Objective Test of EDC performance

[derbo]

It definitely sounds like the case, as the verbage does suggest it is just merely a function of time, nothing more.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Tony B

I am thinking the same.

The differences between the settings seem very small now, so maybe everything has been over-compensated assuming more wear than has actually taken place.

Mine have changed drastically since i bought the car 9y ago with 12k miles on the clock, at 56k miles now. Been fiddling around measuring damper current, replacing EDC module, visiting dealers etc without result. Gave up at some point and found that a very precise tyre pressure produce ok softness/stiffness in the different modes but still miles from the orginal differences thought.
I will give this a try soon as I get hold of a tool that support it.

[DrFerry]

Anyone know if the Carly App is capable of the EDC damper reset?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Anyone know if the Carly App is capable of the EDC damper reset?

I don't believe so. I had Carly for years but can't say I go through everything in between updates of the app but would be surpriced if the feature is hidden somewhere in there. Why, replacing chock mate?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

I don't believe so. I had Carly for years but can't say I go through everything in between updates of the app but would be surpriced if the feature is hidden somewhere in there. Why, replacing chock mate?

My question stems from a 'hypothetical-what-if' type scenario. If the EDC module compensates for OEM EDC shock wear - by altering the voltage the EDC shocks 'see' - i.e. to stiffen them as mileage and wear increase, then what might happen if the EDC was reset BUT the old OEM EDC shocks were left installed?

In this case it seems as though the EDC would revert to "thinking" the shocks were new when in fact they are old and worn. So if the EDC is reset and the shocks are still old then the ride would (comfort) theoretically improve but the handling would be degraded.

I know this sounds like an odd scenario, but suppose an owner wanted a softer ride then one could reset the EDC mileage to zero and if desired still stiffen the ride back up from the newly improved comfort mode with the other two remaining EDC normal and sport settings.

Sorry for my miscellaneous ramblings.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

My question stems from a 'hypothetical-what-if' type scenario. If the EDC module compensates for OEM EDC shock wear - by altering the voltage the EDC shocks 'see' - i.e. to stiffen them as mileage and wear increase, then what might happen if the EDC was reset BUT the old OEM EDC shocks were left installed?

In this case it seems as though the EDC would revert to "thinking" the shocks were new when in fact they are old and worn. So if the EDC is reset and the shocks are still old then the ride would (comfort) theoretically improve but the handling would be degraded.

I know this sounds like an odd scenario, but suppose an owner wanted a softer ride then one could reset the EDC mileage to zero and if desired still stiffen the ride back up from the newly improved comfort mode with the other two remaining EDC normal and sport settings.

Sorry for my miscellaneous ramblings.

That's exactly the mindset we thought when I reset wyatth 's EDC on his ZCP car.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

My question stems from a 'hypothetical-what-if' type scenario. If the EDC module compensates for OEM EDC shock wear - by altering the voltage the EDC shocks 'see' - i.e. to stiffen them as mileage and wear increase, then what might happen if the EDC was reset BUT the old OEM EDC shocks were left installed?

In this case it seems as though the EDC would revert to "thinking" the shocks were new when in fact they are old and worn. So if the EDC is reset and the shocks are still old then the ride would (comfort) theoretically improve but the handling would be degraded.

I know this sounds like an odd scenario, but suppose an owner wanted a softer ride then one could reset the EDC mileage to zero and if desired still stiffen the ride back up from the newly improved comfort mode with the other two remaining EDC normal and sport settings.

Sorry for my miscellaneous ramblings.

Got you. Also been thinking about this since I read about that the EDC are compensated over time. I don't have a tool to reset with but thinking of getting one to do it as I don't think my EDC behave the way I like it over the years.

Come to think of it, it is a few years not since I measured the (individual) EDC chock current but when I did it measured according to spec (IIRC 0.8/1.6/2.0Amps in the diff settings). Still have the wire "tool", maybe I'll make another measurement now after some years have passed to see if its possible to confirm (assumingly should be tad lower current).

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by derbo

That's exactly the mindset we thought when I reset wyatth 's EDC on his ZCP car.

Yup. In my case, comfort mode got a little more comfortable, and sport mode got a little tighter, while normal stayed about the same. When I got my car (47K) the 3 EDC modes were noticeably different (and each used). But by the time I got to 62K, the 3 modes were hard to tell the difference between (they all felt like normal). Resetting the EDC made each mode feel the way they used to.

