Paragon Performance BBK from EAS

[BimmerRob08]

Came across this kit as I'm looking to get a BBK. I don't know much about them. Has anyone ran these? Good/bad, etc.?



https://europeanautosource.com/colle...kit-bmw-e9x-m3

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Came across this kit as I'm looking to get a BBK. I don't know much about them. Has anyone ran these? Good/bad, etc.?



https://europeanautosource.com/colle...kit-bmw-e9x-m3

Lottsa post, impressions...try a

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

Lottsa post, impressions...try a

Thanks pal.

[crazydrummer]

Yes they are excellent. Couple big threads on them. Been running them hard almost 2 years now.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by crazydrummer

Yes they are excellent. Couple big threads on them. Been running them hard almost 2 years now.

Which size front rotor did you go with? I’m running Apex 18” 22 offset. I’ll check their template. On their page it says stud conversion is required at the bottom of the BBK link. Did you have to convert?

[Hi Rev V8]

I installed the Paragon BBK in April (370 mm, Winmax P3 and ENP). I am extremely pleased with this kit. Godfrey at Paragon was excellent. Highly recommended.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by Hi Rev V8

I installed the Paragon BBK in April (370 mm, Winmax P3 and ENP). I am extremely pleased with this kit. Godfrey at Paragon was excellent. Highly recommended.

Cool. But what is the Winnmax P3 and ENP you mentioned?

[pirategenes]

I got the 378mm front kit installed last year and have 15 track days on it so far. It's excellent. I shared my fitment results on this site and provided to Paragon, which they list here with the kit:
https://paragonbrakes.com/track-perf...m-coupe-front/

Here's details on the pad compounds they offer:
https://paragonbrakes.com/paragon-brake-pad-compounds/

I run the R5 on track and P3 on street. Both are excellent. Happy to answer specific questions if you have any.

Cheers!

[BimmerRob08]

Excellent. Thanks.

[Hi Rev V8]

Sorry for the acronym. ENP is electroless nickel plating. Lots of BBKs are painted and if you track your car this will discolor and chip off. The standard Paragon BBK is hard anodized, which is very good. They also offer ENP. This is an option that you only get with high end competition BBK from AP Racing and Alcon. If you spill brake fluid while bleeding the ENP is super durable.

Paragon also has stainless steel pistons with titanium nitride coating to reduce friction. Again this is only an option with high end BBKs. I also got titanium shims with the kit to fit between the brake pads and pistons to reduce heat transfer. Another nice feature.

The Winmax P3 pads are a very good street/occasional track pad. Their other race pads are very good. For the money I think the Paragon BBK offers quite amazing value.

[Johnny E92]

Originally Posted by Hi Rev V8

I installed the Paragon BBK in April (370 mm, Winmax P3 and ENP). I am extremely pleased with this kit. Godfrey at Paragon was excellent. Highly recommended.

I have the 378mm F&R kits, but with the Alcon calipers and Winmax P3 pads.

Yet to get it fitted(work keeps getting in the way urrg) but it’s a top bit of kit just looking at it.

And I can second the comment that Godfrey at Paragon is very helpful and responded quickly to my email questions etc.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by Johnny E92

I have the 378mm F&R kits, but with the Alcon calipers and Winmax P3 pads.

Yet to get it fitted(work keeps getting in the way urrg) but it’s a top bit of kit just looking at it.

And I can second the comment that Godfrey at Paragon is very helpful and responded quickly to my email questions etc.

I think you guys got me sold. Hope to get them soon then.

[Johnny E92]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

I think you guys got me sold. Hope to get them soon then.

And I should add that the delivery was only a couple of weeks from placement of order and for such a large heavy bit of kit, even to my place in Australia, was a remarkably good price.

Its well packed, there are boxes inside of boxes etc here’s a picture of the complete F&R kits as delivered.

[M3SQRD]

A big downside to the Paragon front brake kit is the use of an 18 mm thick brake pad. Brake temperature management becomes a bigger concern because higher pad temperatures can increase the pad wear rate. Make sure you get into a habit of checking on the remaining thickness of the inner pad.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

A big downside to the Paragon front brake kit is the use of an 18 mm thick brake pad. Brake temperature management becomes a bigger concern because higher pad temperatures can increase the pad wear rate. Make sure you get into a habit of checking on the remaining thickness of the inner pad.

Interesting. So I’m guessing with these performance BBK, brake sensor wire won’t connect so I’ll have to tie them up and away. 18mm is pretty stout though, isn’t it? I won’t be doing much tracking unfortunately, just weekend worrier.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Interesting. So I’m guessing with these performance BBK, brake sensor wire won’t connect so I’ll have to tie them up and away. 18mm is pretty stout though, isn’t it? I won’t be doing much tracking unfortunately, just weekend worrier.

No brake sensor.

18 mm isn’t thick for track/racing calipers. The AP Racing Pro5000R CP9668 front caliper uses 25 mm thick pads and the PFC Z54 front caliper uses 28 mm thick pads.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

No brake sensor.

18 mm isn’t thick for track/racing calipers. The AP Racing Pro5000R CP9668 front caliper uses 25 mm thick pads and the PFC Z54 front caliper uses 28 mm thick pads.

