Track forum general chit chat.

[SAMM3Y]

I'm interested in spooni 's feedback on his pinaccle bolt in half cage.. I feel a bit exposed out on track in the car since an oh shit moment early this year. Look forward to your insights as I've heard good things... if you could share your thoughts either here or on your build forum please, thanks spoon.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I'm interested in spooni 's feedback on his pinaccle bolt in half cage.. I feel a bit exposed out on track in the car since an oh shit moment early this year. Look forward to your insights as I've heard good things... if you could share your thoughts either here or on your build forum please, thanks spoon.

what do you have for safety right now?

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

what do you have for safety right now?

Quick fit pro's on Recaro CS seats sans airbags, z tech hans and a helmet. So I've deleted air bags I recognize that and I try and tell myself I'm only going out for fun and safety and bringing the car home always comes first but shit happens and the more I track the car the faster I get and push so a cage and some proper seats seems logical if I'm going to continue tracking cars.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Quick fit pro's on Recaro CS seats sans airbags, z tech hans and a helmet. So I've deleted air bags I recognize that and I try and tell myself I'm only going out for fun and safety and bringing the car home always comes first but shit happens and the more I track the car the faster I get and push so a cage and some proper seats seems logical if I'm going to continue tracking cars.

i'd say thats pretty damn good. with seatbelts and a hans, you theoretically shouldn't be touching the airbags in an accident anyways.
a lot of people don't run a hans device. i didn't for many years... and thats probably the most unsafe thing i've done.

this is a dangerous sport and there is always the risk of injury up to, and including, death. i'd venture to say accidents on the road are more dangerous. wrong way drivers, much larger vehicles, crossroads, etc... getting hit and your vehicle rapidly changing direction is a big problem, as is suddenly becoming stationary.
the biggest risks seem to be internal decapitation, not getting crushed or cabin intrusion. this isn't based on anything other than how i feel, and the limited things i've seen. a 1/2 cage isn't going to help you in a forward collision, and i'd bet it would be untouched in a rollover. side impact? probably better than nothing.
as i've stated before the worst track injury i've read about besides death, is spinal compression from seat mounts sheering as the vehicle suddenly became stationary in a front collision with a berm.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I'm interested in spooni 's feedback on his pinaccle bolt in half cage.. I feel a bit exposed out on track in the car since an oh shit moment early this year. Look forward to your insights as I've heard good things... if you could share your thoughts either here or on your build forum please, thanks spoon.

I've been running it for about 3 months and it's pretty solid.. I will admit that I was swayed by the weight of the cage but it's main hoop mounting locations are at the top of the rear seat structure (not paper thin floor mounts). The rear cross is supported by 3 large bolts on each side that replace the "triangle" black chassis support brace behind the stock rear seat locations.

For ~40lbs and full "bolt on" you can't really ask for more. There are definitely stronger locations to mount the rear supports but this typically requires welding brackets in. +1 for the Pinnacle half cage.

[SAMM3Y]

Yikes! Nasty crash!! I track bikes too and have a track dedicated Yamaha R6 which I'd say is more my main jam. It's a lot friendlier to my budget and I also get a lot more track time on it compared to cars... I crashed my bike a few weeks ago due to post lunch stupidity with the photographer dominating my thoughts. lol. Went sliding on turn 2 thunderhill east at about 85mph but limped away and got the bike sorted to ride the next day, at a more cautious pace, goes without saying lol. Cars to me feel more dangerous, they often feel more at the hairy edge. maybe I'm just paranoid at being in something compared to being on something but the thought of rolling a car scares me more than anything bike related.

[turbo_joe]

Been busy rebuilding my M3 from my Road Atlanta incident.

Decided to wide body the car to easily fit some 18x11s with 315s all around.

Mocked up the front left to get things the way I want (now to repeat on the right side) and I finished fitting the rear over fenders. Front fenders are not made for an M3 so I had to get creative on how to fit them. I have a ton of tweaking and cleaning up to do, then wrap the car and get my numbers/class decals on it. Then build a new front splitter, old one didn't survive the impact with the tire wall.

Everything is mounted using rivnuts so its easy to pull panels off and replace them if needed.

Oh and I have a race in 2.5 weeks

[spooni]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i'd say thats pretty damn good. with seatbelts and a hans, you theoretically shouldn't be touching the airbags in an accident anyways.
a lot of people don't run a hans device. i didn't for many years... and thats probably the most unsafe thing i've done.

this is a dangerous sport and there is always the risk of injury up to, and including, death. i'd venture to say accidents on the road are more dangerous. wrong way drivers, much larger vehicles, crossroads, etc... getting hit and your vehicle rapidly changing direction is a big problem, as is suddenly becoming stationary.
the biggest risks seem to be internal decapitation, not getting crushed or cabin intrusion. this isn't based on anything other than how i feel, and the limited things i've seen. a 1/2 cage isn't going to help you in a forward collision, and i'd bet it would be untouched in a rollover. side impact? probably better than nothing.
as i've stated before the worst track injury i've read about besides death, is spinal compression from seat mounts sheering as the vehicle suddenly became stationary in a front collision with a berm.

Classic example on why NOT to over correct. Never driven a rear engine car on the track, so maybe there's more to it.. but if he would of just let it spin, he would of drove away.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by spooni

Classic example on why NOT to over correct. Never driven a rear engine car on the track, so maybe there's more to it.. but if he would of just let it spin, he would of drove away.