In theory, a system that adjusts for wear would be neat and I wouldn't want to "trick" the system into treating old dampers like a new set, but (1) we aren't sure what factors contribute to the EDC adaptations (if it's just mileage, that seems somewhat primitive since not all miles/use are equal on damper wear), and (2) given that mine were all feeling the same, I figured it would be a worthwhile experiment before considering swapping out the dampers. In my case, it bought me time since I like the distinct EDC modes and the dampers are not otherwise failing.

Davisca455 had different results with his reset, where it made all of his modes feel like sport... so YMMV.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Tony B

I am thinking the same.

The differences between the settings seem very small now, so maybe everything has been over-compensated assuming more wear than has actually taken place.

Hey Tony, just chiming in should you have missed a parallell thread going on the subject.

Brandoch provided a BMW document (https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21370133) that confirms...

"Tolerance Adaptation
The damper force is diminished as part of the operating time function. Diminishing damper forces are compensated by current (amperage) reductions which are calculated by the tolerance control. This also individually compensates for mechanical damper wear on each axle."

...as well as reset/clearing adaptations:

"Notes on Service
Mechanical wear causes the dampers to weaken over the service life, therefore a running time memory adapts the damper curves towards a harder setting (over time). Faulty dampers must be replaced together (in pairs) on a single axle. After a replacement, the running time memory for the front or rear axle must be reset with the BMW diagnostic equipment"

FYI we've continue the discussion here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...2006874&page=3

[Tony B]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hey Tony, just chiming in should you have missed a parallell thread going on the subject.

Brandoch provided a BMW document (https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21370133) that confirms...

"Tolerance Adaptation
The damper force is diminished as part of the operating time function. Diminishing damper forces are compensated by current (amperage) reductions which are calculated by the tolerance control. This also individually compensates for mechanical damper wear on each axle."

...as well as reset/clearing adaptations:

"Notes on Service
Mechanical wear causes the dampers to weaken over the service life, therefore a running time memory adapts the damper curves towards a harder setting (over time). Faulty dampers must be replaced together (in pairs) on a single axle. After a replacement, the running time memory for the front or rear axle must be reset with the BMW diagnostic equipment"

FYI we've continue the discussion here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...2006874&page=3

Hi - only just seen this. Thanks for the heads-up!

[S65Hunter]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Foxwell nt510. It was under service/chassis/electronic damping control K.

Old thread I know, but you had success doing the reset with the Foxwell? Im debating on buying one or not. They aren't too expensive and would maybe come in handy in the future, im just not sure what other things I'd be able to do with it to justify buying one.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Foxwell nt510. It was under service/chassis/electronic damping control K.

Thanks for this information. I bought a Foxwell NT510 Elite scanner tool and successfully reset the EDC front and rear axle shocks using the "Shock absorber adjustment" menu choice (3rd image below). However, my NT510 Elite doesn't list the "Shock-absorber Performance" menu item - as shown on your own scanner photo below from 2022 (2nd image below)? Do you have any idea what the "Shock-absorber performance" menu function actually does? Thanks in advance.

chutak and derbo, just in case Tommysalami is no longer around (after selling his M3) could either of you also help answer my question above? I don't see the "Shock-absorber Performance" menu option on derbo's image from ISTA either... (1st image below)..
.

.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks for this information. I bought a Foxwell NT510 Elite scanner tool and successfully reset the EDC front and rear axle shocks using the "Shock absorber adjustment" menu choice (3rd image below). However, my NT510 Elite doesn't list the "Shock-absorber Performance" menu item - as shown on your own scanner photo below from 2022 (2nd image below)? Do you have any idea what the "Shock-absorber performance" menu function actually does? Thanks in advance.

chutak and derbo, just in case is no longer around (after selling his M3) could either of you also help answer my question above? I don't see the "Shock-absorber Performance" menu option on derbo's image from ISTA either... (1st image below)..

Interesting! Appreciate some info on changes after reset Doc. What mileage?

Ps. Still waiting for Protool to add the feature they said they will...

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Interesting! Appreciate some info on changes after reset Doc. What mileage? Ps. Still waiting for Protool to add the feature they said they will...

