Brade Pad Review Chat

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

100% agree with your assessment on the DTC-70. The aren't initial bite heavy versus the Ferrodo 3.12 and it's a progressive pad in my eyes.

In regards to DTC-60 I think I found them for you....Hawk doesn't make it easy.

https://www.hawkperformance.com/pads/Hb109d-980

I looked up your front kit and looked for the pad shape. Hawk sets up their part numbers pretty logically......

Hb109d-980 109 shape/profile, letter is the compound and the last 3 digits are the thickness. If this doesn't work if you contact them and give them the image of your pad shape and dimensions they can usually hunt it down.

Hope this helps, Rubin.

After trying the Hawk DTC70/DCT60 on my e46 M3 track car in 2004, I then tried PFC 01, 03 and 05 compounds. I’ve been a PFC guy since then. I’ve since tried PFC 11, 13, 15 and 39. Haven’t tried their latest 331 and 332 compounds. If I can’t get the PFC compound I’m looking for, my backup race pads, listed in order of the next preference, are:
1. Cobalt F/R XR1/XR1 or F/R XR1/XR2
2. Carbotech F/R XP20/XP20
3. Hawk F/R DTC70/DTC60

Back in 2004, I believe they only offered the DTC70 in the HB109 pad profile. DTC60/DTC60 is an option now on the CP5555 but I don’t believe they make pads for the PFC calipers Z54 (PFC 7954 28 mm thk pad), Z45 (PFC 7852), Z31 front (PFC 7861, 4 pads/caliper) and Z31 rear (PFC 7863, 4 pads/caliper).

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by former 240 s14

Are you running any cooling mods for the front brakes? I noticed on tight tracks that's a must on stock brakes. I would wager you get 2-3 more sessions of brake life if you do and less fade during your stints.

Well

Installed a set of paragon 370 kit and well.....Imma need cooling lol

The dtc70 and rotor paint/caliper temp strips already showing that in well up in the temp range.....

This after one race weekend at summit raceway when I did VRG turkey bowl 2 months ago (7 session over 2 days. 1 qualy and 6 races total....races are about 20 mins....and in November so temps were down.)

The 18mm pads are already showing severe signs of degradation and delaminate. In all honesty, the stock pad is a massive pad with a much deeper annulus than either the 18 or 25mm pad in the alcon/AP kits.

I probably would have been better off with just a set of 2 piece stock rotors (paragon or...) with cooling....

[amg6975]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Well

Installed a set of paragon 370 kit and well.....Imma need cooling lol

The dtc70 and rotor paint/caliper temp strips already showing that in well up in the temp range.....

This after one race weekend at summit raceway when I did VRG turkey bowl 2 months ago (7 session over 2 days. 1 qualy and 6 races total....races are about 20 mins....and in November so temps were down.)

The 18mm pads are already showing severe signs of degradation and delaminate. In all honesty, the stock pad is a massive pad with a much deeper annulus than either the 18 or 25mm pad in the alcon/AP kits.

I probably would have been better off with just a set of 2 piece stock rotors (paragon or...) with cooling....

The advantage of the BBK is the extra thickness of the rotors. I do think cooling is almost a must on these things no matter what you do but I'm surprised you're having issues at Summit.

Did you remove the dust shields? DSC fully off?

[RalliartRsX]

With the rotor diameter and thickness I too was caught off guard when I began winter prep and all the temp paint markers pointed to running well into the upper range of temp...

370x36 (actually measures thickness is like 35.8 out of the box...I have a pic as proof and I'm pretty sure the ap rotors measure the same). And the entire premise behind the BBK for me was to run without brake cooling at this weight.....but maybe I misjudged. I still do think the smaller annulus pad (54 vs i think 6x for than stock?) isn't helping....

So yeah. The DTC 70 is crumbling at the edges.....

3570 with me, gassed up at race weight. No aero so brake zones are pushed back maybe 1 marker (100 feet) from where I think they should be. Tickling 150mph entry into 1 according to the aim

So it does get head a steam as I can pretty much nail turn 10 consistently

To answer your question
1) No DSC/traction control (fully turned off)
2) stock dust/heat shield alt all 4s

It's a basic setup; redshift SA, v730 275, cage, stock power and BBK. Low to mid consistent 1:22 if not playing in traffic for almost 20 mins. These v730 stay consistent

[former 240 s14]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

To answer your question
1) No DSC/traction control (fully turned off)
2) stock dust/heat shield alt all 4s

It's a basic setup; redshift SA, v730 275, cage, stock power and BBK. Low to mid consistent 1:22 if not playing in traffic for almost 20 mins. These v730 stay consistent

Get rid of those dust shields for sure and look at some cooling plates for the front. Hard motorsports makes some but Burkhart Engineering in Germany makes a set of Carbon Fiber units for cheaper than the hards!