Also, he shouldn’t have taken his hands off the wheel and gotten all frantic, but too late now.

roastbeef you still gonna run empty carbon doors without a full cage?

[spooni]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I'm interested in spooni 's feedback on his pinaccle bolt in half cage.. I feel a bit exposed out on track in the car since an oh shit moment early this year. Look forward to your insights as I've heard good things... if you could share your thoughts either here or on your build forum please, thanks spoon.

Well I can already tell you that the two piece version has issues. The threads that hold the hoop and legs together are garbage.

[Bimmer Barney]

This crash video is why I'm on the fence about only doing seats, qfp harnesses and a hans. IMO it needs to be an entire engineered system. Either all in or stick with the millions of dollars and hours that bmw spent on the stock safety ecosystem.

Full race car system, or track it using stock restraint system and drive knowing you're not in a race car.

My opinion has been shaped by prior motorcycle racing and a career in risk management. YMMV. I walked away from a 90mph high side on track at chuckwalla. Very lucky.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by spooni

Well I can already tell you that the two piece version has issues. The threads that hold the hoop and legs together are garbage.

Didn't know they starting making a 2 piece. The single welded option has been excellent. Been in the car close to 2 yrs without issue. Wish the rear bar was higher so I could slide wheels into the back seat but instead I just ditched the passenger.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Also, he shouldn’t have taken his hands off the wheel and gotten all frantic, but too late now.

roastbeef you still gonna run empty carbon doors without a full cage?

For now, yes. I'll be running the BK harness bar with sparco harnesses, and a hans. The bk harness bar is legitimately tested to DOT/NHTSA load ratings for restraint devices, just a heads up.
I would eventually like to get a cage, for safety and rigidity.

As for side impacts, I'm just not sweating it. I drove a smart car the last seven years… if I took the doors off a jeep or rode a motorcycle, nobody would make any comments about it. Is it less safe? Probably. I just don't think its as significant as people make it out to be.

[SAMM3Y]

I haven't been able to find anything online about it since it happened but earlier in the year, somebody wrapped their fox body mustang around the pit entrance at thunder hill east after turn 15 and went drivers side into the k wall end and succumbed to their injuries. I believe it was a young lady with a decade of track experience. Sad topic and I think we all know the risks when we're out there, if one does any Motorsport for long enough, these sobering somber moments bring up the harsh reality of the sports.. as I'm getting older, the idea of a factory stock car or bike with the latest and greatest tech and safety becomes more attractive.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

For now, yes. I'll be running the BK harness bar with sparco harnesses, and a hans. The bk harness bar is legitimately tested to DOT/NHTSA load ratings for restraint devices, just a heads up.
I would eventually like to get a cage, for safety and rigidity.

As for side impacts, I'm just not sweating it. I drove a smart car the last seven years… if I took the doors off a jeep or rode a motorcycle, nobody would make any comments about it. Is it less safe? Probably. I just don't think its as significant as people make it out to be.

The current smart car also weighs over 1800lbs iirc, for a tiny lil box, so it must have some ridiculous reinforcement. Also, I comment on jeeps being death traps all of the time. They even have the big no-no roll cage equivalent in a street vehicle. Even worse, if I sit in the back seat my head is already above the height of those roll bars.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Didn't know they starting making a 2 piece. The single welded option has been excellent. Been in the car close to 2 yrs without issue. Wish the rear bar was higher so I could slide wheels into the back seat but instead I just ditched the passenger.

yeah its just a couple hundred dollar difference between the single and 2 piece.

personally i would go with the single, as the 2pc does have its issues, that ive talked about with berno.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

For now, yes. I'll be running the BK harness bar with sparco harnesses, and a hans. The bk harness bar is legitimately tested to DOT/NHTSA load ratings for restraint devices, just a heads up.
I would eventually like to get a cage, for safety and rigidity.

As for side impacts, I'm just not sweating it. I drove a smart car the last seven years… if I took the doors off a jeep or rode a motorcycle, nobody would make any comments about it. Is it less safe? Probably. I just don't think its as significant as people make it out to be.

The weight of a full cage will put you in tears lol.
Magnesium cage? Or carbon like the new GT3RS

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by tsk94

The weight of a full cage will put you in tears lol.
Magnesium cage? Or carbon like the new GT3RS

I was going to fly out the dude from pinnacle.

[slcook54]

Will have pics of my TCD cage on Friday.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Will have pics of my TCD cage on Friday.

You won't be disappointed

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

You won't be disappointed

Ya. There was a touch of miscommunication, probably my fault, since I wanted to keep my rear door cards and headliner, so they weren't able to paint it at the level I wanted. I'll have to figure that out separately. Aside from that, Joe is the man. I dropped it off on the 26th. They pulled the suspension, overnighted to Barry at 3DM, he turned it around in 24 hours and overnighted it back. I showed up on Monday and the cage wasn't even started. I go in for seat fitting on Friday and it should be done that same afternoon.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

I was going to fly out the dude from pinnacle.

Only challenge is to meet regulations you'd still have to use the larger tubing even with Jamie's T45 cage. The safety regs don't recognize the increased strength, thus it would weigh at least as much as DOM. But I do love his work!