My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[rhyary]

I now have in inventory front and rear speed sensors from FCP Euro. in my case it turned out to be the hub itself. But I kept the sensors. The error was speed sensor

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by gqeyes

Thank you sir!!! I will be installing MCS 3WR soon, I already had a bit rub on my fender liner with 275/35/18 a7 on a 18*10 rim, so as long as it's not rubbing crazily, Im not too worried about it. Do you feel like the car would gain more on the turn comparing to 285 over 275 squared on stock power wise?

285s will rub the fender liners even more.

I have MCS 3-way. I like them. You can run a 10.5" rim in the front with a 295/30/18 Hoosier. But you gotta run a 5" spring with no helper to get the perch up and out of the way of the rim and tire.

Every time I have run a wider tire on the car, it has increased the car's performance. My car would benefit from cutting the fenders and going widebody to put 345 Hoosiers or 325 Pirellis. But I like how the car looks now and I don't want to butcher its looks. But I'm definitely giving up performance by not having the fatter tires.

Right now, the highest performing tire that I know of that I can run on my car is a 305/645/18 Pirelli DH in a square setup. Everything else is either a slower compound (Hoosier A7, Yoko A005, Hankook slicks) or the wrong sizing (Michelin slicks). I like the square setup because I can rotate the tires freely around the car and get more life from the [expensive] tires.

[roastbeef]

does the 305/645/19 DH run kinda narrow or something?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

does the 305/645/19 DH run kinda narrow or something?

At least the 275, 285, and 305 DH run narrow. Probably all DH.

[leftfootbr8king]

Originally Posted by dogbone

285s will rub the fender liners even more.

I have MCS 3-way. I like them. You can run a 10.5" rim in the front with a 295/30/18 Hoosier. But you gotta run a 5" spring with no helper to get the perch up and out of the way of the rim and tire.

Every time I have run a wider tire on the car, it has increased the car's performance. My car would benefit from cutting the fenders and going widebody to put 345 Hoosiers or 325 Pirellis. But I like how the car looks now and I don't want to butcher its looks. But I'm definitely giving up performance by not having the fatter tires.

Right now, the highest performing tire that I know of that I can run on my car is a 305/645/18 Pirelli DH in a square setup. Everything else is either a slower compound (Hoosier A7, Yoko A005, Hankook slicks) or the wrong sizing (Michelin slicks). I like the square setup because I can rotate the tires freely around the car and get more life from the [expensive] tires.

How badly would a 305/660 DH rub with your current set up? (Understanding you have no fender liners)

[Kelse92]

In my experience the Pirelli slicks run narrow and the Yokohama’s run even narrower. Michelins are more on the wide side.
Trying the A005’s on the FRS soon, they’re supposed to be faster than the DH’s I had heard… Which compound were you running? I have some mediums.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

How badly would a 305/660 DH rub with your current set up? (Understanding you have no fender liners)

I don’t think I’d run 660—-I suspect it would get tall and start rubbing the fuel filler tube when the suspension compresses. I had fuel filler tube rubbing with the yoko 300/650/18, so I have to imagine a 660 would make it worse.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

In my experience the Pirelli slicks run narrow and the Yokohama’s run even narrower. Michelins are more on the wide side.
Trying the A005’s on the FRS soon, they’re supposed to be faster than the DH’s I had heard… Which compound were you running? I have some mediums.

Pirellis seem to run narrow. A 305 Pirelli is a bit narrower than a 295 A7 and a WHOLE INCH narrower than Yoko 300/650/18.

Michelin 27 is pretty skinny. The Michelin 30 seems pretty fat. Sizing is just wrong for our E9x M3 from what I can tell. Nothing like a 28 or 29 available. (In Michelin land 27 = 270)

I have run Yoko Super Soft, Soft and A80 hard. In my experience on the E9x M3 platform, the Yokos are not faster than DH. In Nov 2020 at Chuckwalla, I had brand new Yoko A005 fronts. Ran them as hard as I could. Then later in the day in hotter air, put DH scrubs on and ran 2 seconds faster on the DH……Yokos braked nicely, but just couldn’t hold in the corners like the DH.

