*Help* Potentially purchasing first BMW - appreciate a scrub of deal

[deuce0515]

Good morning,

https://www.bakermotorcompany.com/in...3em06p9p32743/

Looking at buying this for my wife. Never owned a BMW before. 20+ years of maintaining my own vehicles (tires, brakes, etc). Is that possible in the X7 series?

What are my extended warranty options with this vehicle?

Any and all inputs, warnings, negotiation suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA

[Janjohn]

At first glance the X7 seems in good condition. I don’t know if you can get an extended warranty from BMW since the dealership is not a BMW dealer (at least from the website). I don’t know how long the existing warranty is good. Make sure you and your wife test drive it and feel comfortable driving it.

Recent BMWs are not easy to work or do your own maintenance on. During the warranty, you should have all work done by experienced BMW techs at a BMW service and repair shop. I know I sound discouraging but I’d rather be blunt and save you some regret. Best Wishes for your next vehicle, whatever that may be.

[pz619]

I think it depends on what you are use to maintaining. If you are coming from a Toyota then I think BMW will be a pretty big change. If you are maintaining Audis/MB then you would already be used to the potential pain to come.

What kind of warranty is the car coming with? It looks like it should still be under factory warranty but you might want to see if you can get an extended warranty. While I don't believe the car is inherently unreliable, things can add up quickly if something goes wrong. Anyhow, good luck with your search and your potential new purchase!

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by deuce0515

Good morning,

https://www.bakermotorcompany.com/in...3em06p9p32743/

Looking at buying this for my wife. Never owned a BMW before. 20+ years of maintaining my own vehicles (tires, brakes, etc). Is that possible in the X7 series?

What are my extended warranty options with this vehicle?

Any and all inputs, warnings, negotiation suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA

The vehicle appears to be under factory warranty of 4 year / 50K miles so you should be able to get one backed by BMW. You can buy the BMW one up to almost expiration of the factory warranty.

There was a discount if it was under X years or X miles, but I don't remember off the top of my head. I think it's 1 year or 12K miles or something.

I never advise anyone to buy a 5 series and above because the depreciation hits them harder and also, they have a lot more tech which results in more sensors and more electrical things to go wrong. I call them electrical gremlins.

FCP Euro will be your best friend to buy replacement parts because it comes with lifetime replacement even oil changes are covered.

I recommend buying bimmerlink as this helps you monitor the car and check for codes/clear codes/etc.

You can buy bimmercode to code things in and out like disabling the legal warning on the screen, etc. It's a nice to have.

[Stradson]

Buy an e90

[pz619]

Originally Posted by Stradson

Buy an e90

I mean, who cross shops a e90 with a x7?

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by pz619

I mean, who cross shops a e90 with a x7?

That guy does apparently.

[maticCRO]

Originally Posted by Stradson

Buy an e90

Yeah because thats a really great car 20y later

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Stradson

Buy an e90

Yeah, it's so easy to replace the rod bearings and throttle actuators every few thousand miles. The great thing is that you'll get to see both the top and bottom of the V8 in great detail. It's a beautiful engine,particularly if you're a mechanic paid by the hour.

[JABCAT]

BMWs are no more difficult to maintain than any other vehicles. In fact, the oil changes & brake pad changes on my wife's X3MC & my M2 have been some of the easiest I've ever done.

[Janjohn]

If it were me, but it’s not, I might cross shop some other X7s and X5s at BMW dealerships that also do service and repair. I’d also ask lots of questions about OEM extended warranties. If you buy the X7 in your post, you’ll know what the extended warranty covers and how far it is to get it serviced.

[JABCAT]

A BMW extended warranty (service contract) doesn't have to be purchased from the selling dealership, nor does the vehicle have to be serviced at the selling dealership.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Yeah, it's so easy to replace the rod bearings and throttle actuators every few thousand miles. The great thing is that you'll get to see both the top and bottom of the V8 in great detail. It's a beautiful engine,particularly if you're a mechanic paid by the hour.

