MFactory Carbon Driveshaft Issues

[Audi5000s]

Originally Posted by chutak

OP, since you already have the driveshaft removed can you take it to a local driveline shop for balance testing? Pretty sure those types of shops could diagnose a failure easily. Yeah, you'll have to cough up a few bucks, but at least you'd have a better idea if the driveshaft is good or not.

It's also hard to say if it's installation error. New engine mounts could've tweaked the driveshaft angle a bit. Didn't the recent rod-bearing/engine-mount job exacerbate NVH?

I will probably end up taking it to a driveshaft specific place to get their opinion. Thank you for the suggestion. Yes, the NVH was increased after new rod bearings/engine mounts. That was my first thought about the new angle. Did it throw it out of balance. I was looking for ideas on items to address.

[tdott]

The CV joint at the back should allow it to move a slight amount. So new engine mounts should not cause a vibration imo.

[Throatpunch]

Originally Posted by MFactory

And thus my whole reasoning why I did not want to "blow up" this thread with back-and-forth, people chiming in (some of which are very selective at what they want to read and what to ignore), misinterpretations etc etc

This whole situation has just been a case of miscommunication and misunderstandings, should have been left to emails and off the public forum

Agreed- most disputes like this are purely miscommunication and language challenges make it even rougher. I am certain both buyer and seller are trying to be honest with their points of view.

Too many variables in a transaction like this (manufacturing, shipment, and install) where something in that process can cause the problems written here. Remember the seller can really only control one of those three things...

[Vedubin01]

Originally Posted by MFactory

Again, different timezones and international calls. And a 10 minute phone call would simply be "sorry, say that again?" everytime I spoke due to my accent which most Americans simply do not understand. Talking on the phone is futile, as I found out years ago when we first started, thus switching to email communication only (although LSD sales can call our US facility during office hours). Talking on the phone causes miscommunication; it doesn't solve it

We reply to emails usually within a few hours at most, 7 days per week. If this is bad customer service to you, then I apologize for not trying harder.

P.S In case you are not multi-lingual and don't understand this, speaking/listening to English is a LOT harder than reading/writing English if English is not your 1st language.

I have no stick in this fight but following it for sure. What gets me is you talk about different time zones yet all your responses have been on a US business time zone. To say you don't speak English that well, but to not even give it a try is beyond me for customer service. Your English writing is better than most high schoolers in the US. Im sure if you would have extended some good faith you would not be on here defending your stance.

This thread has put doubt in people looking at your product and if you lose just one customer due to it you are out way more money than if you tried just a bit harder to provide exceptional customer service to resolve the issue. I'm sure you will have to be dealing with a lot more when you finally ship out those DS that people have been waiting a lifetime for. You re lucky many of them are waiting and trusting you with the delay of product due to what ever reason you want to give.

My .02cents

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Audi5000s

I would've done a zoom chat under the car with my mechanic if it helped. I relayed all of the info that I had from my mechanic to them along with what I was noticing. What my mechanic provided today was nothing new. I want to find a resolution here, but feel that I am was at a dead end unless I shipped it back to China. I was trying to find other solutions vs. dealing with the downtime of shipping and the cost involved. I just felt I needed to share my experience.

MFactoruy has stated him self that his direct contact was in his email to you, why not just call him at the time? your mechanic was checking the car out.

NA offices is in california if i remember correct.

[Throatpunch]

Originally Posted by Vedubin01

I have not stick in this fight but following it for sure. What gets me is you talk about different time zones yet all your responses have been on a US business time zone. To say you don't speak English that well, but to not even give it a try is beyond me for customer service. Your English writing is better than most high schoolers in the US. Im sure if you would have extended some good faith you would not be on here defending your stance.

This thread has put doubt in people looking at your product and if you lose just one customer due to it you are out way more money than if you tried just a bit harder to provide exceptional customer service to resolve the issue. I'm sure you will have to be dealing with a lot more when you finally ship out those DS that people have been waiting a lifetime for. You re lucky many of them are waiting and trusting you with the delay of product due to what ever reason you want to give.

