ZF8/ 8HP conversion?

[sperkins]

This post is more out of curiosity than anything else. I'm seeing a lot of stuff on YouTube regarding this swap. I think the Bimmerworld guys use this trans on their 435 race car (factory). I'm trying to go full track car with my 6sp E92. While rowing the gears, and doing the heel/toe dance is enjoyable, the 6sp manual isn't great for track stuff. In comparison, the paddle shifted, 8 speed seems 'sublime'. I did a quick search and couldn't find anyone fitting this trans into our cars.
So yea, just thinking this might be a pretty legit swap.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by sperkins

This post is more out of curiosity than anything else. I'm seeing a lot of stuff on YouTube regarding this swap. I think the Bimmerworld guys use this trans on their 435 race car (factory). I'm trying to go full track car with my 6sp E92. While rowing the gears, and doing the heel/toe dance is enjoyable, the 6sp manual isn't great for track stuff. In comparison, the paddle shifted, 8 speed seems 'sublime'. I did a quick search and couldn't find anyone fitting this trans into our cars.
So yea, just thinking this might be a pretty legit swap.

DomiWorks makes an adapter for the swap, so that part is covered. You'll need a custom driveshaft since the transmission is much longer, but that's honestly the easy part.

As for controlling the transmission, you have a few options:

CANTCU - probably the easiest and most practical solution.
TurboLamik - more complex, but another option.
Full OEM integration - figuring out the coding so the factory DME can communicate with the ZF8. This is the cleanest solution, but also by far the hardest.

Personally, I'd go the CANTCU route.

The ZF8 **should**, in theory, be able to handle an 8,600 RPM redline. I believe the transmission itself is mechanically capable of around 9,000 RPM, but I haven't verified that myself, so I can't say for certain.

Although you might need to run an aftermarket ecu that is supported by those TCU's, because some if not all don't work with the MSS60

DCT swap would be easier by margins / cost effective.

[sperkins]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

DomiWorks makes an adapter for the swap, so that part is covered. You'll need a custom driveshaft since the transmission is much longer, but that's honestly the easy part.

As for controlling the transmission, you have a few options:

CANTCU - probably the easiest and most practical solution.
TurboLamik - more complex, but another option.
Full OEM integration - figuring out the coding so the factory DME can communicate with the ZF8. This is the cleanest solution, but also by far the hardest.

Personally, I'd go the CANTCU route.

The ZF8 **should**, in theory, be able to handle an 8,600 RPM redline. I believe the transmission itself is mechanically capable of around 9,000 RPM, but I haven't verified that myself, so I can't say for certain.

Although you might need to run an aftermarket ecu that is supported by those TCU's, because some if not all don't work with the MSS60

DCT swap would be easier by margins / cost effective.

Everything is a PIA, isn’t it, LOL!
The ecu/controller swap is what is throwing me.
Hopefully, there is someone out there who’s successfully done this already (for our cars).
Thanks for the info.

[F4rmost]

MAXXEcu will control both and communicate with MSS60.

Gen2Race is what I would use.

I looked into this ECU for a theoretical LS swap cost comparison if the S65 went.

[nickauger]

not related to 8hp swap but i did a dct swap last winter and its way better on track now. I had same feeling for the 6 speed...

[sperkins]

Originally Posted by nickauger

not related to 8hp swap but i did a dct swap last winter and its way better on track now. I had same feeling for the 6 speed...

.. I may attempt this….
How did you get the electronics configured? Is there a plug and play harness available?
This is what would stop me from attempting a swap.

[DRLane]

Worthwhile listen with Andre of HPA on all the cool options for ZF8HP:

[nickauger]

Originally Posted by sperkins

.. I may attempt this….
How did you get the electronics configured? Is there a plug and play harness available?
This is what would stop me from attempting a swap.

on mechanical side you need: dct transmission, flexplate, driveshaft, diff, oil line, shifter,steering wheel with paddle shifter, most important is you need steering switch from dct and nothing else because they have specific internal resistance.

