Positive signs for the future: Next M3 weight

[BMW M Power Mexico]

It seems that the next 3 series might be keeping the bloat in check. If we look at the weight changes of the cars that are already out that share the next 3´s platform, weight gain is slim to none.

The new X3 is lighter than it´s predecessor while growing slightly in size.

Also, the new 1 series hatch has very positive (weight-wise) news. Analyzing the official EU BMW stats, the variant that gains the most (the 118i) gains only 45 pounds. While another variants (like the 120d) are actually lighter than the previous gen. The 1 series also is slightly larger in dimensions than the previous gen.

I think there is a good chance BMW will be able to keep the 3 series weight in check with the next generation, thus the M3 as well.

People have been worried about the weight gain in the 5 series, but let´s remember that the 5 now shares platform with the 7 series and in the process lost its lightweight aluminum front end in the last generation change. So weight increases in the 5 & 7 series mean little for the future of the 3 in my opinion.

[Kiemyster]

Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico

People have been worried about the weight gain in the 5 series, but let´s remember that the 5 now shares platform with the 7 series and in the process lost its lightweight aluminum front end in the last generation change. So weight increases in the 5 & 7 series mean little for the future of the 3 in my opinion.

excellent post. a question is does the new m5 get more aluminum/alloy in its body or would you say its the same? Thats what im wondering. If anything, I say the new m3 may be some insignificant figure havier than it is now, but nothing to raise any alarms. It would be nice to see a lighter 3er.

[mkoesel]

Your point about the 5 series now sharing a platform with the 7 series is interesting given that - and you may not have realized this - in a similar way, the new 1 series now shares a platform with the upcoming 3 series as well.

I wonder how the 1 series was able to get away with sharing a platform with a larger car without gaining too much weight, while the 5 series gained a significant amount when undergoing the same evolution? One could point out that this might speak well for the new 3 series. This, especially given that the new X3 also shares the same basic chassis, and it, too, has lost weight as you say.

The answer to the 5 series weight question might very well be due more to features and content than it is the platform itself. I would not bet against an F10 body in white weighing the same as or less than an E60 body in white. But once you start bolting all the parts on, it easy for things to go awry. You have to keep up with the Jones (Audi, Mercedes) in the gadget department, not to mention the chassis department.

All this means that the jury is still out, IMHO. An overly contented 3 series (if there can be such a thing, from a luxury point of view) could easily counteract any weight savings that the newer platform may be capable of yielding. On the other hand, an M3, with some carbon fiber body panels and other lightweight measures could offset much of the fluff.

In the end, I'd still have to guess that the new M3 will weigh about the same as the current one. It might be a little less, or it might be a little more. It is, IMHO, not going to be a revolution in lightweight four seat sports coupes.

[e1000]

did the weight of the new M5 get released? That would be a really good indicator of what's to come IMO. Even then, M has been known to try a lot of new things with only the M3.

[mkoesel]

Yes the M3 weight was published in the press release. I suspect this is partly what motivated the OP to post. See the M5 thread(s) in this forum for some discussion on it.

[e1000]

Ah ok. Here are the numbers for the F10

M5: 4,122lbs
550i: 4376lbs

difference: -254lbs.

not too shabby!

[mkoesel]

^^^

Keep in mind the F10 550i is *a lot* heavier than the E60 550i. The F10 M5 is still heavier than the E60 M5 - by about 200 lbs or so.

[e1000]

F10 550i weight is offensive.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by e1000

Ah ok. Here are the numbers for the F10

M5: 4,122lbs
550i: 4376lbs

difference: -254lbs.

not too shabby!

That is impressive. I saw the flurry of posts on the F10 M5 but did not see a weight figure anywhere. What is the source?

This is precisely opposite of the 335i vs M3 where the M3 is heavier.

[e1000]

The M5 figure was taken from the official specs on the bimmerpost official thread

The 550i figure was taken straight from the BMW website. Both numbers are unlaiden weight so they should be comparable.

All M cars have typically been heavier than their non-M counterparts.

[mkoesel]

An analog to the F10 numbers would be if the next 335i weighs 3900 lbs and the next M3 weighs 3800 lbs. Great, right?

Sure, until you compare to the outgoing models: the current 335i weighs 3500lbs and the current M3 weighs 3700 lbs., so that's not really progress then, IMHO.

I'm not saying this is how it will go down, I am just using this as a hypothetical to keep things in perspective. Remember, BMW marketing department is slippery.

[3XTR3M3]

Great post op.

[BMW M Power Mexico]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

excellent post. a question is does the new m5 get more aluminum/alloy in its body or would you say its the same? Thats what im wondering. If anything, I say the new m3 may be some insignificant figure havier than it is now, but nothing to raise any alarms. It would be nice to see a lighter 3er.

The new M5 is a bit heavier than the 550i according to the official info released today.

As per BMW´s website, the 550i is 1,905 KG and the M5 is 1945 KG (both EU unladen which include driver, fuel, luggage). The M5 has more standard equipment so it is basically a wash.

