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| 03-18-2022, 08:25 AM | #1 |
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Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90
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Location: Camas, WA
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
e9x M3's (and their mods) compared
I'm going to build this thread out over time. I've been in a 2012 e93 DCT coming up on two years now. I added a Harrop supercharger in July 2021, among a bunch of other mods over the last 2 years. I recently added an ESS VT1 550 supercharged e90M3 6MT to the stable and am going back and forth with each of them in my daily routines. It's giving me a chance to compare and contrast the models, the mods, and the packages. Even in a few short weeks, I now understand the bias for the e90/e92 over the e93 as well as the love for ZCP wheels and the (sometimes expressed) disdain over the rattling nature of the Vortech blower. I thought thought this might make for a unique opportunity to express 1 driver's view of the platform's differences (DCT v 6MT, ESS v Harrop, etc). As I build the thread out, feel free to add your own thoughts.
The Cars: 2011 Lemans Blue e90 6MT with Bamboo interior ZCP wheels (not a comp model) ESS VT1 (non-intercooled) 535/550 supercharger Stock suspension Corsa exhaust UUC ultimate clutch pedal UUC short shifter and DSSR shift rod 2012 Space Metallic Gray e93 DCT with black interior stock 19" wheels on H&R sport springs BPM Harrop supercharged with BPM DCT and steering tunes (previous BPM stage I tune with aFe cold air intake and Turner power pulley) Stock exhaust with test pipes More to come! |
| 03-18-2022, 02:14 PM | #2 |
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Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
BPM Harrop versus ESS VT1 550
BPM Harrop - this is a roots style Eaton blower equipped with an electronic bypass valve and I see boost peak as high as 7.5 PSI on stage 1 setup at sea level. The good: ideal setup for daily driving, brutal acceleration and superior torque development within usual street RPMs, stock-appearing setup with high quality parts. Almost a decade of demonstrated reliability as a platform on the S65. The SC is well matched with the heavier e93 and I do well holding the tires to the payment with stock 19" wheel width - which I think is set on 9.5" rear rims. Matches well with DCT. Freeway maneuvers with the Harrop give the car a sport-bike feel. Have clocked 0-60 at 4.00 seconds with the P3 gauge multiple times, including 6 hours into a hard driven autumn road rally down the WA coast. The bad: the SC whine on the e93 is troublesome IMO and erases one of the major pleasures of the S65 platform. Cost. Availability. Heavy kit, enough to change whether my car rubs bottom navigating my unusual driveway apron geometry. The kit appears to run out of air at high RPMs such that boost starts to fall off above 6k rpm - high volume low pressure system. ESS VT1 550 - this is the non-intercooled SC that ESS no longer produces, using the Vortech3 internally lubricated blower at pushing up to 5.0 PSI (ESS claim). There is published data on this forum that the unit does not heat soak with multiple hard pulls in a hot environment. The good: for what it is, this simple setup adds a nice amount of power to the car. one of the things I like about it is that the S65 retains it's induction note which coupled to the Corsa exhaust is a driver's dream. Lower cost option that gets 60-70% of the benefits seen in more expensive kits. The bad: higher RPMs are needed to experience what the kit can deliver, so it's less evident in daily driving situations. The Vortech3 blower sounds like it's broken at baseline - the rattling the unit makes at idle (heard outside the car) to me is a major detraction. Though the kit is lightweight and delivers most of the power offered by more expensive kits, it's not going to blow your socks off and I'm left feeling like I'm leaving potential power from the S65 untapped. Final opinion: Harrop supercharger for the win! Plan: moving the Harrop unit to the e90 and going back to NA on the e93. Will be putting the ESS VT1 550 up for sale later this spring. (I acknowledge that other ESS vortech and ESS G1 kits drive differently) |
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| 03-18-2022, 02:18 PM | #3 |
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In your case, I think it is awesome to have an N/A option in your stable.
