BMW M Competition trim is being eliminated

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by g80_lucy_

It’s mindblowing that so many people on here are still debating if there will be a manual offered in the next generation of M2/3/4. BMW confirmed several months ago that the next generation wouldn’t be offered with 3 pedals.

The last G8X base to roll off that production line, is going to be worth a fortune. It’s the end of an era, and what a spectacular era it was.

I don't know, maybe we are expecting BMW to listen to its customers, like Porsche did?

[Janjohn]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I don't know, maybe we are expecting BMW to listen to its customers, like Porsche did?

Love it. I’ve always wanted a Porsche Cayenne or Macan but parts and service repairs even for used Porsches are expensive and finding competent repair other than the dealership is impossible.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I don't know, maybe we are expecting BMW to listen to its customers, like Porsche did?

I mean, but did they? Crisis-hit Porsche plunges to $1.1 billion quarterly loss. It seems weird for a company's sales to drop when it "listens to its customers".

Maybe they listened to the wrong customers? Perhaps they should've listened to the ones that don't enjoy being extorted and gouged in order to actually buy a car. But what do I know?

[Janjohn]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I mean, but did they? Crisis-hit Porsche plunges to $1.1 billion quarterly loss. It seems weird for a company's sales to drop when it "listens to its customers".

Maybe they listened to the wrong customers? Perhaps they should've listened to the ones that don't enjoy being extorted and gouged in order to actually buy a car. But what do I know?

Fortunately or maybe unfortunately both Porsche and BMWs have global customers and apparently it’s tough financially to provide electric, hybrid, gas, and diesel sports cars, sedans, SUVs to a upper middle class to rich clientele.

I’m completely surprised that in a communist regime that there are enough rich people to be such a high percentage of BMW or Porsche sales.
I’ve heard recently that China is in a major financial slump so that maybe if China is a large portion of Porsche’s customer base, that would explain some of that.
Secondly, Porsche AFAIK doesn’t produce any vehicles in the USA, so I would guess they’re paying tariffs.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by FastCoupe

The only situation in which I would ever buy an automatic sports car is if it is for the track and I am trying to shave every split second off my time that I can. These cars are so powerful already ever since the f8x that even pushing them to 50% of their capability on the street will put you in jail. For me it’s all about the driving experience now. There is absolutely no substitute for hitting your local mountain twisties while rowing your own gears constantly trying to hit that perfect shift. I’m a millennial. For me my M4 is quite literally a weekend in the twisties vehicle only it only sees about 1500 miles a year, but even if it was my daily, I would still get a manual. Me personally it’s hard to understand a true car enthusiast not wanting that third pedal. If it’s still hard to understand, maybe this will help. People talk about how EVs are fast but have no souls. Us manual enthusiast feel the same about ICE sports cars without that third pedal. But instead of the engine noise argument, is the computer doing all the work for you argument. The engagement with a clutch pedal is unlike anything you can ever experience while driving, and there’s no such thing as being a perfect 10 manual driver, it’s a constant improvement activity, which makes it even more fun. I absolutely love doing the “ricer flybys” with that perfectly tuned exhaust. You know, blipping the throttle with the clutch engaged as your backing up or pulling into a spot. I love everything about it lol. Eventually I’ll have a GT3 (the only upgrade from a M4 in my opinion) and it’s going to be very difficult for me to decide if I go with PDK or a manual specifically because at that point, I will want to track it and I think I will start obsessing over lap times. Who knows, but if it’s for the street, it better be manual in my eyes.

Coming from having had manuals for a good portion of my driving years in cars, I get the desire to have that level of connection. What I'm going to say now is from a sport bike perspective. I don't understand why manufacturers with their engineering prowess can't duplicate what is now pretty much common with sport bikes/superbikes. My 2022 S1000RR gives me the full manual experience with the use of the clutch as optional after I get the bike moving. It changes your riding experience when you can upshift AND downshift the trans without using the clutch. With upshifts I can be at partial throttle all the way to full throttle. Having the throttle pinned and clicking through the gears is just an experience one has to feel for themselves. With downshifts, I just have to be fully off the throttle and can click down in gears without using the clutch. If I want to go old school, I can use the clutch.

[Phillies8008]

I'm as big a 6MT fan as there is – absolutely love them. That being said, I can understand why people prefer to have an automatic. They're easier, more forgiving, and shift much faster these days than any human can. I mean, if you really care about 0-60 times, etc., automatics are where it's at.

If someone is buying a sports (or sporty) car that they're going to daily, I can get why they want an AT instead of a manual. It's not my preference, but that's okay – it doesn't have to be. I'm as saddened – maybe more – as the next guy that manual transmissions are disappearing from the landscape, but time marches on and at the end of the day auto manufacturers are going to sell what most of their customers want to buy. And unfortunately that's not a manual transmission. It's an automatic SUV or truck.

I don't think the 6MT is going away quite yet, but it's going to slowly but surely become a niche of a niche, probably to a greater degree than it has already.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

My 2022 S1000RR gives me the full manual experience with the use of the clutch as optional after I get the bike moving. It changes your riding experience when you can upshift AND downshift the trans without using the clutch.

You can shift without clutch with a car too but it isn't as easy. The valid shift points are smaller and shifting under full throttle isn't really possible. So... not really at all like a bike.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

You can shift without clutch with a car too but it isn't as easy. The valid shift points are smaller and shifting under full throttle isn't really possible. So... not really at all like a bike.

I know you can with a car. But you have to know the technique and be good at it. Also as you note, it's a small window on when that can happen in the RPM range.