[gqeyes]

Originally Posted by dogbone

285s will rub the fender liners even more.

I have MCS 3-way. I like them. You can run a 10.5" rim in the front with a 295/30/18 Hoosier. But you gotta run a 5" spring with no helper to get the perch up and out of the way of the rim and tire.

Every time I have run a wider tire on the car, it has increased the car's performance. My car would benefit from cutting the fenders and going widebody to put 345 Hoosiers or 325 Pirellis. But I like how the car looks now and I don't want to butcher its looks. But I'm definitely giving up performance by not having the fatter tires.

Right now, the highest performing tire that I know of that I can run on my car is a 305/645/18 Pirelli DH in a square setup. Everything else is either a slower compound (Hoosier A7, Yoko A005, Hankook slicks) or the wrong sizing (Michelin slicks). I like the square setup because I can rotate the tires freely around the car and get more life from the [expensive] tires.

Totally agreed! squared set up last year has saved me at least half of the tire money and a bunch of rear tires lol.I will be using 2.25' springs with helper, and I have a set of 5' and 10' spacers in the garage so I will definitely see how they goes. Thanks so much for all the info!!!

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by gqeyes

Totally agreed! squared set up last year has saved me at least half of the tire money and a bunch of rear tires lol.I will be using 2.25' springs with helper, and I have a set of 5' and 10' spacers in the garage so I will definitely see how they goes. Thanks so much for all the info!!!

I use a 5mm spacer to clear the supercharger intake. To go with a big fat tire, you can’t use too much spacer because you’ll start hitting the fender. Honestly, just ditch the helper. It does nothing for driving. People worry about the spring unseating on droop. I think I’ve heard the spring unseat once in like 7 years of running without a helper. If you reallllly want a helper just to never have an unseat, you can get a slinky-like helper from Hyperco. Like this: Hyperco Zero Rate Helper

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by dogbone

haha solve one problem------another shows up.....

ABS freaked out and flat spotted my tires in the first session on Saturday. Changed tires and the car ran ok in the second session. But the car is back at the shop to change out wheel speed sensors and see if there are any grounding issues that can be found. The code reader said something about voltage too high in the ABS system.

I'll try to write up more later.

It's ossible the alternator or voltage regulator is your culprit on this one.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Michelin 27 is pretty skinny. The Michelin 30 seems pretty fat. Sizing is just wrong for our E9x M3 from what I can tell. Nothing like a 28 or 29 available. (In Michelin land 27 = 270)

Here's their latest .pdf 2021 Racing Catalog (at link below) in case it helps with sizing and other info. Some of their 27/65-R18s are between 284mm to 299mm section widths, whereas their 30/65-R18s can run as wide 329mm section widths.
.
Catalog
https://michelinracingusa.com/race-t...talog-2021.pdf
.
Where to buy:
https://www.subesports.com/products/.../michelin+race
.
More Info:
https://michelinracingusa.com/race-tires/
.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by dogbone

haha solve one problem------another shows up.....

ABS freaked out and flat spotted my tires in the first session on Saturday. Changed tires and the car ran ok in the second session. But the car is back at the shop to change out wheel speed sensors and see if there are any grounding issues that can be found. The code reader said something about voltage too high in the ABS system.

I'll try to write up more later.

What have you not changed in your car? Lol, maybe it's simpler to go through and just replace everything that you haven't done yet. Ship of Theseus your car hah.

[Shmelgy]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I don't think I'd run 660—-I suspect it would get tall and start rubbing the fuel filler tube when the suspension compresses. I had fuel filler tube rubbing with the yoko 300/650/18, so I have to imagine a 660 would make it worse.

I can confirm this. I had to run Hankooks for a race, and all they had available was 285/660/18. It ate through my fuel filler at Laguna (turn 6 and corkscrew)

Never had a problem with 305/645/18 Pirelli DH on identical suspension settings

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Here's their latest .pdf 2021 Racing Catalog (at link below) in case it helps with sizing and other info. Some of their 27/65-R18s are between 284mm to 299mm section widths, whereas their 30/65-R18s can run as wide 329mm section widths.
.
Catalog
https://michelinracingusa.com/race-t...talog-2021.pdf
.
Where to buy:
https://www.subesports.com/products/.../michelin+race
.
More Info:
https://michelinracingusa.com/race-tires/
.