My .02cents

Just to be clear I think he is more concerned about the time zones for those who would help over the phone. I wouldn't assume the mfactory poster is a one man shop who will do all the support too

[Redd]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

I don't see any wrong with Mfactory here. Sure, there could be misunderstanding in translation but this thread is pretty clear.

OP having issue with the shaft.
Mfactory offered to inspect it.
OP would have to pay to ship it back for inspection.
If it is defect, Mfactory will cover the cost.
If no defect on the part but rather installation or issue is with the car, OP will have to cover shipping.

Unless I am missing something, that seems fair to me.

Like, say you bought a car and are issues with it. The dealer will look at it and yes they will cover all costs if it is warranty issue. But dealer will make you pay for their time if the issue is not with them. So I don't see how is this situation any different.

Agree with this. MFactory could just have easily said that you were out of warranty and not entertain you and they would have been well within their rights to do so. Funny thing is, if they had chosen to do that, we wouldn't all be here taking sides on this matter.

Instead MFactory decide to help by offering a replacement even though it was out of warranty period if the issue was the DS, and you only had to send it back for them to check. Sounds like a fair request to me. Sure, shipping is expensive, but if you're certain it was a shaft issue then you get a new one back. Instead you chose to rouse the forum rabble and here we are today.

My personal experience with Michael is that he's extremely accommodating and has gone out of his way to make my experience with MFactory very pleasant even though I bought my V1 CF DS used. He's always replied emails in a timely fashion and has helped two of my friends get on the CF DS GB even after it was closed. My V1 shaft has also given me zero issues even though its a used unit and was tracked both by the previous owner and myself.

[Ajolives]

Originally Posted by Redd

Agree with this. MFactory could just have easily said that you were out of warranty and not entertain you and they would have been well within their rights to do so. Funny thing is, if they had chosen to do that, we wouldn't all be here taking sides on this matter.

Instead MFactory decide to help by offering a replacement even though it was out of warranty period if the issue was the DS, and you only had to send it back for them to check. Sounds like a fair request to me. Sure, shipping is expensive, but if you're certain it was a shaft issue then you get a new one back. Instead you chose to raise the forum rabble and here we are today.

My personal experience with Michael is that he's extremely accommodating and has gone out of his way to make my experience with MFactory very pleasant even though I bought my V1 CF DS used. He's always replied emails in a timely fashion and has helped two of my friends get on the CF DS GB even after it was closed. My V1 shaft has also given me zero issues even though its a used unit and was tracked both by the previous owner and myself.

Originally Posted by Redd

Instead MFactory decide to help by offering a replacement even though it was out of warranty period if the issue was the DS, and you only had to send it back for them to check. Sounds like a fair request to me. Sure, shipping is expensive, but if you're certain it was a shaft issue then you get a new one.

I blame Amazon; they ruined shipping and returns forever. People expect businesses to roll over and play dead with zero questions as soon as there's any issue and make it whole immediately.

I catch myself doing this all the time now and get pissy when I have to wait more than 3 days for anything, or if returns take forever.

[Redd]

There's also a learning here for MFactory. At some point they need to invest in a US stockist to take care of these types of requests as their business grows.

[e92zero]

I have no side in this but I have installed the MFortory V1 drive shaft 5 yrs ago and 53k miles later now, I have no problem. I am pretty sensitive to change in NVH and I have driven up to 120mph with no issue at all. At least no VH, the sound is different from the chassis with the carbon shaft but I think that's just normal.

Not to but what I have noticed/recall during installation are the following:

- The oem 2-piece factory drive shaft has a sliding piece in the middle with 2 cv/pivoting joints in the ends that makes installation and removal a piece of cake (besides the weight). The 1-piece carbon drive shaft do not fit in the open space as is cause it doesn't have the sliding piece. I recall having to lower the transmission mount and the front of the diff mount for the shaft to slip in the space and move both the transmission and diff end up slowly for the carbon shaft to 'get in'.
- The ends of the carbon shaft do not line up with the flanges on either side of the transmission and the diff perpendicularly. If one draw a straight line from the transmission flange to the diff flange, the 2 flange faces are not 100% perpendicular to this imaginary line. This is an issue the oem 2-piece factory shaft doesn't have. The oem shaft ensure the shaft entry/contact point on both ends are perpendicular with the bend controlled by the extra mount/bearing in the middle to the chassis. In order to tighten the carbon shaft, I had to rotate the shaft and tighten the bolts on both ends little by little until the surfaces made full contact before final tightening.