I think it will be similar with 335i/340i? vs M3. The M3 will be close to the top 3 series coupe. Will it be lighter? Maybe, but very slightly so if at all would be my guess.

[BMW M Power Mexico]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Your point about the 5 series now sharing a platform with the 7 series is interesting given that - and you may not have realized this - in a similar way, the new 1 series now shares a platform with the upcoming 3 series as well.

I wonder how the 1 series was able to get away with sharing a platform with a larger car without gaining too much weight, while the 5 series gained a significant amount when undergoing the same evolution? One could point out that this might speak well for the new 3 series. This, especially given that the new X3 also shares the same basic chassis, and it, too, has lost weight as you say.

The answer to the 5 series weight question might very well be due more to features and content than it is the platform itself. I would not bet against an F10 body in white weighing the same as or less than an E60 body in white. But once you start bolting all the parts on, it easy for things to go awry. You have to keep up with the Jones (Audi, Mercedes) in the gadget department, not to mention the chassis department.

All this means that the jury is still out, IMHO. An overly contented 3 series (if there can be such a thing, from a luxury point of view) could easily counteract any weight savings that the newer platform may be capable of yielding. On the other hand, an M3, with some carbon fiber body panels and other lightweight measures could offset much of the fluff.

In the end, I'd still have to guess that the new M3 will weigh about the same as the current one. It might be a little less, or it might be a little more. It is, IMHO, not going to be a revolution in lightweight four seat sports coupes.

I think the 1 hasnt gained much weight because it has been sharing the 3er platform since the initial generation. The current 1 coupe and the E90 share their platforms already, and they will share again for the F generation which the 1 hatch is bringing out first.

That sharing makes the 1 relatively heavy for its size - even today the weight difference between a 1 series and the equivalent 3 isn´t that much.

The 5er on the other hand los its front aluminum body when it switched to the 7er platform. BMW downplayed this a lot but I think it was a step backwards.

I agree with you that the next M3 (and in general the 1 and 3 series lines) will be similar in weight to the current lineup. To do much better on the M3 BMW would have to go a lot further using exotic materials.

However, keeping it the same would be good enough in my opinion. The E90/92 are fantastic as they are today at their best "all-in-one" car in the world missions.

[BMW M Power Mexico]

Originally Posted by e1000

Ah ok. Here are the numbers for the F10

M5: 4,122lbs
550i: 4376lbs

difference: -254lbs.

not too shabby!

I think these figures are wrong. Official specs say the 550i is 1,905KG and M5 is 1,945 KG using the same methodology. So the M5 is again the heaviest 5 series (as usual).

[e1000]

Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico

I think these figures are wrong. Official specs say the 550i is 1,905KG and M5 is 1,945 KG using the same methodology. So the M5 is again the heaviest 5 series (as usual).

F10 M5: Unladen - 1870kg, DIN/EU - 1945kg
F10 550i: Unladen - 4,376lbs (1,969kg)***

*** The international BMW site does list the unladen weight for a 550i as 1905kg, however, this is probably due to differences in the models sold in ROW compared to US spec cars. For the US, my numbers are correct.

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Originally Posted by swamp2

That is impressive. I saw the flurry of posts on the F10 M5 but did not see a weight figure anywhere. What is the source?

This is precisely opposite of the 335i vs M3 where the M3 is heavier.

The M3 also has a V8 engine up front. Apples to Oranges. Honestly, with the amount of tech that will be crammed into the next gen M3, I personally think it will gain weight.

[karussell]

it will be bigger car and thus heavier unless they use expensive materials to keep the weight down but that drives the cost up.

i'm hoping they take lessons learned from carbon frame they have developed for the I3 and apply it to the next M3. maybe BMW will surprise us :-) every new M3 generation has been bigger which is inevitable since its tied to the 3 series, but they have also been faster. still keeping my fingers crossed.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by karussell

it will be bigger car and thus heavier unless they use expensive materials to keep the weight down but that drives the cost up.

The next 3er is more or less the same size as the existing car. I'm not sure if the overall LxWxH dimensions are final but from what I have seen the bloat has actually stopped! The biggest dimensional change is an increased wheelbase which will give more cabin room with a roughly equivalent length car.

Some good parallel discussion going on here.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico

I think the 1 hasnt gained much weight because it has been sharing the 3er platform since the initial generation. The current 1 coupe and the E90 share their platforms already, and they will share again for the F generation which the 1 hatch is bringing out first.

Is this true? My understanding has always been that there are shared chassis components but that the basic platforms (hard points like pillar locations, firewalls, suspension pickups) were very different.

The 5er on the other hand los its front aluminum body when it switched to the 7er platform. BMW downplayed this a lot but I think it was a step backwards.

I should have pointed out earlier that this is a great point - and a salient one at that. It would be very interesting to know just how much more the subframes for the F1x weigh as compared to the E6x (both 5 and 7).