Valvetronic Designs X-Pipe Question

[cooll_m3]

Hello everyone, recently I installed a full exhaust system from Bomiz on my 2011 E92 M3, fully catless of course, and call me a fraud or wimp all you like, it turns out I am not about that catless life. My car smelled horrible and threw a new code and went into limp mode every day. I threw in the towel and put the stock x-pipe back on after 4 days.

I was looking at the Valvetronic Designs BMW M3 E9x V2 Midpipe with dual 200 cell cats and resonators because I still want that beautiful V8 sound without all the issues. I was wondering if anyone had this system and knew if the car will still throw engine codes or not. Stock I think the car has 2 400 cell primary cats and 2 200 cell secondary cats. I am also interested if the car still sounds good because I have seen a couple videos of the system and it does sound nice but how much of that symphony do I lose to 2 cats. I am ok with losing some volume and a little stink but some smell masking would also be nice.

I am aware that a tune can clear engine codes but I am just not really interested in one at the moment. Mostly I am just wondering if the x-pipe with 2 200 cell cats in-between the 02 sensors will still cause engine codes or not, thank you guys.

[spammysammich]

You cannot modify the catalytic converter system and expect the car to be happy without some sort of tuning intervention. Some people might have lucked out but eventually a modded system will fall out of the stock tuning parameters for normal operation. Just a matter of time.

[kevin @ eas]

Generally speaking 200 cel cats arent enough to keep the CEL off without a tune. Some of the high quality cats like GESI or HJS might keep it off but I would anticipate a CEL with a high flow catted midpipe.

[cooll_m3]

Originally Posted by kevin @ eas

Generally speaking 200 cel cats arent enough to keep the CEL off without a tune. Some of the high quality cats like GESI or HJS might keep it off but I would anticipate a CEL with a high flow catted midpipe.

This might be a dumb question, but if the cats don't solve the engine light issue and the car still smells like garbage why would anyone ever buy this system with 2 200 cell cats?

[Redd]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

This might be a dumb question, but if the cats don't solve the engine light issue and the car still smells like garbage why would anyone ever buy this system with 2 200 cell cats?

Because it's about that catless life.

[FatCat0520]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

This might be a dumb question, but if the cats don't solve the engine light issue and the car still smells like garbage why would anyone ever buy this system with 2 200 cell cats?

Some states, like California, have laws requiring Cats to exist. I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me don't this, but I believe this is the reason. The fine here is 1k for a first offense, 2k second, and so on and so forth.

Really stupid laws

[GOFAST M3]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

This might be a dumb question, but if the cats don't solve the engine light issue and the car still smells like garbage why would anyone ever buy this system with 2 200 cell cats?

Personal preference. I prefer highflow cats, less smell and a less raspy, deeper tone from the exhaust. I have never liked the sound of a catless modern car.

[cooll_m3]

Originally Posted by GOFAST M3

Personal preference. I prefer highflow cats, less smell and a less raspy, deeper tone from the exhaust. I have never liked the sound of a catless modern car.

So I was actually going to ask about this next. It sounds like the only way to make sure I am not barraged with engine codes every day and limp mode coming on every five minutes is to get a tune. So then the only issue I have is smell because the smell is as bad as they say it is and it doesn't get better. Will the 200-cell cats actually make that much of a difference in smell? I assume there will still be some stink but will enough be removed that like at a stop inside the car, I don't feel like I'm getting tear-gassed?

[spammysammich]

I’m not sure about 200 cell cats but I went from Dinan stage 2 catless to Evolve test pipes with stock x-pipe and could not be happier. Greatly reduced exhaust smell, definitely not stock. But once warmed up the exhaust smell is something I can live with even if I’m loading the trunk with the car idling. When it was catless my clothing would reek for hours of exhaust if I was standing at the rear of the car for more than a few seconds. You have to get a tune to code out the CEL, you might even damage the O2 sensors if you don’t get a tune. There are great tuners out there that can even improve drivability. There’s no really good reason to run modified exhaust without a tune.

[cooll_m3]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

I’m not sure about 200 cell cats but I went from Dinan stage 2 catless to Evolve test pipes with stock x-pipe and could not be happier. Greatly reduced exhaust smell, definitely not stock. But once warmed up the exhaust smell is something I can live with even if I’m loading the trunk with the car idling. When it was catless my clothing would reek for hours of exhaust if I was standing at the rear of the car for more than a few seconds. You have to get a tune to code out the CEL, you might even damage the O2 sensors if you don’t get a tune. There are great tuners out there that can even improve drivability. There’s no really good reason to run modified exhaust without a tune.

