OE Replacement Vanos Hub (Spring) Covers

[DJiGGs]

Isn't it crazy that the price of their DCT pan and their vanos covers are the same?
I know nothing of what is required to make either but to me it just seems ridiculous that the two can cost the same...

[straightupfunk]

Whelp I got two different designs in two different materials produced from stratasys' print-on-demand service. One is PPS and the other is PEKK. Already convinced the proper FDM design is halfway between the lighter (PPS) design similar to OEM, and the cut-out (PPS) design. Both have temp/chemical resistance past 200C, so they should hold up no problem inside the engine without any real load on them.






As for the test setup... I have a cheap-o $10 aluminum bucket rice cooker from Goodwill I picked up. I'll be controlling the on/off with a simple 110V/10A AC relay and a microcontroller. Picked up a thermocouple and an amplifier and tested the setup with water, and the microcontroller reads pretty close to both my oven as well a cheap digital meat thermometer I had. Looks like it takes ~30 minutes to heat up to ~200F and a couple hours to cool back down to ~90F.






Two more things before this setup is switched on:
1. ) decide how I want to log the cycles instead of crudely based on time... either UART or might write a bluetooth logger to an SD card or display to show how many heat cycles it's been through. I'm thinking at least something to make an excel spreadsheet out of.

2. ) a bracket that bolts to the center screw on the glass lid and has two hooks that I can hang the parts off of. hopefully hitting up lowes tomorrow to grab some sheet metal that I can cut/bend into shape in my garage.

[Redd]

Have you considered the reaction of the plastic with hot oil and heat cycling?

[straightupfunk]

Originally Posted by Redd

Have you considered the reaction of the plastic with hot oil and heat cycling?

mmhmm, that's why I chose PPS and PEKK as the two materials to test first. both are extremely chemical resistant up to 200C, well beyond the stock nylon-blend caps.

[spammysammich]

I have a bit of experience working with PEEK and know it to be extremely chemical resistant and machinable but probably too expensive for this application. I haven't used it in a 3d printable form. If PEKK has similar properties, which it appears to, it should hold up well to petroleum products. PEEK resists solvents like acetonitrile and strong acids and bases as well as being temperature resistant.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by straightupfunk

Whelp I got two different designs in two different materials produced from stratasys' print-on-demand service. One is PPS and the other is PEKK. Already convinced the proper FDM design is halfway between the lighter (PPS) design similar to OEM, and the cut-out (PPS) design. Both have temp/chemical resistance past 200C, so they should hold up no problem inside the engine without any real load on them.




As for the test setup... I have a cheap-o $10 aluminum bucket rice cooker from Goodwill I picked up. I'll be controlling the on/off with a simple 110V/10A AC relay and a microcontroller. Picked up a thermocouple and an amplifier and tested the setup with water, and the microcontroller reads pretty close to both my oven as well a cheap digital meat thermometer I had. Looks like it takes ~30 minutes to heat up to ~200F and a couple hours to cool back down to ~90F.






Two more things before this setup is switched on:
1. ) decide how I want to log the cycles instead of crudely based on time... either UART or might write a bluetooth logger to an SD card or display to show how many heat cycles it's been through. I'm thinking at least something to make an excel spreadsheet out of.

2. ) a bracket that bolts to the center screw on the glass lid and has two hooks that I can hang the parts off of. hopefully hitting up lowes tomorrow to grab some sheet metal that I can cut/bend into shape in my garage.

I have the same rice cooker...been cooking rice in it since 2000. We're asian so it gets used every day and travels with us.

Let me know if you want to sell it. Seriously

[bigjae1976]

So far options are:

1. Slon covers - expensive?
2. Install a large washer under the bolt - requires timing the engine
3. Pretend the cover is well made and ignore issue

Am I missing any?

[Redd]

4. This failure is just a myth, just like rod bearings and injectors. There is nothing wrong with the S65, just drive it.

[straightupfunk]

Quick update... I printed a third part in Markforged Onyx, a carbon fiber filled nylon with a Tg (glass transition temp) of ~150C. Datasheet gave it an A in petrol resistance, so we'll see.

All three parts have been cycling in oil for about a week now with no degradation. Heats up to about 220F and then cools back down to ~90F before starting over. Repeat ad nauseam.

A coworker had a brilliant idea and recommended I load each with a spring that applies outward pressure. That way I'll be able to measure any deformation after another couple weeks.

Anyways, so far so good!

[straightupfunk]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I have the same rice cooker...been cooking rice in it since 2000. We're asian so it gets used every day and travels with us.

Let me know if you want to sell it. Seriously

Hell yes! It looked damn simple when I took it apart. Like literally the same heating element/coil you see on an electric stove lol. Not sure if you'll want it after all the oil cycles, but I'd gladly mail you the base for replacement parts.

[wyatth]

Interesting work!

[k_mann]

This is so cool thanks for sharing! Love to see someone take this on and put serious effort into testing it. I think passion projects always turn out best, I hope to see you succeed!