Thanks for posting this. I guess my statement above doesn't really reflect that I've run Michelin 27/65/18 S9L (hard compounds) on a 10.5" rim. They had some stretch happening on a 10.5" rim. They looked pretty skinny. I did not feel like I was maximizing the tire width that I can put on my car. By comparison, the 295/30/18 Hoosier A7 really feels like I'm getting to the limit of rubber sizing on the car as it sits now. I just went to TireRack and looked at Hoosier specs. They say a 295/30/18 A7 has a section width of 294mm on a 10" rim. The A7 295 is a LOT fatter on my rim than the Michelin 27/65/18. Yet, the Michelin sheet you posted says they should be very similar......I just haven't seen that in my experience.

Honestly, at the end of the day, you gotta mount a tire on a rim you use, put it on the car and see what it actually looks like on your setup. It's kinda sad to say, but the specs just don't tell the whole story....

There are various used tire vendors out there that sell most of the racing tire brands and models as scrubs. It's not expensive to test fit and see.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by redpriest

What have you not changed in your car? Lol, maybe it's simpler to go through and just replace everything that you haven't done yet. Ship of Theseus your car hah.

I was just having this conversation with someone the other day. A lot has been changed/swapped/replaced on the car. The main things that haven't been changed are---the rear axles, the ABS system, the brake master cylinder, the drive shaft, the ECU, the front uprights, the wiring. Most everything else has been swapped out, replaced or upgraded.

At this point, the car has been around long enough that even some the things that have been replaced are wearing out.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Thanks for posting this. I guess my statement above doesn't really reflect that I've run Michelin 27/65/18 S9L (hard compounds) on a 10.5" rim. They had some stretch happening on a 10.5" rim. They looked pretty skinny. I did not feel like I was maximizing the tire width that I can put on my car. By comparison, the 295/30/18 Hoosier A7 really feels like I'm getting to the limit of rubber sizing on the car as it sits now. I just went to TireRack and looked at Hoosier specs. They say a 295/30/18 A7 has a section width of 294mm on a 10" rim. The A7 295 is a LOT fatter on my rim than the Michelin 27/65/18. Yet, the Michelin sheet you posted says they should be very similar......I just haven't seen that in my experience.

Honestly, at the end of the day, you gotta mount a tire on a rim you use, put it on the car and see what it actually looks like on your setup. It's kinda sad to say, but the specs just don't tell the whole story....

There are various used tire vendors out there that sell most of the racing tire brands and models as scrubs. It's not expensive to test fit and see.

The problem is that the Michelins have such a trapezoidal shape that the section width is very large but then the sidewall tapers down to a tiny contact patch, and then you can’t run anything larger than the 270 treaded tire on the 10.5. I found the medium compound 270 Mich to be about the same pace as the 305 DH, but it lasted about 1/4-1/3 as long and was more entry understeery on the same setup. DH just seem like the best bet.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

DH just seem like the best bet.

After all the tires I've tried, this is the conclusion I've come to as well. I like the feel, the predicability, the feedback, the fitment, the lap times, the longevity. hehe just wish they were cheaper....

Global Time Attack SuperLap Battle at COTA in February will not have the Yokohama tire requirement because there's no available stock. I plan on running new DH there. Really hope it can all work out.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by dogbone

There are various used tire vendors out there that sell most of the racing tire brands and models as scrubs. It's not expensive to test fit and see.

Sounds like an S7M or S8M test fit might be worthwhile since your experience has shown they run skinny.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

I found the medium compound 270 Mich to be about the same pace as the 305 DH

Dang I new they were fast, but a 270 as quick as a 305..

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Sounds like an S7M or S8M test fit might be worthwhile since your experience has shown they run skinny.