Ok so I was waiting to see if anyone else would offer some input but I guess not.

But from what you guys have said so far, it sounds like the best course of action is to go to a dual 200 CEL cat x-pipe for reduced smell and get a tune for the engine codes. I think I am going to get the x-pipe from valvetronic and the tune from ginatani. I know gintani is one of the more expensive options but people say they really know what they are doing and they are easy to install.

Also, if I am planning on getting an intake I assume I should be doing that not rather than after the tune is installed, or can I email gintani and update my tune as new mods come in? Let me know.

[drwankel]

Before you buy that x pipe, I would highly encourage you to read my review of it. In short, I wouldn't touch it, especially for the reasons you want it.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1859463

[cooll_m3]

Originally Posted by drwankel

Before you buy that x pipe, I would highly encourage you to read my review of it. In short, I wouldn't touch it, especially for the reasons you want it.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1859463

Oh wow, maybe I will get another Bomiz x-pipe system with 2 200 CEL cats then because I do like the sound of the catless system I ordered, it was mainly the smell and the engine codes that drove me away. I was also completely unaware that there were different standards and qualities of cats.

Bomiz has a massive sale right now so I could probably get the x-pipe with 2 200 CEL cats in the secondary position for the same as I could sell my current system. Then I could control the smell a little, avoid the whole situation you had, and get the same great sound.

Is this a good plan or is there more I should be aware of?

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

Oh wow, maybe I will get another Bomiz x-pipe system with 2 200 CEL cats then because I do like the sound of the catless system I ordered, it was mainly the smell and the engine codes that drove me away. I was also completely unaware that there were different standards and qualities of cats.

Bomiz has a massive sale right now so I could probably get the x-pipe with 2 200 CEL cats in the secondary position for the same as I could sell my current system. Then I could control the smell a little, avoid the whole situation you had, and get the same great sound.

Is this a good plan or is there more I should be aware of?

Just make sure you understand exactly what high flow cats are in any exhaust product you are buying. Quality of the cat is more important than cell count at controlling smell.

If the company will not disclose what brand and model cats they are using, you should assume the reason is because they used something cheap. Any company using HJS or GESI cats would proudly mention it due to the cost.

The Bomiz stuff is made in China. Looking at the Black Friday sale you mentioned, the quad resonated xpipe is $649 and the dual resonated dual 200 cell high flow cat version is $749.

How good do you expect the cats to be if they only warrant a price increase of $50 dollars per cat? I would not expect those cats to do much. A quality cat will cost the exhaust manufacturer several hundred dollars per unit.

[cooll_m3]

Originally Posted by drwankel

Just make sure you understand exactly what high flow cats are in any exhaust product you are buying. Quality of the cat is more important than cell count at controlling smell.

If the company will not disclose what brand and model cats they are using, you should assume the reason is because they used something cheap. Any company using HJS or GESI cats would proudly mention it due to the cost.

The Bomiz stuff is made in China. Looking at the Black Friday sale you mentioned, the quad resonated xpipe is $649 and the dual resonated dual 200 cell high flow cat version is $749.

How good do you expect the cats to be if they only warrant a price increase of $50 dollars per cat? I would not expect those cats to do much. A quality cat will cost the exhaust manufacturer several hundred dollars per unit.

I sent them an email yesterday before you replied asking about where they get their cats from. In the likely situation they are Chinese and garbage, is there an x-pipe system that you know of and can recommended with good quality cats that still has a great sound.

Looking at other universal cats I am seeing that Magnaflow may also be not Chinese? Correct me if I'm wrong but they are significantly cheaper than the GESI and HJS ones and are labeled as OEM, California, and Carb Compliant.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

I sent them an email yesterday before you replied asking about where they get their cats from. In the likely situation they are Chinese and garbage, is there an x-pipe system that you know of and can recommended with good quality cats that still has a great sound.

The one I have been heavily looking at is this one:

https://europerformance.com.au/shop/...om-resonators/

DrFerry used this one had had high praise for it. Keep in mind the cost is in Australian Dollars.