My vote is on PEEK currently, however interested to see how the cheaper alternatives perform. I think if people researched even slightly they wouldn't be hesitant over these materials, who knows what the oems were. Surely all the plastics your testing will WAY outperform

The whole ordeal with slons puts a bad taste in my mouth. I mean solid subframes are what $220? I get the vanos cover would take more milling which would make them cost more, but they're priced excessively. Yes, they're the only ones, but I don't support riding a fear wave for profits.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by k_mann

This is so cool thanks for sharing! Love to see someone take this on and put serious effort into testing it. I think passion projects always turn out best, I hope to see you succeed!

My vote is on PEEK currently, however interested to see how the cheaper alternatives perform. I think if people researched even slightly they wouldn't be hesitant over these materials, who knows what the oems were. Surely all the plastics your testing will WAY outperform

The whole ordeal with slons puts a bad taste in my mouth. I mean solid subframes are what $220? I get the vanos cover would take more milling which would make them cost more, but they're priced excessively. Yes, they're the only ones, but I don't support riding a fear wave for profits.

there are a lot of things for this car that is excessively over priced

and as an engineer my self, my time spent to design said products reflects upon said pricing.

[k_mann]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

there are a lot of things for this car that is excessively over priced

and as an engineer my self, my time spent to design said products reflects upon said pricing.

oh I totally agree, its even worse with p-cars! But I think some things deserve to be called out as obnoxious when its not oem/oem supplier. These covers can't have taken such a serious level of R&D to mill out of aluminum that it justifies the price they're going. You're replacing a low failure rate (that we know) plastic cap with aluminum, so you know it won't fail. Its about as important as valve cover screw so again, not near the R&d of something like bearing shells.

I know my message seems condescending towards the work on these, but its not, its just the price gouging. But they have the monopoly on it now so not much can be done besides creating competition.....ie this thread

[straightupfunk]

Originally Posted by k_mann

oh I totally agree, its even worse with p-cars! But I think some things deserve to be called out as obnoxious when its not oem/oem supplier. These covers can't have taken such a serious level of R&D to mill out of aluminum that it justifies the price they're going. You're replacing a low failure rate (that we know) plastic cap with aluminum, so you know it won't fail. Its about as important as valve cover screw so again, not near the R&d of something like bearing shells.

I know my message seems condescending towards the work on these, but its not, its just the price gouging. But they have the monopoly on it now so not much can be done besides creating competition.....ie this thread

Oh they're priced totally fair for something with ZERO competition lmao... free market and all.

I really want to reach out to some companies that do destructive investigations of plastic compositions. I used an MWIR spectrometer a couple months ago to try and figure out exactly what they were made of but the readings didn't match anything in the tool's spectral library so I didn't get a hit. I'm starting to look for companies that will do chemical analysis, and hoping that one will respond with a <$500 (hopeful) quote. I don't mind shredding my current covers to send samples to labs since I'm already this far in haha. It's either one of these 3D printed covers work, or I'm just machining replacements out of aluminum round-stock.

[serranot]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I have the same rice cooker...been cooking rice in it since 2000. We're asian so it gets used every day and travels with us.

Let me know if you want to sell it. Seriously

Priceless post. Pin this one . . .

[rg1220]

Why not try something like https://www.hubs.com/ for CNC Machining? I made a fake example of the covers (no idea what the measurements actually are):

[straightupfunk]

I ended up going with the Markforged Onyx because I had printers at work with the material already loaded, and it held up just as well as the PPS and PEKK parts during testing.

The PEKK design with cut-outs all the way down to the base was too flexible, but the oem design was too brittle and cracked when installed... so I made some cut-outs around 2 of the clips, and it's perfect.
You slide on the indexing nub, and smack it with your palm and it clips on super tight without any layer separation or cracking.

Now that I'm satisfied enough with this design, I should have the car running by the end of April. I think I'm gonna run these for a couple weeks and then pull the valve covers to inspect/replace with new ones.







I think this design with the little cut-outs would work in the PEKK (Stratasys Antero) without breaking, but I haven't tested it yet. The Markforged Onyx is way less brittle than the Stratasys PPS and PEKK. I've reached out to several Print-On-Demand shops and this design seems to run ~$80/ea in PPS/PEKK, so $240 for a set of 4. Which for only half the Slon option isn't that much of an improvement. I haven't quoted out the Markforged Onyx, but the required printer is wayyy cheaper than the Stratasys ones for PPS/PEKK, so I would assume it should be less. Regardless, 3D printing paraphernalia has been following a price/capability trend similar to Moore's Law, so these should be chump change to have printed pretty soon.



Assuming these hold up, I might move on to work on a spring steel/sheet metal replacement... or just keep printing replacements and go longer and longer between checking them lol

I'll upload the designs this weekend to Thingiverse... and here if I can? idk. Does anyone know if Solidworks or Blender/etc can import a Parasolid file to keep all the relations in case anyone wants to modify it rather than an STL/mesh that is a b**** to change?

[wyatth]

I commend your dedication, approach, and feedback even if the science behind it is beyond me.

[straightupfunk]

Thingiverse finally posted the design files. If anyone wants to download them, can you let me know if you can import them into your CAD software of choice? Hopefully with part geometries/faces still intact?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5346382

[Redd]

Great work!

[buldogge]

Have you ever worked with this material?: https://www.matterhackers.com/store/...nt/sk/M8H26VSM

-Mark in St. Louis