I've not driven/ridden in a supercharged M3 before but after everything I have seen/heard/read/watched online, Harrop is the only one I'd ever consider if I wanted to go that route. Seems like you are making the right choice. |
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| 03-18-2022, 03:15 PM | #4 |
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Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90
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Location: Camas, WA
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
Premium 19" Wheels on H&R sport springs versus ZCP wheels painted Porsche silver on stock suspension I'm not a wheel guy. Or at least I wasn't before and I never understood the enthusiasm for ZCP wheels until I owned a set. Now, the premium 19" wheels that came with the e93 - well I can barely look at them. I imagine these were fine 10-15 years ago but they've not aged well, and to me the ZCPs on my e90 in the OP picture are timeless and beautiful. ZCP wheels for the win. Stock suspension versus H&R sport springs. I noticed an improvement in ride quality and handling when I traded out stock springs for the H&R sport lowering springs but hard to say whether that persists. I think initially they gave the e93 an elegant stance (as in this photo). My only gripe is that the H&Rs seem to have settled in more than advertised and look a little 'saggy' almost 2 years later - so much that I've wondered if I received the coupe or sedan springs in error. While I think the e92/e93 look better dropped 1 - 1.5", I like the look of the sedan with its stock stance. Stock suspension versus H&R sport springs: push |
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| 03-18-2022, 05:18 PM | #5 |
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
Individual Audio (e93) versus HiFi (e90)
Both of these systems have had Bavsound speaker upgrades. With the Individual Audio, I didn't notice much of a change with the Bavsound speaker upgrades - until I found the equalizer settings posted by Malek in this forum. Once those were dialed in, I've been reasonably happy with the Individual Audio system for what it is. Moving to the e90 with the Bavsound upgraded HiFi (and no equalizer), I'm mostly find that the sound quality is similar to the Individual Audio - but the volume is less immersive. I've got an amplifier upgrade on my to-do list though I do wish these cars were more amenable to 6.5" door speakers. I'd go full custom if this was readily available. Individual Audio with Malek's equalizer settings for the win. That said - Would I skip buying a car that had everything I wanted except Individual Audio? Nope. Last edited by CamasM3e93; 03-19-2022 at 07:54 AM.. |
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| 03-19-2022, 07:52 AM | #6 |
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
DCT v 6MT
This one has been well chronicled in the forum and elsewhere so I'll stick with my impressions. The DCT is a wicked-good transmission when it is driven manually in sport mode. Coupled with the Harrop charged S65, the car is capable of making 99th percentile acceleration and neck snapping lane changes. It has the advantage of being able to pop it into Auto in congested driving and while warming up the engine - so in a lot of ways it is the best of both worlds. But.....if you long for the tactile and analog experience of that 3rd pedal - plus the ability to choose your gear (rather than sequentially moving up or down through the gears - yes I know there's a way to get the DCT to skip gears on a downshift) - the DCT will never scratch that itch. That said, the e9x 6MT leaves a lot to be desired. Mine is outfitted with a UUC short shifting kit, an Ultimate clutch pedal, and a DSSR shift rod. I think the clutch pedal setup (as modified) is perfect, but my shifting is notchy at times and slow. Based on feedback here, I'll be stepping through a number of 'fixes' outlined by others: upgrading the MT fluid to Red Line D4, then look at upgrading the rest of the shifting mechanism, bushings, etc. |
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| 03-19-2022, 08:50 AM | #7 |
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Hello my friend, I have the same harrop supercharger as you and I also think the whine is a little too much for daily driving. I researched on the forum how to reduce the whine and this is what they came up with. If you purchase an additional intake snorkel that is on the dummy intake vent and install it on your airbox, it actually takes away 60-75% of the supercharger whine. I've purchased it for my car and I usually use it for long drives just so I do not have to hear the whine the entire trip. Hope this helps.
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| 03-19-2022, 10:32 AM | #8 |
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maybe 2 out of the 20 cars and trucks that I've owned in my life were automatic so if my math is correct 18 of my previous cars have been manuals. I've also driven countless other manual cars. Most of those have not been higher performance sport cars so my experience on those is limited, hence my confusion when people have complaints about this platforms manual transmission. I mean no disrespect and I don't discredit anyone but when I hear the usual buzz words like notchy and slow shifting I wonder, what am I missing here? What are you're experiences that bring you to this conclusion? This car in comparison to my previous cars shifts about a thousand times better and I can't think about what I would improve. So I ask what is your baseline and What are you comparing it to? What car have you driven that you'd like it to shift like?
