HPDE/ Track Day Questions

[Echo M3]

Hi folks,

I did a little bit of searching through past threads, and I couldn't find any decent answers to my questions. So..

I have been considering doing a track session in about a month or so (I am a novice - the closest I have gotten to a track session is amateur karting), and I wanted to get some advice about how to prepare for it. 1.) Given all the complaints I have heard about the M3 brakes, do I really need to buy performance brake pads? Or will my brakes be fine, given that I have no track experience? I plan on doing these sessions once or twice a year at most. 2.) Thoughts on insurance? Is it worth picking up track day insurance, or is that something more likely to be needed by an advanced/intermediate driver who is pushing their car more? And 3.) Are there any concerns re: warranty? Keep in mind I have a DCT, so mis-shifting is not likely to be an issue, but are they likely to deny me warranty/service coverage if I have tracked my car once or twice?

Thanks for the advice folks, as always it's great to have a panel of experts here

[LiM3y]

Originally Posted by pman10

Hi folks,

I did a little bit of searching through past threads, and I couldn't find any decent answers to my questions. So..

I have been considering doing a track session in about a month or so (I am a novice - the closest I have gotten to a track session is amateur karting), and I wanted to get some advice about how to prepare for it. 1.) Given all the complaints I have heard about the M3 brakes, do I really need to buy performance brake pads? Or will my brakes be fine, given that I have no track experience? I plan on doing these sessions once or twice a year at most. 2.) Thoughts on insurance? Is it worth picking up track day insurance, or is that something more likely to be needed by an advanced/intermediate driver who is pushing their car more? And 3.) Are there any concerns re: warranty? Keep in mind I have a DCT, so mis-shifting is not likely to be an issue, but are they likely to deny me warranty/service coverage if I have tracked my car once or twice?

Thanks for the advice folks, as always it's great to have a panel of experts here

My 2 cents, after tracking once two years ago for the first time and 4 days last year:

1) The stock set up is fine for a novice learning the ropes. They key to improving is learning the 'line' (find a good instructor - I always go for the older guys). You quickly pick up speed, and learn to brake later, as your confidence grows. You will be stunned at what the car can do, and I don't even know what the car can really do yet.... It will become obvious when you need to upgrade brake pads - you will feel them soften during the runs and you may 'glaze' the rotors which leads to them feeling warped, especially the day after This happened to me after my fifth event total. This season, I will run with track pads, track wheels/tires, upgraded brake fluid, and stainless steel brake lines. This is based on reading here and discussion at the track/bar

2) I insured my car for peace of mind. If you wrap it, the lienholder will want their money back as the asset/equity has been destroyed. If you own it, you get to play again! I did one off insurance with Lockton (~300-400), but this year I will get multiple event insurance as I will run multiple events. This saves ~50% of the premium for 8 events. There is still the possibility that you can wreck no matter what run group you are in, just the advanced groups are more spectacular because they are going faster and closer to the car's limits and thus less forgiving of mistakes. A well run business/organization will minimize the chance of someone else running into you by having dedicated/controlled passing areas. I won't run in a free passing HPDE - or I will buy a race car first!

3) I have found my SA to be cool with HPDE events and have openly discussed how the car runs out of interest. I don't think they were playing me and have given me no grief in service visits. This varies from dealer to dealer, and probably varies with how much grief they have had in the past with HPDE'd M3s. The only "issue" is them stating that the obvious about non-OEM/non-BMW installed mods voiding warranty for the part and associated damage caused by the mod.

This had been my experience as a noob! You will get different experience and comments from others, so don't take this as definitive by any means.

I was driving solo after 3 events as I had good instructors and did a load of background reading. I enjoyed seeing the theory play out in practice. The car is fantastic, rewarding and HPDE's are addictive. I started out with all the nannies on, but run now in MDM mode which lets the tail flick a little, but keeps you straight. Advanced drivers see this as interference, but I am not at the standard yet, so I am happy in my ignorance!

Have fun and don't be scared!

[von_zoom]

Hi pman10
Good on you for considering a HPDE event. By all means, go and have a good time. You will learn a lot about your car and your driving ability in the bargin.

Brakes - I don't think that you need to do anything about brakes at this time in your learning experience. Down the road, depending upon your progress, a change in pads will likely be required.

Insurance - I pass on this. Each individual has priorities when finance is at issue. I am fortunate that NC, the state I live in, requires that my normal insurance be effective at the track, PROVIDED, I am not racing in any manner what so ever. HPDE events are not competitive events. They are educational. You may wish to run this question by your insurance agent (company).