Damn, Inddont realize they were than much thinner. I used to have the older APracing BBK front and back, which the calipers look like the Peragon ones but had the floating strap drive type rotor design. Ended up having a brake applied vibration that was pretty violent at around 86mph seemed to be the sweet spot. I did all sorts of testing and even changed out calipers, rotors. Etc. with the assistance of Stilen at the time where I purchased them. I believe was a gyroscopic precession issue when the brakes where applied. Ended up selling them and went back to stock. No vibration now. I do remember the pads where much thicker. How would these compare to OEM pads and if just mainly street use?

[pirategenes]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Damn, Inddont realize they were than much thinner. I used to have the older APracing BBK front and back, which the calipers look like the Peragon ones but had the floating strap drive type rotor design. Ended up having a brake applied vibration that was pretty violent at around 86mph seemed to be the sweet spot. I did all sorts of testing and even changed out calipers, rotors. Etc. with the assistance of Stilen at the time where I purchased them. I believe was a gyroscopic precession issue when the brakes where applied. Ended up selling them and went back to stock. No vibration now. I do remember the pads where much thicker. How would these compare to OEM pads and if just mainly street use?

Which pads did you get?

For reference, with my 378mm Paragon front kit I got 9 track days (4-5 15-20min sessions per day) out of the R5 pads and still had >11mm thickness left. Of course this will depend on track layout, driving style, ducting, and other factors but I think you will be totally fine if using mostly on the street. If I was mostly street use, I'd select either the P2 or P3 compound, depending on your tolerance for trade off between brake dust and performance.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Damn, Inddont realize they were than much thinner. I used to have the older APracing BBK front and back, which the calipers look like the Peragon ones but had the floating strap drive type rotor design. Ended up having a brake applied vibration that was pretty violent at around 86mph seemed to be the sweet spot. I did all sorts of testing and even changed out calipers, rotors. Etc. with the assistance of Stilen at the time where I purchased them. I believe was a gyroscopic precession issue when the brakes where applied. Ended up selling them and went back to stock. No vibration now. I do remember the pads where much thicker. How would these compare to OEM pads and if just mainly street use?

My e46 M3 uses an AP Racing front caliper since 2004 that’s virtually identical to the Paragon PA035 caliper and it also uses an 18 mm thick pad. I always go to the track with a brand new set of backup brake pads so I wouldn’t run out of pad material for the track and street ride home. I’ve changed a lot of pads in the paddock since 2004 due to the 18 mm thick pad. I believe the Paragon PA025 rear caliper uses a 16.5 mm thick pad. Also, just as an FYI, Paragon rotors and calipers (PA035 and PA025) are manufactured in China which explains the low cost compared to other track/race brake kits.

Did you try a different caliper adapter bracket while chasing the vibration? It could create a radial offset and/or a non-coplaner caliper with the rotor surface. Just for troubleshooting, did you try swapping the left and right rotors? Not sure how you’d get a gyroscopic precession effect with the braking system? Maybe with a mounting hat that wasn’t rotationally concentric with, and parallel to, the hub? However, the same mounting hat design, even with the strap drive mounting scheme, is used on the left and right rotors. I wonder what would happen if binding occurred on some straps on one side of the rotor and then overconstrained the rotor from expanding symmetrically? I’m unaware of any other e9x M owners that had/have the same issue as yours with the use of strap drive rotors but that doesn’t mean others may have experienced it.

How does the Paragon PA035 caliper 18 mm thick pad compare to stock pads? The surface area is considerably larger than the stock pad which can reduce pad temperature and decrease pad wear rate compared to stock. For primarily street use with a street pad compound, the Paragon 18 mm thick pad should have superior wear rate compared to the stock 19.5 mm thick pad due to the PA035 pad having more surface area. You’ll need to be careful with dirty pistons from street and track use because Paragon calipers use internal seals and internal dust boots. Internal dust seals can withstand track use better than external dust seals but the can still get damaged/melted. I’d still strongly recommend cleaning the pistons with a rag & a waterless car cleaning product as well as use compressed air (blowing air only laterally onto the pistons) before compressing pistons back into the caliper. Furthermore, I personally will not drive my cars with brake kits on roads pretreated with brine/salt and when roads still have salt on them after a snow storm, if this applies to you.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by pirategenes

Which pads did you get?

For reference, with my 378mm Paragon front kit I got 9 track days (4-5 15-20min sessions per day) out of the R5 pads and still had >11mm thickness left. Of course this will depend on track layout, driving style, ducting, and other factors but I think you will be totally fine if using mostly on the street. If I was mostly street use, I'd select either the P2 or P3 compound, depending on your tolerance for trade off between brake dust and performance.

Man I honestly don’t remember because it was about 10 years ago. lol. Which ever pads it came with at the time.

[pirategenes]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Man I honestly don’t remember because it was about 10 years ago. lol. Which ever pads it came with at the time.

Oh sorry I meant what are you considering for the Paragon kit? It's probably worth thinking about your use case to decide on which pads to get. I think if I was exclusively using on the street, I'd go for the P2's.

[BimmerRob08]

Right, just street and the occasional day of pushing it on some mountain switch backs, etc. I may have the opportunity to track it in the future depending on where I’ll be moving to, which is in the works. But if that ends up being the case, I’d get me some trackpads then.