~152,000 miles on my M3's original EDC OEM shocks. The ride in EDC comfort mode had become quite hard (vertical Z direction) and the old OEM shocks no longer filtered small road surface imperfections such as cracks and small bumps etc. Large amplitude bumps were also very stiff in bump and rebound. For medical reasons - not the least of which is age (62 yrs now) - I wanted to improve ride comfort performance. Earlier in this thread I had alluded to and posted about how resetting the old OEM shocks was a good approach to improved comfort because doing so erases the EDC DME Module mileage related adaptations. I have plenty of fast cars to drive at the track and no longer want or need rocks for shocks...

After resetting both the front and rear axle shocks, the new ride for most road surface imperfections is improved i.e. more plush with better imperfection filtering, but only on the order of a trained driver difference (+0.75 SAE pts). It's not a difference your Grandma could find - but still quite noticeable to me - if you know what you're looking for and are well calibrated to the vehicle. Impacts now feel more rounded and less harsh. Imagine the old (prior to reset) impact signal in the time domain showing a plot shaped like a pyramid, but after reseting the impact force plot is now shaped more like a hill i.e. rounded top, lower in amplitude, and slightly longer in duration (by only fractions of a second). I also think the car squats a bit more as well as pitches forward slightly more (~+10%) under braking. The improved ride comfort performance difference is subtle, but it's there and I'm glad I did it.
.
SAE Rating Scale and Methods Links:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...4.2023.2259024
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ting-scale.png

Example of Ride Comfort Testing at the link below @ 2min 24s mark:
.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

~152,000 miles on my M3's original EDC OEM shocks. The ride in EDC comfort mode had become quite hard (vertical Z direction) and the old OEM shocks no longer filtered small road surface imperfections such as cracks and small bumps etc. Large amplitude bumps were also very stiff in bump and rebound. For medical reasons - not the least of which is age (62 yrs now) - I wanted to improve ride comfort performance. Earlier in this thread I had alluded to and posted about how resetting the old OEM shocks was a good approach to improved comfort because doing so erases the EDC DME Module mileage related adaptations. I have plenty of fast cars to drive at the track and no longer want or need rocks for shocks...

After resetting both the front and rear axle shocks, the new ride for most road surface imperfections is improved i.e. more plush with better imperfection filtering, but only on the order of a trained driver difference (+0.75 SAE pts). It's not a difference your Grandma could find - but still quite noticeable to me - if you know what you're looking for and are well calibrated to the vehicle. Impacts now feel more rounded and less harsh. Imagine the old (prior to reset) impact signal in the time domain showing a plot shaped like a pyramid, but after reseting the impact force plot is now shaped more like a hill i.e. rounded top, lower in amplitude, and slightly longer in duration (by only fractions of a second). I also think the car squats a bit more as well as pitches forward slightly more (~+10%) under braking. The improved ride comfort performance difference is subtle, but it's there and I'm glad I did it.

Thanks Doc. Your description is what I experience as well; the impact has become "spiky", and I like it to become more "rounded/hilly". The difference in settings is also less than before.
Very interesting to read that you're shocks are high mileage and still didn't fall apart completely when reset (for instance this thread claimed they can; https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2173865).

Will wait a bit more for Bimmergeeks to upgrade as they've promised, otherwise add yet another tool, Foxwell this time as it seems.

Thanks again!

Nik

[derbo]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

~152,000 miles on my M3's original EDC OEM shocks. The ride in EDC comfort mode had become quite hard (vertical Z direction) and the old OEM shocks no longer filtered small road surface imperfections such as cracks and small bumps etc. Large amplitude bumps were also very stiff in bump and rebound. For medical reasons - not the least of which is age (62 yrs now) - I wanted to improve ride comfort performance. Earlier in this thread I had alluded to and posted about how resetting the old OEM shocks was a good approach to improved comfort because doing so erases the EDC DME Module mileage related adaptations. I have plenty of fast cars to drive at the track and no longer want or need rocks for shocks...

After resetting both the front and rear axle shocks, the new ride for most road surface imperfections is improved i.e. more plush with better imperfection filtering, but only on the order of a trained driver difference (+0.75 SAE pts). It's not a difference your Grandma could find - but still quite noticeable to me - if you know what you're looking for and are well calibrated to the vehicle. Impacts now feel more rounded and less harsh. Imagine the old (prior to reset) impact signal in the time domain showing a plot shaped like a pyramid, but after reseting the impact force plot is now shaped more like a hill i.e. rounded top, lower in amplitude, and slightly longer in duration (by only fractions of a second). I also think the car squats a bit more as well as pitches forward slightly more (~+10%) under braking. The improved ride comfort performance difference is subtle, but it's there and I'm glad I did it.
.
SAE Rating Scale and Methods Links:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...4.2023.2259024
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ting-scale.png

Example of Ride Comfort Testing at the link below @ 2min 24s mark:
.

