A crisis of image

[brianeck]

We all have our likes and dislikes from the current BMW lineup.

I just popped on the US configurator site to see what new models were there so I could explore my distaste for the NK interiors, and I was actually a little amazed as I scrolled down.

https://www.bmwusa.com/build-your-own.html#/series

It is genuinely remarkable to me how badly BMW is searching for. . . Something that it seems not to be able to find. Almost every single car on the lineup has a completely different take on headlights and grills.

I don't think, ever, at any point in history, there has been quite such a circus trope of front end design for sale at the same time from an automanufacturer.

The concept of brand identity is stretched incredibly thin here. It looks like a bunch of designers are competing for the new thematic language - not like a well oiled arsenal of products for sale under the same direction.

[Leucosticte]

I agree with you, but judging by how many cars they sell people do seem to like their new design language.

[zx10guy]

I actually think much of the people buying isn't about the styling but the badge. BMW has done a great job of combining social prestige with owning a BMW.

[WVNed]

Took the M2 in to get a warranty issue with my seat started at my dealer. I looked over the new ones on the lot.
Nothing I would be interested in. They lack the look and feel of the ones I have now. Plastic front ends and shoddy uneven panel lines on most. Ugly colors trying to be trendy. The door handles wiggle and feel cheap. Vinyl seats. Huge prices. Makes me sad. All with the hoods ajar and electric cords trailing out of them going every which way to power outlets so they don't go dead.

[philth]

I blame the split of M3/M4 & ‘Gran Coupe’ & ‘Gran Turismo’ & the XM & various other ‘death by a thousand cuts’ they inflicted upon themselves.

They lost their identity/ethos a while ago. Around the end E into F.

LOL at the guy with a baby blue G87 talking about plastic front ends, ugly colours, and cheap feelings.

[Manhattan]

BMW may be enjoying some inertia from previous years. The current mixed bag could burn through that.

[brianeck]

Just for reference I'm not even just saying that everything on there is "bad" (but some of it definitely is). I'm more shocked just by how there is no thematic identity whatsoever across all the different models. There are 13 different iterations of kidney grills - some are round, some are more octagonal, some are hoffmeistery, some are vertical, some are f***ing huge. You used to be able to look at a BMW and tell from its design cues that it was part of a family of cars - you could have a rough idea of where it fits into the mix too by the series + engine badges. Now its just an absolute free for all. It's the lack of consistency and how it just looks like 15 different darts were thrown at a board as opposed to just the flat out "this all sucks" that this post is meant to call attention to.

[IndyMike]

Twenty-five years ago when it was pretty much just the 3, 5 and 7 series BMWs were viewed as same sausage, different lengths.

Today there are so many variants and nomenclature's that it takes a die-hard BMW fanboi to spew out the current available vehicles.

I just stick to the "smaller" variants since that is where my interests have always veered towards. I wish I could add "lighter" but given even the two series is close to pushing two tons I think BMW's from now will be forever estranged from that word.

[ShocknAwe]

Bean counters won the day in Munich, sadly.

There isn't a single car from the brand I'd buy today. I encourage you to look up the concept of enshittification.

[Manhattan]

BMW is (was?) positioned as the car for people who like to drive. Contrast that with MB and Lexus - more for those who tolerate driving. But as Millennials care less about cars than Gen-X and Gen-Z cares even less than Millennials, and (worse) as the world moves to EVs, it's going to be tough for BMW. "Hearing" and "feeling" the car don't mean the same thing in an EV.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by WVNed

Took the M2 in to get a warranty issue with my seat started at my dealer. I looked over the new ones on the lot.
Nothing I would be interested in. They lack the look and feel of the ones I have now. Plastic front ends and shoddy uneven panel lines on most. Ugly colors trying to be trendy. The door handles wiggle and feel cheap. Vinyl seats. Huge prices. Makes me sad. All with the hoods ajar and electric cords trailing out of them going every which way to power outlets so they don't go dead.