Warranty - My opinion - I would be quick to argue with BMW if this became an issue over my tracking my car. BMW touts performance, race heritage, ultimante driving machine, the Nurenburg Ring, their own Performance Center where HPDE type driving is taught, and what else - so anything you do mechanically at an educational function should pass warranty questions easily.

Finally, sign up, go, relax, learn, but be warned - This can become addictive.
vz

[r53s65e90]

Originally Posted by LiM3y

1) The stock set up is fine for a novice learning the ropes.

+1

2) I insured my car for peace of mind.

+1
The probability of something happening in the beginner groups is much lower but still exists. I have a 1 year insurance since it comes out cheaper for me than per event.

3) I have found my SA to be cool with HPDE events and have openly discussed how the car runs out of interest. ...

-1
I would keep the tracking to myself. No need to find out the hard way whether your SA is OK with it. I have heard otherwise from people.

Important: Take the time to cool down your brakes after every session by driving around (after you drop off your instructor) for at least 5 min at moderate speeds. Track utility roads are perfect for this. DON'T EVER PARK IMMEDIATELY (even if you have done a cool down lap at the track). I learned this the hard way back in 2006.

As you become faster and still follow strict brake cool down regiments, you may end up with vibrating brakes at the end of the day regardless of all the precautions you took. This is because of the stock pads not being very suitable for very fast track driving and leave uneven deposits on the rotors at high temperatures (this is an explanation that makes sense and I got it from this forum). This goes away after several hard stops in the days following the events. It is not rotor warping (unless you did not cool down enough).

Have fun

[BRDHNTR]

These guys gave great advice. I went to my first HPDE in the spring of last year, and bone stock M3 does just fine for the first time. Later on you'll definitely want at least brake pads. Just make sure you have fresh brake fluid (you'll need it to pass tech anyway) and enough tread to pass tech and you'll be fine.

Which event are you going to attend? I'm going to Summit Point at the end of April for 3 days with the Del Val chapter BMW CCA, and then two weeks later I'll be at Watkins Glen with the GVC BMW CCA. Yes, I know it's Mother's Day weekend, but I'm bringing my mother with me or at least my parents are going up there and they'll do some wine tours.

[LiM3y]

I got 'caught' by the SA, so I 'fessed up! and we had a chat about how the car was. I asked if I was in trouble and he said no real problem unless there was clear abuse (e.g. new rotors every 3K) or non-OEM parts issues. I didn't walk in there and announce it!!!

So, don't tell your SA. Let him work it out for himself - rubber marble skidmarks on the running boards is a dead giveaway BTW!!

[r53s65e90]

Originally Posted by LiM3y

So, don't tell your SA. Let him work it out for himself - rubber marble skidmarks on the running boards is a dead giveaway BTW!!

Good point! I forgot this. Clean them while they are fresh

More info here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284578

[Echo M3]

Awesome advice! Huge thanks to the first few posters, that definitely allays my concerns. I can't wait for next month now.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by BRDHNTR

These guys gave great advice. I went to my first HPDE in the spring of last year, and bone stock M3 does just fine for the first time. Later on you'll definitely want at least brake pads. Just make sure you have fresh brake fluid (you'll need it to pass tech anyway) and enough tread to pass tech and you'll be fine.

Which event are you going to attend? I'm going to Summit Point at the end of April for 3 days with the Del Val chapter BMW CCA, and then two weeks later I'll be at Watkins Glen with the GVC BMW CCA. Yes, I know it's Mother's Day weekend, but I'm bringing my mother with me or at least my parents are going up there and they'll do some wine tours.

I am signed up for the Trackacardia session at Monticello next month. THose all sound awesome, I would love to visit Watkins Glen. Hopefully I can squeeze it in over the summer, if only my work schedule was not so hectic...

[LiM3y]

Originally Posted by pman10

I am signed up for the Trackacardia session at Monticello next month. THose all sound awesome, I would love to visit Watkins Glen. Hopefully I can squeeze it in over the summer, if only my work schedule was not so hectic...

Monticello was a blast in an M3 in the full track format, the long straights give you a chance to really spool up the V-8 and stretch the cars legs - you may even catch some of those pesky Lotus Elise's (in a non-competitive way, of course!). I am planning on going there in May with SCDA. It was wet when I was there...here is some Youtube film of some low quality driving from a noob. Actually seeing on film how much you are missing apexs etc does wonders for your technique...the film doesn't lie!!!