I did them in my 08 E90 M3. Close to 12 hours for the rod bearings, but I used stock bolts and that costs an hour. It was also my first time on an S65. I changed them at 60k as preventative maintenance. They still had life left. Some the car at 110k, guy I sold it to sold it at 130k and still the bearings that I installed. Did the throttle actuators as well and they took a little over 2 hours, installing one new one and one rebuilt. Never had another actuator issue. So I can’t agree with the “every few thousand miles” statement. More fair would be 75-100k miles, which for mist people might be once during their ownership.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I did them in my 08 E90 M3. Close to 12 hours for the rod bearings, but I used stock bolts and that costs an hour. It was also my first time on an S65. I changed them at 60k as preventative maintenance. They still had life left. Some the car at 110k, guy I sold it to sold it at 130k and still the bearings that I installed. Did the throttle actuators as well and they took a little over 2 hours, installing one new one and one rebuilt. Never had another actuator issue. So I can’t agree with the “every few thousand miles” statement. More fair would be 75-100k miles, which for mist people might be once during their ownership.

Three sets of actuators in 176,000 miles on mine, but rod bearings weren't replaced until after 176,000 miles, as preventative maintenance. Waiting to see the pix of the old bearings.

[pbonsalb]

You wrote above “every few thousand miles,” but the actual intervals seem OK to me for a 10+ year old engine that refactor 8400 rpm. You can buy rebuilt actuators for $350 each that may be more durable than new ones due to the use of metal gears. Lubricating the linkages may also reduce stress on them.

But the OP is interested in an X7, and it does not use the S65 engine, nor do the vast majority of E90 sold that another poster suggested as a simpler and more reliable car. The N52 is a pretty reliable engine. I have one in a 2012 X3 with 150k miles that I gave to a niece and maintain and repair. No issues yet. The N54 is much more work. I have one in a 2008 535xi wagon that I gave to a friend and maintain and repair. I have done a lot of preventative maintenance on it and would not recommend an E90 with the N54 unless they know the car history, have a reasonable independent mechanic and understand the issues.

The X7 the OP is interested in can be DIY maintained. It is likely beyond what he has done in the past, but you learn and improve your skills by doing more. The B58 would be the simplest engine option and what I would recommend. Personally I would buy one of the V8 options and both are reliable, but they are more complex to work on. The current N63 does not have the reliability problems of the early V8 turbo engines. And the S63 is also reliable. I maintain and repair my 2018 M5 and it is a complex car.

Definitely need a high level bidirectional scan tool with some service features like VTG reset, parking brake release, transmission temperature. And some tools the OP probably does not have, but that is often the case as a developing DIYer.

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Yeah, it's so easy to replace the rod bearings and throttle actuators every few thousand miles.

No one said anything about an E90 M3. Just an E90.

Originally Posted by pz619

I think it depends on what you are use to maintaining. If you are coming from a Toyota then I think BMW will be a pretty big change. If you are maintaining Audis/MB then you would already be used to the potential pain to come.

These are essentially my thoughts on the matter as well.

Originally Posted by JABCAT

BMWs are no more difficult to maintain than any other vehicles.

There may be some truth to this, but you'll be doing an absolute shit-ton more "maintenance" than any of the highly reliable brands unless you just run the car into the ground*. And that has a difficulty all itself.

*Who am I kidding? Most BMW owners have perfected running them into the ground and expect OP to be no different.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

There may be some truth to this, but you'll be doing an absolute shit-ton more "maintenance" than any of the highly reliable brands unless you just run the car into the ground*. And that has a difficulty all itself.

What's an "absolute shit-ton more maintenance"? My wife's X3MC has 50k mi & I haven't done any more maintenance than any of my other vehicles. My M2 has 34k miles and all maintenance has been free up to this point.


Fluid changes are relatively easy on the BMWs & the maintenance intervals are not crazy. Brakes are easy, spark plugs are easy (those are more frequent than my other vehicles), air filters - easy, etc.

Where is all the extra maintenance?

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Where is all the extra maintenance?

All the stuff you have no idea about or are forgetting/avoiding and unloading on the 2nd and 3rd owners like me.

Try these "maintenance" items I've had to do recently:

E36/8 - Repair seat sliders to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace radiator to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Add engine oil cooler to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace hood latch pull handle to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace crankshaft position sensor to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace oil filter housing gasket to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Rebuild VANOS actuator to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace brand emblems to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Remove mechanical radiator fan to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace (or bypass) the interior light dimmer switch to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Repair and reinforce the glove-box mounting support to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Adjust sticking HVAC blend door to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Rebuild/repair door lock cylinder to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace A/C expansion valve to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace driver's side door pull to address common failure mode.

E53 - Replace all 4 door handle carriers to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace all 34-feet of rear brake hard-line to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace oil filter housing gasket to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace cup-holder tangs to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace cup-holder roll-top cover to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace steering angle sensor to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace coolant expansion tank to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace brand emblems to address common failure mode.
E53 - Remove mechanical radiator fan to avoid common failure mode.
E53 - Replace center console audio display LCD and ribbon cable to address common failure mode.
E53 - Repair brake light housings to address common failure mode.