I got stuck thinking our manuals were not great so the first and last thing I did was upgrade to a solid clutch pedal stopper thing. People claimed it to be a game changer. I doubted from the get. But for $15, why not? I probably should've trusted my instinct because who smashes the pedal to the floor when shifting? If you know how to drive a manual then your pedal shouldn't be touching the floor unless you're stopped but why not just put it in neutral and use the foot brake? Maybe and I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm just good at driving a manual car to know how to take advantage of it? I've driven with experienced track guys and amateur racers and they've all told me how well I drive a manual transmission. Then again maybe my M3 is a freak because to me it has been the quickest and easiest car to drive out of everything I've driven. So much so that I almost want it to be more difficult to drive. Sometimes it's just to easy and effortless. |
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| 03-20-2022, 07:03 AM | #9 | |
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Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
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But that said, it's important to stress that I'm judging my e90 as purchased - a transmission with 98k miles and the modifications I describe: UUC short throw shifting kit, DSSR shifting rod, and ultimate clutch pedal. It's quite possible some of what I am experiencing is worn bushings, ? transmission mounts, worn clutch, the UUC shift kit, the guy in the driver seat, etc. |
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| 03-20-2022, 08:30 AM | #10 | ||
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I don't disagree that improvements can be made but I wonder how much of those improvements would be wasted on me. Something that always stuck with me was the words from an old pro dirtbike racer. He told me to save all my modification money and use it for gas. He said think about the guy who spent $1000 on new suspension and how many track days and full gas tanks that would get you. So from that point I started looking at things differently. In his older age he rode a clapped out old bike that was all stock and he destroyed the younger guys with deep pockets and big mods. He was a talented freak though. Those guys would always think that they needed even better parts but they never increased their seat time. The most difficult car I've driven was, crazy, as it sounds, Honda civics from the early 2000's. Those were awful to me but ive still seen first hand guys who nee them well and could drive them perfectly. Either way I'm still curious of others first hand improvements on our cars. Good thread. |
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| 03-20-2022, 09:16 PM | #11 |
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I have the Harrop for about 4 years, I was weary of the sound but it really hasn't annoyed except at constant low speed and higher revs, leaving it in auto usually negates that. Otherwise very happy
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| 03-21-2022, 10:05 AM | #12 |
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Great thread! I will be following your updates and others for valid input.
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| 03-21-2022, 11:33 PM | #13 |
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Would love to catch a ride sometime, before you take off/swap any superchargers. Been contemplating doing an ESS G1. Gonna have to delay a purchase though, as I'm working on moving to a bigger house.
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| 03-22-2022, 07:05 AM | #15 |
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Friends don't let friends ESS
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Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90
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Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [9.00]
2003 Porsche 911 Turbo [9.83] 2019 BMW X5 xDrive40i [0.00] 2013 Mercedes E550 ... [0.00] |
Corsa exhaust with stock x-pipe (e90) versus Stock exhaust with test pipes (e93)
There's plenty of youtube clips out there and in a few minutes you can listen to reasonable approximations of various exhaust system notes at start up, drive away, drive toward, etc. I'll stick to my experiences as the driver. One of the huge advantages of the e93 is being able to drop the top and enjoy that exhaust note on a summer cruise. Early in my ownership I zipped down I-5 to Santa Cruz and after visiting with a buddy, drove top-down the entire northern length of Highway 1 along the pacific coast to its terminus. The visuals plus the constant hum of the stock exhaust make that one of the top 2 or 3 driving days of my life. In fact, my grinning photo avatar is me in front of the highway 1 sign at the end of the day, all blissed out. Still, nobody stops me at the gas station to compliment the stock exhaust. And for the record, my impression of switching to test pipes on the stock exhaust is no change in sound but more of it. Enter the e90. Now I had been lusting after a Corsa exhaust for a long time, with a botched purchase or two along the way as I was modding the e93. so when I saw Kyle post his e90 for sale and it already had a Corsa exhaust (among other mods), the car had my attention. To me, one of the key driver's benefits of the S65 is that induction note. It's so sweet and deep - I can listen to it all day. Going from stock to the Corsa exhaust, imagine doubling that listening pleasure - and being surrounded by it 365 degrees. That's what the Corsa is like. If I had to come up with a word for it - and I have, thank you for asking - I'd say it sounds like butter. I simply can't get enough. A funny sidebar. Last week I was taking the car to the dealer to register the battery, through morning traffic. I thought it was a drop-off because of some other planned work and my father-in-law followed me out there to bring me back. We got separated in rush hour traffic. Later he told me he found me by following the Corsa exhaust note! Loud and distinctive enough to be enjoyed without being obnoxious. To me the Corsa is the clear winner. I acknowledge that isn't saying much as every Tom Dick and Harry exhaust company has come out with an exhaust system that improves upon the OEM. But for me the extent of the win is this: if I keep the e93, I'm putting a Corsa on it. |
| 03-22-2022, 07:11 AM | #16 |
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| 03-22-2022, 07:25 AM | #17 | |
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| 03-22-2022, 10:52 AM | #18 | |
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| 04-01-2022, 06:42 PM | #19 | |
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| 04-02-2022, 07:03 AM | #20 | |
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and we'll test out the Corsa on test pipes.... |
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| 04-02-2022, 07:50 AM | #21 |
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Drives: '11 Lemans Blue 6mt Harrop e90
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I think my last planned post on this string is the e93 versus e90 review.
