same driver on the same day, at the same time? The answer is of course no so how much does this really tell us about the difference between the cars? Just saying ...
+1!!!!!!!
weather/track condition will like have differed as well..
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      07-05-2010, 03:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
Were all these cars driven by the same driver on the same day, at the same time? The answer is of course no so how much does this really tell us about the difference between the cars? Just saying ...
+1,000,000

Driver in this case is the single biggest unaccountable variable. Throw in the different conditions and done. Not saying this isn't interesting but it's hardly definitive.
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      07-05-2010, 05:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
South mentioned the new lap time set by the ZCP M3 in the other thread, so I thought I'd share more information from Sport Auto.

M3 Lap Times from Hockenheim Race Track
  • a-workx M3: 1:12.4 (DCT, KW CS, Akrapovic Evo, PSCup) 2009/10
  • AC Schnitzer ACS3: 1:12.7 (6MT, ACS Suspension & Exhaust, PSCup, BBK) 2008/11
  • 2011 M3: 1:14.2 (DCT, ZCP, PS2) 2010/7
  • 2008 M3: 1:14.3 (6MT, Cup+) 2007/12
  • Hamann M3: 1:15.0 (6MT, PS2 w/ 305R, Coil Over, Engine Tune, BBK, Exhaust, Aero) 2008/4
  • 2008 M3 Sedan: 1:15.2 (6MT, PS2) 2008/4

Links for the three tuner M3s
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...u-1430341.html
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...t-1031122.html
http://www.sportauto-online.de/einze...m-1030986.html

Noteables:
  • 2010 GT3 RS: 1:09.5
  • 2009 GTR: 1:11.2
  • 2009 Cayman S: 1:13.9
  • 2008 C63 AMG: 1:15.2

Looks like the combination of DCT and ZCP dropped about 1.1 seconds from the 6MT PS2 M3 (baseline)...

Add KW CS, Akrapovic, and Cup tires to drop ANOTHER 1.8 seconds

Cheapest yet most effective mod you can buy: tires!

Good to see that modifications do actually make a significant difference! (except for Hamann)
The PSC's are the major reason for the reduction in times. They should seperate between PSC's and regular street radials.

Dave
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