With the quickshifters on modern superbikes, it doesn't matter where you are in the RPM range. You can do both up and downshifts without using the clutch. Plus the risk of something bad happening (ie breaking something/grinding gears) is very low. Plus if you want to go full old school, you can do that with using the clutch through all the shifts.

Just saying with the size of these automotive companies with the R&D dollars and the larger engineering staff, that nothing has been put out that even comes close to what is now common in superbikes....bikes you can buy straigtht off the showroom floor with this capability stock from the factory.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I don't know, maybe we are expecting BMW to listen to its customers, like Porsche did?

Did Porsche really listen to its customers? At this time it's still a lot easier to get a manual BMW. I can't get an allocation for a Carerra T, let alone a GT3 without paying a pretty hefty ADM (on top of Porsche's on price hikes). I can get a manual M2/M3/M4 tomorrow if I want

[kidaren]

its good that its gone

[wheelman8]

I think it’s a good idea to do away with the Competition package because it no longer represents any more than a trim level.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I mean, but did they? Crisis-hit Porsche plunges to $1.1 billion quarterly loss. It seems weird for a company's sales to drop when it "listens to its customers".

Maybe they listened to the wrong customers? Perhaps they should've listened to the ones that don't enjoy being extorted and gouged in order to actually buy a car. But what do I know?

Sure, anything can be oversimplified. Porsche did some things right and others not so right. The right thing is that they went back and offered manuals in all GT cars, and went back to 6 cylinder ditching 4-cylinder 718 GTS. Sold a lot of them at high prices despite criminally low allocations.

The not-so-right thing Porsche did was its aggressive attempt to create a high-end EV market, which was not a Porsche specific thing (think Mercedes.) They underestimated Porsche buyers' general reluctance to EVs, and their best-selling model, Macan, turned out to be a huge POS riddled with technical issues when it became an EV. High prices are a factor, but people still buy 911s, 718s, and Cayennes. Why? Because they see the value in them. As for $100K Macan EVs? Not so much.

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

Did Porsche really listen to its customers? At this time it's still a lot easier to get a manual BMW. I can't get an allocation for a Carerra T, let alone a GT3 without paying a pretty hefty ADM (on top of Porsche's on price hikes). I can get a manual M2/M3/M4 tomorrow if I want

Not sure where you are located but Northeast, all the GT engine variants are selling close to MSRP now (actually since earlier this year). Not the crazy market it used to be. And dealers have allocations for Ts at MSRP. You can't get manual M3s new here, barely any allocation. M2 and M4, sure.

[Janjohn]

Just a wild thought here but someone in the German sports car industry could design a paddle shift with an optional clutch pedal in the usual spot. In one setting you can use the paddles with a clutch pedal and in the other setting the clutch pedal would be deactivated. I’m just a peasant with a cool car but this is the 21 century and we’ll be headed to Mars so can’t some brilliant engineer with AI, design that?

[alexk780]

Interesting, I would have not expect this to be true. Considering I am not a fan of the G80 platform at all. I am also ok with this haha

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by Janjohn

Just a wild thought here but someone in the German sports car industry could design a paddle shift with an optional clutch pedal in the usual spot. In one setting you can use the paddles with a clutch pedal and in the other setting the clutch pedal would be deactivated. I’m just a peasant with a cool car but this is the 21 century and we’ll be headed to Mars so can’t some brilliant engineer with AI, design that?

Koenigsegg had a fake manual complete with a fake shifter that apparently worked well and emulated the real deal convincingly (including letting you stall). I would probably be okay with such a setup, but doesn't seem like the industry is otherwise interested.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...nigsegg-cc850/

[nooners]

While i understand wagons haven’t been ordered with large numbers.. we are now seeing BMW announce no competition series. Which will make customers think of either M3 or M3 touring. There is no M3 competition to think about anymore.

While I am biased, I want a M3 touring. Why wouldn’t BMW consider a M3 & M3 touring now?

[y2kBeamaBoy]

If there isn’t a manual this brand for enthusiasts will substantially die. I am excited to see what they do since the comps will be the base now.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by y2kBeamaBoy

If there isn’t a manual this brand for enthusiasts will substantially die. I am excited to see what they do since the comps will be the base now.

It really won't because no one else is going to have manuals in the coming years either. I love a manual as much, if not more, than anyone else, but they're going the way of the Dodo. It is what it is.

This is why I pulled the trigger on a Z4 before production ends in March – I won't ever see a BMW 6MT roadster again, and I'll keep this one forever. At least I'll always have a manual, regardless of how soon they completely disappear.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by y2kBeamaBoy

If there isn’t a manual this brand for enthusiasts will substantially die. I am excited to see what they do since the comps will be the base now.

Realistically where else can one go? Porsche barely has them. And everything else is more boy racer than what most bmw owners would want.

I do think it would be wise of bmw to try to capitalize on that vacuum that exists in the 75-150k range. But thus far they don’t seem interested

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by y2kBeamaBoy

If there isn’t a manual this brand for enthusiasts will substantially die. I am excited to see what they do since the comps will be the base now.

Hopefully they go back to an M car just being the M car and that's it, none of this 'levels of M' marketing garbaggio.

[UPSROD]

Since I have a 2013 E92 ZCP I couldn't care less about any of this!

[Boltar]

Its funny that people still discuss stuff thats been decided 10 years ago. You guys really should catch up with what bmw is planning. The manual is dead as can be. If, as customers, you wanna influence and save something.. In just a few years from now, you would be happy if your next bimmer has a steering wheel..