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10-19-2010, 09:26 AM | #89 |
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interesting thread. I find it extremely hard to believe that a 6MT will not be offered. Indeed, I think many BMW owners, whether they own a 6MT or not, believe that offering a 6MT makes BMW unique in their dedication to the purist driving experience. My opinion of the brand would undoubtedly deteriorate, and I think they would lose some customers to Porsche.
Good to hear that they will continue to offer a sedan. |
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10-19-2010, 09:50 AM | #90 | |||
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10-19-2010, 09:53 AM | #91 |
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Possible, yes. It's happened with other cars in the past.
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10-19-2010, 10:02 AM | #93 |
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very interesting thread. Looking forward to new developments. Like everyone else said lets hope there is a 6mt option. we will just have to wait and see.
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10-19-2010, 11:20 AM | #94 |
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Computers do everything better. It's just a matter of time. MTs are slow compared to a good AT. They shift faster, and are more efficient. I got sick of driving a MT. A DCT is the way to go.
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10-19-2010, 11:29 AM | #95 |
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10-19-2010, 11:30 AM | #96 |
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would anyone of you take the 991 turbo? if your answer is yes, then I don't see a reason why a turbo m can't sell. In fact, I think it would sell like hot cake because the fast and furious crowds love the boost. remember there are lot of fast and furious among us.
they should just keep the current v8, add stop/start function, brake regenerate whatever, add direct injection, add a super charger download, then turbo charge it at the same time. I think this should save development cost, no? if the new m stay around 3400lbs and 500hp. Still porky, but I think that is achievable. mt should be standard. |
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10-19-2010, 11:33 AM | #97 | |
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BMW is thinking global instead of niche market. From an accounting standpoint it makes no sense to continue offering a manual transmission that is really used in a very small percentage of their product line. I'm sure they are willing to lose a few sales to purists who demand a MT in their sports cars -- because they sell a hell of a lot more SUVs and sedans with ATs to make up the difference. Hell even Porsche purists admit the PDK shifts faster and better and gets better fuel economy than the manual transmission. I think the MT is going to be a very small % of Porsche future sales too -- and as soon as that happens the bean counters will kill it.
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10-19-2010, 11:35 AM | #98 | |
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10-19-2010, 11:39 AM | #99 |
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Most panels, Ash. The trunk and the doors are shared. The hood, front bumper, rear bumper, front quarter panels, and rear panels + roof are unique.
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10-19-2010, 11:42 AM | #100 |
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great thread, excluding the 6MT vs. DCT conjecture.
a couple comments to add: 1. not sure where i heard, but i think the current Roundel, mention of a M3-GT variant as a possibility 2. i remember comment that BMW will move to DCT for larger cars and stick with 6MT (pun!) available for smaller cars. not sure where the M3 falls on the big/small issue, but if the new M5 has an available 6MT, you'd have to assume the F3X will also have this available. |
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10-19-2010, 11:46 AM | #101 | |
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Sorry to go off-topic...
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10-19-2010, 12:06 PM | #102 | |
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That's the only reason I didn't buy an M3 this time around. I need AWD. I just can't afford a M3, and a X6.
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10-19-2010, 12:35 PM | #103 | |
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My point, that you completely missed while struggling to come up with a smart ass reply, is that the M's are increasingly just as you describe, just slightly modded 3's. Obviously according to your defenition of "modded", they always have been, but a few bolt on suspension members, stroked engine, and... (oh yes, body panels ) Let me be clear, I'm NOT hating on the M3. In fact, I think it's generally the best sports sedan out of the box. Stock to stock, it handles better than any other 3. It's a great engine, a true swan song to NA (unfortunately). For me, I race bikes and karts, and need to tow a trailer (yes, crazy, I tow a trailer) so went with the 335, modded the hell out of it, and now it's an even better car than it started out. 530hp/530tq at the crank, 1.2G cornering on our local road course, beat 70% of the exotics at Race the Base 300kph top speed event, with a trailer hitch and baby seat in the back. So please understand my comments aren't a 335 vs M3 flame war, I'm simply pointing out that when you look at the numbers: light weight, cheap, fast, handling... the 335 embodies the original M spirit pretty well. This is a thread about the future direction of the M. And like many here, it seems like more and more it's the bean counters taking control at M; which for years they'd successfully prevented from happening. Corvette and Mustang are doing better at staying true to their roots these days.
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10-19-2010, 12:43 PM | #104 |
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10-19-2010, 12:44 PM | #105 | |
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To me sometimes its not about being more efficient or being able to shift faster. There is something about driving a 6mt that a DCT transmission cannot substitute. I could careless if it can shift faster than me or if it saves me gas money. For me its all about the feeling of driving the car and without a clutch pedal I can't say that I fully enjoy it. Yes I have driven the DCT quite a bit and use to own an SMG e46.
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10-19-2010, 01:02 PM | #106 | |
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that's what they said about the pencil when the typewriter came out
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10-19-2010, 01:10 PM | #107 |
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10-19-2010, 01:16 PM | #108 | |
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technological evolution it's inevitable. you move with it or you don't there are some people that still don't have cell phones but that number is diminishing very quickly. very few lament the loss of the rotary dial because it was fun to row through the numbers to have a connection with the phone.
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10-19-2010, 01:25 PM | #109 | |
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So by that analogy, in 50 years, many people will be driving some new-fangled transmission that shifts gears in some way that I can't even comprehend while a healthy percentage will still be driving a plain ole manual. |
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10-19-2010, 01:32 PM | #110 | |
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Lame example. No one ever dialed a phone for "entertainment and dialing pleasure" while cars are driven in huge numbers for "entertainment and driving pleasure". So no one could not have cared less about rotary dial phones.
Apples to oranges comparison. Makes no sense. A more applicable counter-example is how Wii destroyed PS3 in the video games market despite its inferior video and processor design. Why?? Simple answer is physical involvement. Wii went back to the basics as far as 70s and 80s for inspiration. It requires all four limbs to be used while PS3 required two thumbs to be used. So where to draw the line? Where does technological evolution for the sake of automation stop?? What about steering?? Tommorow BMW announces the next technological evolution of M cars having complete database of all tracks around the world. You simply go to a track and run the fastest laps imaginable while internal algorithms using sensors on every side of the car figure out how to take the best line, best braking, steering angle, best cornering speed to get the fastest lap time and make the turns. Would you support it too?? That would be boring as hell where the missing element is the physical effort, but hey it is another technological evolution. More technology and more automation always is a good thing. Right?? Quote:
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