E91 - Replace oil filter housing gasket to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace valve cover to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace brand emblems to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace upper windshield trim to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace ignition coils to address common failure mode.
E91 - Repair exhaust leak by O2 sensors (with revised BMW hardware) to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace crankshaft position sensor to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace DME fan to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace water pump and thermostat to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace front windshield washer fluid pump to address common failure mode.
E91 - Replace rear windshield washer fluid pump to address common failure mode.

E90 M3 - Replace rod bearings to avoid common failure mode.
E90 M3 - Replace valve covers to address common failure mode.
E90 M3 - Replace VANOS hub covers to avoid common failure mode.
E90 M3 - Repair bell-housing and replace clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and crank angle sensor to address common failure mode.




And these I have yet to do but are on the docket:

E36/8 - Overhaul the windshield washer system to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Reinforce the rear diff mount and repair the trunk floor to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace passenger's side door pull to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace headlight housings to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Wire-tie oil pump nut to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace dead pedal to avoid common failure mode.

E53 - Replace lower oil pan gasket to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace transfer case actuator to avoid common failure mode.
E53 - Replace main dash display back-light bulb to address common failure mode.
E53 - Repair or replace the passenger side mirror to address common failure mode.

E91 - Replace TPMS sensors to address common failure mode.
E91 - Repair the passenger side mirror dip detent to address common failure mode.

E90 M3 - Replace throttle body actuators to avoid common failure mode.
E90 M3 - Replace main crank bearings to avoid common failure mode.
E90 M3 - Replace upper windshield trim to address common failure mode.
E90 M3 - Replace plenum-to-throttle-body boots to address common failure mode.



I want to stress that every item above is a "known issue" and "they all do that". It is absolutely bananas. There is a reason most of these cars are leased and most owners are scared to own these cars past the warranty period.

Owners like you who are blissfully ignorant are the reason second-hand BMWs are in such horrific condition that they need essentially a full restoration after ~8 years of ownership. Well, of course it's also BMWs fault for making such insanely unreliable vehicles.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

All the stuff you have no idea about or are forgetting/avoiding and unloading on the 2nd and 3rd owners like me.

Try these "maintenance" items I've had to do recently:

E36/8 - Replace radiator to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Add engine oil cooler to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace hood latch pull handle to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace crankshaft position sensor to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace oil filter housing gasket to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Rebuild VANOS actuator to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace brand emblems to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Remove mechanical radiator fan to avoid common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace (or bypass) the interior light dimmer switch to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Repair and reinforce the glove-box mounting support to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Adjust sticking HVAC blend door to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Rebuild/repair door lock cylinder to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace A/C expansion valve to address common failure mode.
E36/8 - Replace driver's side door pull to address common failure mode.

E53 - Replace all 4 door handle carriers to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace all 34-feet of rear brake hard-line to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace oil filter housing gasket to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace cup-holder tangs to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace cup-holder roll-top cover to address common failure mode.
E53 - Replace steering angle sensor to [...]

1. None of those are my vehicles, nor the vehicle the OP is considering. So there's nothing I'm "blissfully ignorant" about. I've been maintaining my vehicles for over 30 years.

2. Seems like most of those items listed are repairs due to manufacturing defects.

Fwiw - because you're jumping to all sorts of asumptions about me - with zero information. I think BMWs are very reliable vehicles. I've owned several, my in-laws have owned countless over the years, most of my wife's friends drive BMWs & nearly all of her colleagues as well. And with me being the "car guy", I'm sure I'd hear about any issue they have.

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

2. Seems like most of those items listed are repairs due to manufacturing defects.

Yah. No shit. Where do you think a huge factor in unreliability comes from?

The forum wigged out before I could edit my post above. I want to stress that every item in the post above is a "known issue" and "they all do that" and are thus "maintenance" items.

And you're here telling me BMWs are reliable.

[pbonsalb]

The OP is buying a new or pretty new BMW, an X7. It will be a while before it needs as much work as a 15-30 year old BMW.

[deuce0515]

Thanks everyone. We moved forward on the purchase. I have 1 year of factory warranty remaining. I watched multiple how to videos on brakes, oil, etc., those should be no problem, may need to be a scan tool and such.