Since the car rides on the bumpstops for additional spring, it might be a good idea to swap out the bumpstops too

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by derbo

Since the car rides on the bumpstops for additional spring, it might be a good idea to swap out the bumpstops too

Thanks. LOL. But resetting the shocks via the EDC controller seems to have reset the bumpstops too...... Do you happen to know the answer(s) to the questions in this other post at the link below?
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=56

[derbo]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks. LOL. But resetting the shocks via the EDC controller seems to have reset the bumpstops too...... Do you happen to know the answer(s) to the questions in this other post at the link below?
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=56

Sorry wish I knew. It doesn't seem present in ISTA like you said in your post.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Thanks Doc. Your description is what I experience as well; the impact ha[d] become "spiky", and I like it to become more "rounded/hilly". The difference in settings is also less than before.
Very interesting to read that you're shocks are high mileage and still didn't fall apart completely when reset (for instance this thread claimed they can; https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2173865). Will wait a bit more for Bimmergeeks to upgrade as they've promised, otherwise add yet another tool, Foxwell this time as it seems. Thanks again!

Nik

I forgot to say the comfort performance difference (softer impacts) is somewhat more noticeable when the ambient temperatures are above ~50F. My OEM shocks have always had a tendency to be affected by ambient temperature i.e. more comfortable in the spring and summer when compared to their being quite harsh in the winter season. Now with the EDC shock reset done, that tendency is even greater than before the reset.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I forgot to say the comfort performance difference (softer impacts) is somewhat more noticeable when the ambient temperatures are above ~50F. My OEM shocks have always had a tendency to be affected by ambient temperature i.e. more comfortable in the spring and summer when compared to their being quite harsh in the winter season. Now with the EDC shock reset done, that tendency is even greater than before the reset.

Thanks mate. Mean while contacted Bimmergeeks who again pushed out the app update/feature introcustion. They gave the same manual instruction to use mean wile which I plan to do when I get around.

Ps. Probably get the same thing in lower temps but as changing for Winters its harder to tell.

Cheers
Nik

[chutak]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks for this information. I bought a Foxwell NT510 Elite scanner tool and successfully reset the EDC front and rear axle shocks using the "Shock absorber adjustment" menu choice (3rd image below). However, my NT510 Elite doesn't list the "Shock-absorber Performance" menu item - as shown on your own scanner photo below from 2022 (2nd image below)? Do you have any idea what the "Shock-absorber performance" menu function actually does? Thanks in advance.

chutak and derbo, just in case Tommysalami is no longer around (after selling his M3) could either of you also help answer my question above? I don't see the "Shock-absorber Performance" menu option on derbo's image from ISTA either... (1st image below)..

Hey, sorry for the late response. I was able to take a look at this. “Shock absorber performance” seems to be an option on my NT530 but not your NT510.
So I clicked on that option and but it didn’t really tell me much. See the screenshots posted:

Edit: pics won’t post for some reason. After clicking on the Shock Absorber Performance option it read:

“No fault can currently be found on the component group tested.”

Note that I’m in the Service function and not Diagnosis.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I forgot to say the comfort performance difference (softer impacts) is somewhat more noticeable when the ambient temperatures are above ~50F. My OEM shocks have always had a tendency to be affected by ambient temperature i.e. more comfortable in the spring and summer when compared to their being quite harsh in the winter season. Now with the EDC shock reset done, that tendency is even greater than before the reset.

Well that took its time..., finally reset the EDC the other day using Protool ("manually" as feature still not added).
Unfortunately I can't say I feel any difference after the reset (which I double checked reading the before/after HEX code). The difference between C/N/S settings is still (too) small, but I wouldn't say it got any softer either.

Hooked up the amp meeter for the fun of it and the original 0.8/1.6/2 amps is still there and probabably it should while the dynamic/current decrease when hitting pott holes etc "should" be less. This is however basically impossible to measure without capturing data during the exact same circumstances.

Anyways, thought I chime in. I'll go back to play around with the tire pressure to end up where I prefer. Mistery remains, as there isn't anything else other than the shocks valve current that possibly can have an impact.

Cheers
Nik