Hope this helps!

Rubin

[heath27]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

With the rotor diameter and thickness I too was caught off guard when I began winter prep and all the temp paint markers pointed to running well into the upper range of temp...

370x36 (actually measures thickness is like 35.8 out of the box...I have a pic as proof and I'm pretty sure the ap rotors measure the same). And the entire premise behind the BBK for me was to run without brake cooling at this weight.....but maybe I misjudged. I still do think the smaller annulus pad (54 vs i think 6x for than stock?) isn't helping....

So yeah. The DTC 70 is crumbling at the edges.....

3570 with me, gassed up at race weight. No aero so brake zones are pushed back maybe 1 marker (100 feet) from where I think they should be. Tickling 150mph entry into 1 according to the aim


So it does get head a steam as I can pretty much nail turn 10 consistently

To answer your question
1) No DSC/traction control (fully turned off)
2) stock dust/heat shield alt all 4s

It's a basic setup; redshift SA, v730 275, cage, stock power and BBK. Low to mid consistent 1:22 if not playing in traffic for almost 20 mins. These v730 stay consistent

Might be worth trying the pfc 331/332 combo

Two years ago on my stoptechs, running similar low 122/high 121s- stock other than v730/coilovers/stoptechs/full weight I would get 5ish sessions from a set of hawks. I would get slightly more from pfc 08s but you could still tell they were overheated. I am no where near the max speed you're hitting into turn one- I am usually around 140mph. End of this season I was on the new pfc combo and they have three days at summit and 2 vir. Still have over 1/2 pad left to start this season on.

Also no brake cooling yet and trimmed the front dust shield but still there

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

With the rotor diameter and thickness I too was caught off guard when I began winter prep and all the temp paint markers pointed to running well into the upper range of temp...

370x36 (actually measures thickness is like 35.8 out of the box...I have a pic as proof and I'm pretty sure the ap rotors measure the same). And the entire premise behind the BBK for me was to run without brake cooling at this weight.....but maybe I misjudged. I still do think the smaller annulus pad (54 vs i think 6x for than stock?) isn't helping....

So yeah. The DTC 70 is crumbling at the edges.....

3570 with me, gassed up at race weight. No aero so brake zones are pushed back maybe 1 marker (100 feet) from where I think they should be. Tickling 150mph entry into 1 according to the aim

So it does get head a steam as I can pretty much nail turn 10 consistently

To answer your question
1) No DSC/traction control (fully turned off)
2) stock dust/heat shield alt all 4s

It's a basic setup; redshift SA, v730 275, cage, stock power and BBK. Low to mid consistent 1:22 if not playing in traffic for almost 20 mins. These v730 stay consistent

The stock pad width is 109 mm and pad radial depth (PRD) is 68 mm. The PFC 7790 used by the Paragon 035 caliper has a width of 152 mm and a PRD of 54 mm. Paragon (PFC 7790) pad has more surface area.

The rotor radius used in calculating brake bias is Rmean = OR - PRD/2. So the stock Rmean = 370/2 - 68/2 = 151 mm (5.94 in).

The paragon Rmean = 370/2 - 54/2 = 158 mm (6.22 in). So the paragon front brake kit has a ~5% larger Rmean (torque = Rmean x caliper clamping force) and the clamping force distributed over a larger surface area (heat transfer is passed over a larger area which should improve wear rates). The 54 mm PRD is not an issue relative to the stock 68 mm PRD. The PFC 7790 pad is widely used in professional race series including IndyCar in the 90s and early 00s. Paragon caliper total piston area is 7.77 in^2 and stock is 8.76 in^2. So

Paragon torque = 6.22 x 7.77 x Pline = 48.33 x Pline

Stock torque = 5.94 x 8.76 x Pline = 52.38 x Pline

Torque ratio = Paragon Torque / Stock torque = 48.33 x Pline / (52.38 x Pline) = 0.92 - stock torque is 8% higher. Paragon brake bias depends on the rear caliper, rotor diameter and PRD that’s currently being used.