There's nothing I would buy from BMW currently. So I guess my 2 Ms are staying put for awhile.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Manhattan

BMW is (was?) positioned as the car for people who like to drive. ... "Hearing" and "feeling" the car don't mean the same thing in an EV.

Find an interview with Akio Toyoda talking about their new GR decision. He gets it.

I can't wait to see what Toyota/Lexus has in store for enthusiasts. He says manuals are coming back to their performance lineup too.

I'll gladly go back to JDM.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Find an interview with Akio Toyoda talking about their new GR decision. He gets it.

I can't wait to see what Toyota/Lexus has in store for enthusiasts. He says manuals are coming back to their performance lineup too.

I'll gladly go back to JDM.

Toyota has had some misses too. I do like what I've seen lately as signs they're stepping out of the boring/safe engineering they've fallen into over the past few years. The MkIV Supra, FRS, and the GR Corolla shows that Toyota can put out a car that speaks to enthusiasts. It's unfortunate Toyota didn't reign in dealers with the ridiculous mark ups on the GR Corolla on initial launch. The car was meant for the young car enthusiast that has certain level of income that requires a specific price point.

[Manhattan]

I think Toyota's other big mistake was the Supra's B58. It's an amazing engine. Legendary even. But the cult of Supra was built on the 2JZ-GTE. Sourcing a drivetrain from BMW was a gut punch. It'd be like the new M3 having an LS.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Manhattan

I think Toyota's other big mistake was the Supra's B58. It's an amazing engine. Legendary even. But the cult of Supra was built on the 2JZ-GTE. Sourcing a drivetrain from BMW was a gut punch. It'd be like the new M3 having an LS.

Actually, most of the car is a BMW. Problem is for Toyota to develop their own powerplant along with a whole new chassis requires lots of money. At the time the MkIV was introduced, there weren't any other enthusiast cars in the Toyota lineup other than the FRS. I think they saw the demand is there for a dedicated sports car or a car that addresses the enthusiast market. That's why we got the GR Corolla. It'll be interesting to see what the next platform will be. Talk about the Celica making a come back has been circulating.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Toyota has had some misses too. I do like what I've seen lately as signs they're stepping out of the boring/safe engineering they've fallen into over the past few years. The MkIV Supra, FRS, and the GR Corolla shows that Toyota can put out a car that speaks to enthusiasts. It's unfortunate Toyota didn't reign in dealers with the ridiculous mark ups on the GR Corolla on initial launch. The car was meant for the young car enthusiast that has certain level of income that requires a specific price point.

Wholly agreed. They were making cars on the Lexus side though remember. My point is that it seems all is not lost for enthusiasts as we thought.

Now we're getting the Celica, MR2, GT, yadda yadda.

Hopefully when they kill the mkV they'll redesign the mk6 with their own box/plant, unless that's what the GT actually is.

[dcstep]

I totally agree with the OP. When I was sitting in the showroom, closing on my G83 M4 Comp X, I couldn't help but notice the lack of any consistent "badge" other than the actual badge, which remains, thank goodness.

As for my M4's styling, I love that it's conservative from every view EXCEPT THE SNOUT. I've come to love it, thinking it's message is, "I don't give a crap what you think", which aligns with my own thinking, in this case.

[FrankL]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Find an interview with Akio Toyoda talking about their new GR decision. He gets it.

I can't wait to see what Toyota/Lexus has in store for enthusiasts. He says manuals are coming back to their performance lineup too.

I'll gladly go back to JDM.

The best and most powerful engine in the Toyota - Lexus line up is in the Supra. It is a B58.

The newish V-6 Twin turbos in Lexus & Toyo top of the line trucks and SUVs are terrible. Anything twin turbo generates insane heat. BMW sells them a M's. The S58 is an incredible engine but it is like a race car engine. The B58 single turbo will do just fine.

I do not think any manufacturer can match the B48 and B58 for all around everything. Fuel mileage, reliability, power. All BMW competitors have smaller engines and going turbo and twin turbo. BMW has been doing turbos since 1975/76 - thank you Bob Lutz.