Starting with the e93 I came to the M3 when my random 99 Porsche Boxster 5MT acquisition was causing much marital discord. In a gesture of major compromise and chivalry, I agreed to jettison said Boxster and went off in search of a 4 seater hard top convertible with an automatic transmission (though my wife can drive stick, she has MS and her left leg tires on the clutch). The goal was to have a car that could be my daily, satisfy my long desire to own a convertible, and be drivable by all parties. Said search took me to a rickety Infiniti, an inboard Mercedes F class (F was for forgettable), and eventually to test drive an e93. After much disappointment in the Inifiniti and Merc - I was blown away on the e93 test drive. I recall freeway speed changes that made my vision blurry and giggling out-loud listening to the exhaust blend with the induction note - I was in love and feeling fine about walking away from the Boxster. I walked away from that first well priced M3 because it had a CEL indicating a bad catalytic converter. Of course I was to later learn it probably just had test pipes sans proper tune, but lesson learned. A few weeks later the above e93 came into offer on Carmax with 44k miles and I snapped it up, overpaid to have it shipped local, and a new phase of life was borne. The e93 is said to be 'not a real M3', too heavy, not worth the 400 pound excess curb weight, not a reasonable daily driver in the rainy PNW, not even a proper convertible since it wasn't designed that way from the ground up - I can go on for a while with all of the bashing I've heard. My experience is that it is a sublime example in the niche it sits: a 4 seater hard top convertible capable of daily driving. That's a tiny segment, albeit, but one that the e93 M3 sits atop by a mile IMO. While I agree the car handles un-M3 like top up, top down and lowered as I have it, the car is actually incredibly well balanced and I think carves turns every bit as well - if not better - than my e90. I've taken the car on two long road trips down the California coast - several shorter road trips, and a Harrop charged 500 mile day-long road rally around the Washington peninsula, down the entire coast line, and home. Simply, the car road-trips like a dream and has created a ton of memories. Add in the tunes and thrills of the S65 engine on test pipes, driven in sport mode manual on the DCT with rev matching downshifts, the thing can be a goddamn beast. But it's a beast that can zip to Home Depot to bring home 10' lengths of PEX, then pick my daughter and her friends up from school. So why the e90, if I've been so in love with my e93? Much like my journey to the e93, my entrance to the e90 was sideways. Though I was only in the Boxster for a few months, I really fell in love with having a manual trans - the Boxster being my 3rd. Though I am a fierce advocate for a BPM-tuned DCT driven in manual sport mode, I just couldn't shake that persistent itch to get back into a MT. So I looked, and I longed, and I thought and the right car came on the board. A sporadic member down in the desert SW posted his Lemans Blue e90 6MT ESS supercharged with ZCP wheels and bamboo beige interior - and I couldn't pass it up. It was a color combo I had come across in a 911 cabrio when I was on my search that led to the e93 - and I've been in love with it since. So off to the local dealers I went to check out a few e90 6MTs - and had enough to convince myself to fly to AZ and buy Rocky. So what's the E90 like coming from the e93? Well let's just say I get it. I get the allegation that the e93 is not a real M3. I get why Roastbeef obsessively cuts weight from his e9x. I get why people track these cars. I finally get what understeering is. And now I get why I was warned that if I had the MT itch, nothing I would do short of getting a manual transmission would scratch that itch. (for the record, Harrop supercharging the e93 was in part an attempt to scratch that 6MT itch - while amazing - I was forewarned correctly) The e90 currently sits at my house an unfinished project: No test pipes, wrong supercharger, in need of component refresh, some detailing, etc. But driving it is a completely stepped up experience. Even with the relatively puny ESS 535 supercharger, the car en motion feels like its ready to exit the surface of the earth. The rear end breaks out with the twitch of the throttle, it turns on a dime, and WAY too easily shreds 295 Michelins. Now moving back and forth between the two cars every few days, the e90 is almost unnerving in comparison to the e93. At times I'm left appreciating the lowered, heavier stance of the e93 for its solidity and predictability - and its ability to hold the Harrop torque to the pavement. Then I get in the e90 and appreciate the 6MT and walking that fine line between being in control - and not. Is there a clear winner here? To me, the answer depends on the context of the question. Do I want a trackable car that is analog and driftable? The 6MT e90 is the clear choice between the two. Do I want an epic road tripper that is versatile enough to daily drive? Hard to beat the DCT e93. Am I schizophrenic enough to keep both???? to be determined. |
| 04-02-2022, 09:19 AM | #22 |
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Now I want an e93 as the daily.
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