I think both of the above are simply due to the difference of 1-piece vs 2 piece shaft. Not saying it's the case here, but I can imagine if a mechanic did something improper during installation, they can damage the joints in the carbon shaft and it will not work right.

Just to reiterate, I am not saying who is right or who is wrong but just giving a little bit my humble opinion/experience on the matter that might be helpful to others.

[Throatpunch]

Originally Posted by Redd

There's also a learning here for MFactory. At some point they need to invest in a US stockist to take care of these types of requests as their business grows.

The only problem if I don't think mfactory has enough capital to stock warehouse shelves. That's why groupbuys are formed to.reduce production risk to the seller while giving the buyer a discount

If I'm wrong mfactory should contact turn14 lol

[Delete]

If I was in your situation I would have just removed the shaft initially and took it down to a drive shaft shop paid somewhere around $90 that's what it cost around here and would have had definite proof. Yes it is a pain and more money than you really wanted to pay but look where you're at now going back and forth on the internet.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by MFactory

Replying on the forum I can do on my PC in the office, my PC in the house and on my phone if I'm lying in bed; this is how I'm able to reply to emails within a few hours 7 days per week, regardless of timezone, regardless of country, regardless of work time or personal time. This does NOT mean I'm going to talk on the phone with my family fast asleep next to me, on a plane etc etc. I will talk on the phone during work hours (in MY timezone, which is +8 GMT) in the language of my choosing.

I dedicate 24/7/365 to customer service, yet I'm offering "bad customer service" simply because I do not feel comfortable talking in English over the phone? I'm not "defending" my stance as there is nothing for me to defend; this is what it is, and if customers cannot accept having to buy a driveshaft off a company that can only reply within a few hours 24/7/365 via email for the past 17 years non-stop, then I cannot help them with a carbon driveshaft unfortunately. This is the caveat for wanting to purchase the #1 carbon driveshaft for the M3. Anything else, I can and will always go above and beyond to accomodate our customers.

Besides, when they contact me via email, my full signature is there along with our office number. They can call the office at anytime during work hours if it was urgent (which a lot of customers do) and have front office connect the call and, if it was regarding LSD's/Pumpkins, they can contact our US facility during work hours and talk English/Spanish to their hearts content.

honestly pay no mind to the language thing, some people are just ignorant to the fact speaking and typing in English are two different things. my native language is khmer/chinese and English being third. when i speak English over the phone it is not as clear as my emails or messages, in which i always reply - please see my follow up email so you are not lost in translation with me. cause i tend to sometimes choke up and just end up mixing my English with my native language lol.

So if a person can't respect my decision to just talk via email due to a language barrier that is on the customer. especially if you already made it clear.

[Audi5000s]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

MFactoruy has stated him self that his direct contact was in his email to you, why not just call him at the time? your mechanic was checking the car out.

NA offices is in california if i remember correct.

Nobody is willing to get on a call with me or my mechanic. I called the office in CA a few weeks ago and they said that I need to email. That is part of my frustration is that the only communication is through email. It's inefficient in my opinion, but I get the language barrier now. Still not ideal, but it is what it is.

[Audi5000s]

Originally Posted by Mog-10

If I was in your situation I would have just removed the shaft initially and took it down to a drive shaft shop paid somewhere around $90 that's what it cost around here and would have had definite proof. Yes it is a pain and more money than you really wanted to pay but look where you're at now going back and forth on the internet.