Nissan has been a beneficiary because they sell a pickup with an old gas hog V8. People do not want the Toyo-Lexus V-6 twin turbo. Tundra guys are in full meltdown along with 4Runner buyers.

A friend has a top of the line Subaru SUV. He said it has a turbo 4. It is gutless and gets 15 mpg in the city! I told him my X5 gets 22 mpg (N55) and it will go 0-60 in about 6.2 seconds. My neighbor gets 31 mpg in town in his 2025 X3.

Ford is having major problems with engines including twin turbos. GM-GMC-Caddy is just terrible as usual. I see loads of GMC chromey pickups with bad engines. The point is BMW has some of the best ICE engines in the world. Mercedes may buy B48s. All the other German companies are in turmoil with poor reliability. Porsche buyers want 911s not EVs.

A lot of the EV bloom is also off the rose for many buyers including young ones. I think BMW's EV's appear to be a lot better. I am not a huge fan boy of Schmee150 but he lamented that politicians pushing manufacturers to do EV and wasting tens of billions hurt ICE development.

BMW has great powertrain technology and chassis. They need to fix others things but they appear to be in much better shape. And please Gawd - give us aluminum or metal oil pans and valve covers.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by FrankL

The best and most powerful engine in the Toyota - Lexus line up is in the Supra. It is a B58.

The newish V-6 Twin turbos in Lexus & Toyo top of the line trucks and SUVs are terrible. Anything twin turbo generates insane heat. BMW sells them a M's. The S58 is an incredible engine but it is like a race car engine. The B58 single turbo will do just fine.

I do not think any manufacturer can match the B48 and B58 for all around everything. Fuel mileage, reliability, power. All BMW competitors have smaller engines and going turbo and twin turbo. BMW has been doing turbos since 1975/76 - thank you Bob Lutz.

Nissan has been a beneficiary because they sell a pickup with an old gas hog V8. People do not want the Toyo-Lexus V-6 twin turbo. Tundra guys are in full meltdown along with 4Runner buyers.

A friend has a top of the line Subaru SUV. He said it has a turbo 4. It is gutless and gets 15 mpg in the city! I told him my X5 gets 22 mpg (N55) and it will go 0-60 in about 6.2 seconds. My neighbor gets 31 mpg in town in his 2025 X3.

Ford is having major problems with engines including twin turbos. GM-GMC-Caddy is just terrible as usual. I see loads of GMC chromey pickups with bad engines. The point is BMW has some of the best ICE engines in the world. Mercedes may buy B48s. All the other German companies are in turmoil with poor reliability. Porsche buyers want 911s not EVs.

A lot of the EV bloom is also off the rose for many buyers including young ones. I think BMW's EV's appear to be a lot better. I am not a huge fan boy of Schmee150 but he lamented that politicians pushing manufacturers to do EV and wasting tens of billions hurt ICE development.

BMW has great powertrain technology and chassis. They need to fix others things but they appear to be in much better shape. And please Gawd - give us aluminum or metal oil pans and valve covers.

Ok.

[Janjohn]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Bean counters won the day in Munich, sadly.

There isn't a single car from the brand I'd buy today. I encourage you to look up the concept of enshittification.

Being a multi-vehicle family I’ll say the only vehicle makers that don’t listen carefully to the bean counters are out of business or need government subsidies. I think BMW is trying a variety of kidney grilles and edgy features to see what clicks in what markets. I buy a BMW for the engine, handling, and that feeling that it goes exactly where I point it.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by FrankL

A friend has a top of the line Subaru SUV. He said it has a turbo 4. It is gutless and gets 15 mpg in the city! I told him my X5 gets 22 mpg (N55) and it will go 0-60 in about 6.2 seconds. My neighbor gets 31 mpg in town in his 2025 X3.

His Subaru cost $40k loaded. What did your X5 cost? Definitely not a valid comparison.

[brianeck]

Also that x5, sure, you can take a picture of where it says it has 22mpg. But over a long period of time its gonna revert up 17/18 all day. And that same Subaru, gonna revert to 20/21. Your x5 does not get better gas mileage, fact.