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12-06-2008, 02:30 AM | #265 | |
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12-06-2008, 02:46 AM | #266 | |
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12-06-2008, 02:52 AM | #267 | |
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12-06-2008, 02:59 AM | #268 |
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The S65 is 80% the displacement of the S85. It is also 84% the weight and makes 82% of the power (85% if you look at the wheels.)
The S65 is going to be bound in part by being based on the S85. The S65 internals are forged and the rods are steel-magnesium. Pistons are Iron coated and the crank is forged steel. The internals are stronger than the Mercedes 63 series. It is a better built, more technologically advanced motor that pushes the envelope further. |
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12-06-2008, 05:31 AM | #269 | |
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12-06-2008, 05:50 AM | #270 | |
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I do not posit that the M3s V8 is the "best engine" nor do I believe it is good simply because it is made by BMW. I have said time and time again the RS4s V8 was much more innovative for its time. It was revolutionary for a German sports sedan at the time whereas the M3 is really just the M5 with two cylinders lopped off. The M3 V8 absolutely should have had DI and the US version should have got BER like it did in Europe. That being said I do think it is one of the finest engines (and cars) around for for its combination of quality/style/materials/performance/usability/etc. all per dollar. The engines powerband is amazingly broad, perhaps unmatched, and driving it in its upper rpm ranges is so emotionally engaging and satisfying. |
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12-06-2008, 06:03 AM | #271 | |
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12-06-2008, 06:31 AM | #272 | |
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Best regards, south
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12-06-2008, 09:53 AM | #273 | |
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Furthermore, to state that marketing people publish whatever specs they want is nonsense. That may in fact be true in one of, say, 100 companies, but the other 99 just publish the specs, and either put flowery words around them (the way BMW and Mercedes have), or not. Ridiculous. Furthermore, it is very reasonable to assume that both BMW and Mercedes published their respective engine weights under Euro rules - whatever they are. Of course, my love of tweaking aside, it's also very reasonable to assume that the Merc weighs more than the bimmer. So why does the Merc appear to weigh less than the bimmer? Well, in the absence of anybody on here who is knowledgeable of the rules, one reason could be that the bimmer weight includes that dual-mass flywheel (because that's the only way it's built), while the Merc includes its flexplate, because that's the only way it is built. So the Merc gets maybe a thirty pound break, statwise. OK, maybe all the faithful can finally get a good night's sleep. Lastly, all those who think BMW uses its own standards instead of Eurospec or SAE standards for published specs (thereby negating horsepower ratings, torque ratings, engine weight, vehicle weight and all others) please raise your hands. Anyone? Anyone? Didn't think so. Bruce PS - So does the Merc engine weigh more than the bimmer or not? Now, the answer is either, "yes, but..." or "no, but...". Cool. |
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12-06-2008, 12:30 PM | #274 | |||
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12-06-2008, 12:38 PM | #275 |
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When do you guys feel this next generation M3 will be coming out? I want to pull the trigger on purchasing an M3 soon, and I don't want to purchase one when the next advancement is already going to be coming out!
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12-06-2008, 12:49 PM | #276 |
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Yea, gotta say I love my NA high reving M3. I drove couple of 2009 911s two days ago for hours (an S4 and an S) and a missed the high revs sooooooo much. One thing I´ll give the the Porsche though is the really nice dual clutch transmission. Torque never comes down.
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12-06-2008, 12:50 PM | #277 |
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That´s gotta be a least 3 years out.
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12-06-2008, 12:50 PM | #278 |
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I wouldn't hold your breath. The recent M3 is only around 1 year old....
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12-06-2008, 12:54 PM | #279 |
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+1
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12-06-2008, 02:50 PM | #280 |
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Yeah true, that's why I was kind of scratching my head. I'm like damn I could have swore I just got over the jitters of this car just coming out. Haha.
Guess I'll pull the trigger, thanks!
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12-06-2008, 02:52 PM | #281 |
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I have no way of proving this but I reckon BMW have chosen to use high revving N/A engines of modest capacity to insure that the torque levels are only produced to the upper levels of the rev range. This means that gearbox, driveshaft, diff, etc., can be made as light as possible in comparison to the likes of the C63.
I guarantee that if the engine/drivetrain complete for both the M3 and the C63 were laid out in front of us and weighed, we would find that the M3 (even an M-DCT equipped one) would be much lighter. It's one of the reason for their remarkable low draintrain lose. As for whether Mercedes and weighing their engines differently than BMW, that sounds ridiculous. Why would they do such a thing, surely they all have to measure in the same way or is that opinion soooo wrong. |
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12-06-2008, 05:02 PM | #282 |
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If any indication from the last gen, I would say MY2014-ish?
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12-06-2008, 05:11 PM | #283 | |
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You don't seem to get it. The M3 motor uses higher quality components and is more technologically advanced. If the parts are stronger, what makes you think they are more stressed? Once again, considering the E46 M3 could hit more than double the factory hp, seems to me the parts can handle 8k no problem. The Z06 is the one who's rods start to give out at <20% torque increase. Last edited by Sticky; 12-06-2008 at 07:43 PM.. |
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12-06-2008, 07:38 PM | #284 | |
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BTW: I found an German Merc/AMG forum which seems to have quite knowledgable information and the common sense there is that the M156 engine comes in at 223kg (explicitly stated for the CLK version). So we all still think the Merc engine is lighter? Best regards, south
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12-06-2008, 08:08 PM | #285 |
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"Tough emissions standards worldwide and soaring manufacturing costs in Germany are behind BMW's decision to switch from high-revving, naturally aspirated engines in its M high-performance vehicles to turbocharged direct-injection powerplants, beginning as early as next year."
Soaring manufacturing costs...sounds like it's more about the bottom line than the advantages of a turbocharged engine. |
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12-06-2008, 08:22 PM | #286 | |
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Is underrating hp and 0-60 times lying or being conservative. BMW does both. Call it as you like it is not entirely honest. I am keenly interested in the data that shows the weight difference between the C63 and M3 flywheels. If it is so good find. Last but not least, see Souths good posts. I'm with him. |
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