I think I'm going to go this direction. Thanks.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

honestly pay no mind to the language thing, some people are just ignorant to the fact speaking and typing in English are two different things. my native language is khmer/chinese and English being third. when i speak English over the phone it is not as clear as my emails or messages, in which i always reply - please see my follow up email so you are not lost in translation with me. cause i tend to sometimes choke up and just end up mixing my English with my native language lol.

So if a person can't respect my decision to just talk via email due to a language barrier that is on the customer. especially if you already made it clear.

Spot on. I worked with a Chinese guy who you couldn't understand anything he said in English, and not just the accent. But his written English was college-level perfection. It was a strange paradox.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Spot on. I worked with a Chinese guy who you couldn't understand anything he said in English, and not just the accent. But his written English was college-level perfection. It was a strange paradox.

English is simultaneously a dumb and amazing language

I really like my driveshaft

[Throatpunch]

Originally Posted by richbot

english is simultaneously a dumb and amazing language

i really like my driveshaft

😂😂😂😂

[Redd]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Spot on. I worked with a Chinese guy who you couldn't understand anything he said in English, and not just the accent. But his written English was college-level perfection. It was a strange paradox.

It's very common in most countries, including mine, to study English as a second language in schools. To pass exams, your spelling and grammar have to be textbook perfect. Better than some native English speakers, in fact (we know the difference between your and you're).

But many of these countries don't speak English daily, so conversational skills can be very rudimentary. Mainly limited to ordering food and cussing out people (the first thing any non-native English speaker learns lol). Certainly not enough to have an engineering troubleshooting session. Add to the fact that technical terms sometimes don't directly translate into foreign languages, e.g. brake caliper in Cantonese (a Chinese dialect) translated to English means 'abalone' (a seafood).

Sorry for the tangent. Thought might be interesting knowledge.

[stimey]

Originally Posted by MFactory

Replying on the forum I can do on my PC in the office, my PC in the house and on my phone if I'm lying in bed; this is how I'm able to reply to emails within a few hours 7 days per week, regardless of timezone, regardless of country, regardless of work time or personal time. This does NOT mean I'm going to talk on the phone with my family fast asleep next to me, on a plane etc etc. I will talk on the phone during work hours (in MY timezone, which is +8 GMT) in the language of my choosing.

I dedicate 24/7/365 to customer service, yet I'm offering "bad customer service" simply because I do not feel comfortable talking in English over the phone? I'm not "defending" my stance as there is nothing for me to defend; this is what it is, and if customers cannot accept having to buy a driveshaft off a company that can only reply within a few hours 24/7/365 via email for the past 17 years non-stop, then I cannot help them with a carbon driveshaft unfortunately. This is the caveat for wanting to purchase the #1 carbon driveshaft for the M3. Anything else, I can and will always go above and beyond to accomodate our customers.

Besides, when they contact me via email, my full signature is there along with our office number. They can call the office at anytime during work hours if it was urgent (which a lot of customers do) and have front office connect the call and, if it was regarding LSD's/Pumpkins, they can contact our US facility during work hours and talk English/Spanish to their hearts content.

this is it, my hesitation for buying from an overseas company. not saying they're a bad company or have bad products but IF there are issues then, we'll it's what we have here.

[kyrix1st]

Sounds like this may be a case of manufacturing variance with the car condition as a variable.

NVH level from harmonic vibration is also dependent on its surrounding dampers, so it would have been helpful to know what the OP could have done to address or minimize the NVH issues.

[Audi5000s]

Update.

Sorry for the silence. I’ve been trying to work out a solution with YCW and have recently got over a bout with COVID. Here is my update.
I took the driveshaft to an independent driveshaft specialist for their opinion in October (their findings below). I asked them if this was an improper install or something from the factory. Without a doubt, they said this is a defective driveshaft from the factory and it could not have been caused by improper installation.

YCW agreed to ship the driveshaft to China for their review back in November. I just heard from them that they are considering it an improper install. I had an Indy shop install it.

So, that’s that. Case closed. I lose out on an expensive carbon driveshaft. I just wanted to update the group and hope it helps someone out there. Don’t make an expensive mistake.