When I asked about it, they said they used GESI cats, but this was over a year ago.

The cost is significantly higher due to them being made by hand in Australia and the cost of the cats. I'm not aware of any worthwhile options that have the forward X available other than bimmerworld, and that one is basically impossible to get new.

Currently I am running a stock x pipe with test pipes welded on. The welded part is very important because the clams that come with the test pipe kits always leak. (Flawed design).

[cooll_m3]

Originally Posted by drwankel

The one I have been heavily looking at is this one:

https://europerformance.com.au/shop/...om-resonators/

DrFerry used this one had had high praise for it. Keep in mind the cost is in Australian Dollars.

When I asked about it, they said they used GESI cats, but this was over a year ago.

The cost is significantly higher due to them being made by hand in Australia and the cost of the cats. I'm not aware of any worthwhile options that have the forward X available other than bimmerworld, and that one is basically impossible to get new.

Currently I am running a stock x pipe with test pipes welded on. The welded part is very important because the clams that come with the test pipe kits always leak. (Flawed design).

Do you think it would be worth while to just buy a set of 200 CEL cats from magnaflow or GESI and have a shop weld them into the x-pipe I already own that has no cats. Because like I said earlier I already like the sound of mine and I am actually looking for more volume because I am also running the stock x pipe at the moment with no test pipes. So really I am just looking for some slight smell control from the x-pipe I bought.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

Do you think it would be worth while to just buy a set of 200 CEL cats from magnaflow or GESI and have a shop weld them into the x-pipe I already own that has no cats. Because like I said earlier I already like the sound of mine and I am actually looking for more volume because I am also running the stock x pipe at the moment with no test pipes. So really I am just looking for some slight smell control from the x-pipe I bought.

If you are happy with the sound of your current X pipe, that might be the way to go.

Alternatively- you could throw test pipes on the stock x pipe. It will give you the increase in volume from the stock x pipe and the secondaries will still keep the smell in check.

[GinTonic]

I've seen a lot of guys run Gesi 10025 cats which can be had for about $300 each. Plus Gesi is a reputable brand.

The Gesi cats will cost you some coin but its worth it to get rid of the horrible smell. I'm running stock x pipe with test pipes and secondaries intact and can't imagine the car being catless and smelling anything like I do when I get off my motorcycle. It's a horrible smell, and not great when you have passengers.

As for the check engine light. Well, the obvious part is to get a tune which frankly is night and day. I recently went back to my stock tune to get through inspection and I've forgotten how lackluster the car is with the stock tune. Hit up Randy at Epic and he will get you taken care of.

[a5m]

Has anybody run the latest Valvetronic with the Euro 6 cats and not gotten a CEL? My understanding was to meet Euro 6 they'd have to be pretty decent, but idk how strict or lax laws are in Europe.

I emailed them and they said some people have claimed to never get a CEL, but seems to be a gamble since it can vary from car to car.

To the OP, just buy the GESi cats and weld them in. Since they're going in the secondary position you can probably get the cheapest 300 cell ones they make and get the smell under control. You don't have to go for the latest EPA compliant ones, unless you plan to put em in the primary location but then you gotta deal with the reduced clearance.

[VR1]

Originally Posted by cooll_m3

Do you think it would be worth while to just buy a set of 200 CEL cats from magnaflow or GESI and have a shop weld them into the x-pipe I already own that has no cats. Because like I said earlier I already like the sound of mine and I am actually looking for more volume because I am also running the stock x pipe at the moment with no test pipes. So really I am just looking for some slight smell control from the x-pipe I bought.

This is what I did - I added two GESI high flow cats to my Macht Schnell catless X pipe (added them in the secondary position). It definitely helped the smell and reduced the rasp of the full catless setup

[Tragiclil]

This is exactly the kind of x-pipe setup I’m trying to find as well. E93 M3 will def need some quality HFCs to help with smell. Almost had a deal on one but seller went sketch with deposits before deal… etc

If anyone knows some great HFC x-pipes that don’t break the bank please let us know.

[Andreweatstacos]

Honestly with test pipes and modded oem muffler on my E90 I don't smell anything. I am also recommending just test pipes. They add to the volume, but keep the smell at bay.

I'm looking at the Bomiz 304 Valved Axleback just so I have an option to make it quieter. OP does your Bomiz system have vacuum or electronic valves?