On wiring side, you remove 6speed harness and retrofit dct harness. You have couple wire to do. I have complete excel file that show every wire you need to swap.

On programation side: you need to get cluster,cas, coding for dct. You need to erase adaptation on dme ecu so it can see it is a dct now.
I've done everything with protool for coding.

It take me arround 1-2 day for mechanical side
1 day wiring
1 day coding and testing

[Scrippy]

Has anyone reached out to Mike @ BPM regarding this swap? I’d bet Mike could bang this out for ya if he was contracted to do so. I’d even bet he’s already thought of doing so.

[Track/S]

Installing ZF8 on an M should be punishable by imprisonment.

[jmeenach]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Has anyone reached out to Mike @ BPM regarding this swap? I’d bet Mike could bang this out for ya if he was contracted to do so. I’d even bet he’s already thought of doing so.

LOL he lives right down the street from me!

[jmeenach]

Originally Posted by sperkins

.. I may attempt this….
How did you get the electronics configured? Is there a plug and play harness available?
This is what would stop me from attempting a swap.

I would assume the DCT swap is relatively P&P. Sorry if I missed this earlier, but is there a reason you would prefer 8HP over DCT?

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by jmeenach

LOL he lives right down the street from me!

Bring’em some donuts and get this done!

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by jmeenach

I would assume the DCT swap is relatively P&P. Sorry if I missed this earlier, but is there a reason you would prefer 8HP over DCT?

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Has anyone reached out to Mike @ BPM regarding this swap? I’d bet Mike could bang this out for ya if he was contracted to do so. I’d even bet he’s already thought of doing so.

Yeah, the DCT swap is relatively P&P when you're doing it in a BMW chassis and powertrain combination that already has the appropriate DCT electronics and CAN integration. Once everything is physically plugged in, it's mainly coding/configuration.

It's a different story when you're putting a DCT into a BMW that was originally designed around the ZF8. The newer B58 cars are a good example. They came with the ZF8, and people have successfully done DCT swaps into them, but you're not necessarily getting the same factory integration. Depending on the chassis, you can end up needing an aftermarket TCU/CAN solution to make the DCT work properly.

Obviously it's an even bigger integration job when you put the BMW DCT behind a completely different engine or into a different platform, 2JZ, RB26, K24, LS3/6/7, etc.

The reason I'd prefer the 8HP isn't really because the DCT is inherently difficult to swap. It's because I honestly don't like the DCT that much lol.

The DCT is garbage IMO. It's great once you get on it, but it's really not a good transmission for normal street driving. And that's coming from me, someone who actually has a DCT and tracks a "stock" DCT.

Low-speed stuttering/jerkiness, weird gear logic, trash kickdown behavior, occasional shift delays, occasional random upshifts, and a lot of clutch management/slip at low speeds. Once you're driving hard, it's a completely different story and it works very well.

The other reason I prefer the 8HP is integration. You can absolutely control a DCT with a standalone and do all the same things, torque reduction, throttle blips, ignition/fuel cuts, etc. MaxxECU even has the BMW DCT CAN control built in along with CAN simulation.

The problem is that the BMW DCT relies heavily on the torque information and CAN data it's receiving from the engine and chassis, along with a bunch of different shift maps. So once you're outside of the exact OEM environment BMW designed it for, you have to start recreating a lot of that integration.

The 8HP is just much easier to integrate into different engines and platforms. There are a ton of aftermarket controllers and CAN solutions for it, and it's been used behind so many different engines that adapting it to a custom powertrain is much more of a solved problem. Its control strategy is also much less tied to reproducing BMW's specific DCT torque messaging and multiple shift-map strategy.

That's really the main reason I'd choose the 8HP. It's easier to integrate, especially when you're doing a custom powertrain, and I also prefer how it drives on the street.

The DCT is fucking awesome when you're beating on it. It's the part where you're crawling through traffic at 15 mph that makes me want to throw it in the trash lol.

Sorry for the off-tangent response lol, I went down this rabbit hole as I am still considering LS7 / DCT swapping my M3 lmao.