I haven't explored or run Michelin slicks in 4 or 5 years, so I don't know what the current story on them is, but back when I was looking into them, I heard that the S7 Softs were very hard to come by in the size I needed. I don't know if that's still the case. I don't see the 27/65/18 S7 listed on the SubeSports website. I bought my S9's in person at the SubeSports shop back when I ran them. Nice guys. As far as the S8 Mediums, they show the same size spec as the S9 which I have run.

Anyway, not too excited to put the Michelins on. I hear that the S8's are nice and quick when new, but then drop off a cliff. Plus, if Bartledoo is right and they only last a fraction of the life span of DH, then I'm just not super interested. The DH stay fast for quite a few time attack style sessions.

For me, DH is the measuring stick. I run Yoko because I have to for GTA--they're not as fast. I run Hoosier A7 for NASA because I have to in terms of classing into TT1---they're not as fast. In NASA-land, slicks dump me into TTU. I have no reason to run Michelins. I mean----if I could fit 30/65/18 S8 square on my car, I would definitely try that. But I don't think they would fit up front. Not even sure they would fit in the rear......

[dogbone]

Last weekend at the NASA TT was short because I ran out of there after two sessions to drop the car off at EAS, but it was a nice event and I have a couple things to share.

-The Flatspot: The code scanner showed a high voltage error code in the ABS. I don't really know what to say about it, so the video probably will do the best job. I was on the out lap of the first session of the day, going into Cotton Corners at a real mellow pace. Just touched the brake---nothing crazy. And instantly the cabin filled with tire smoke. The front right tire showed some cording. We are investigating if the other tires locked up too. Unfortunately, I don't have AIM CAN data from the first session. If I did, I could look and see what tires locked up.

After the lockup, there were a bunch of lights and errors. I came into the pit, turned the car off, jumped out and checked the tires, and went back out. I wanted to get a qualifying lap if possible. The car was vibrating from the flatspotting, but it ran fine from a braking standpoint. Got a qualy lap.

Flatspot vid: In this vid, I started it from pit exit so that people could see the A-section at a mellow speed.

The interesting thing is that I had already warmed up the brakes on the track entry road. Everything had been fine out there. Anyway, I've asked EAS to dive in and see what they could find. We are replacing all 4 wheel speed sensors. And we're looking at the alternator and voltage regulator and wiring and grounding. The brake booster limp mode error happens occasionally on the first start up of the day. I feel like something just needs to checked out in the grounding/wiring/etc.

-The NASA event: This was my first time running with NASA SoCal. Nice people. The competition was pretty mellow at this event. Whatever, the competition wasn't really my main concern. But it was nice to grid first and have a chance at open laps. (I've looked at past NASA SoCal TT results, and there's a guy (Jon von Canegham) that shows up with a Ginetta G57 LMP2 car......runs 10-12 seconds faster than anything else. But he wasn't there.)

Since this was my first time driving this configuration........it was a personal best! Yay! Honestly, my driving was not the best due to being distracted with flatspotting and transmissions, etc. I never properly learned the A-section feature, but I liked it. Would like to run it again. For the 2nd session, I connected the AIM to the car, so I got data from my fast lap.......oof.....did I mention that this was not the best driving?.......Anyway, here's the lap:

-The transmission: Someone commented on my YouTube lap vid that the clutches sounded like they were slightly slipping......sigh....I understand what he's saying. Now I'm suuuuper sesnitive to it. And the data shows it just a little bit, but nothing major. I am torn about what to do. The transmission is working. But is it proper? Don't know. Will soul search and consider the new clutches again. But I gotta make a decision quickly.


-New laptop: After 10 years, I finally replaced the crappy netbook with a real Dell--an Inspiron 14" Intel i5 machine. To be fair, the netbook was purchased 10 years ago to simply read codes with the Bavarian Technic cable and flash the supercharger tune. It didn't even have a full version of Windows on it. It was quite humble.

My hope going in with this new laptop was that I could load it up with enough things that I wouldn't have to bring my stupid-expensive Mac laptop on my track trips anymore. The Mac is an 8-core Intel i9 beast that costs almost $4k. I have always hated doing track trips with such an expensive laptop, but it was the only computer I had that could do everything I needed. I don't leave it anywhere.....I'm always carting it around out of paranoia. It's a pain on airplanes because I don't check bags, so my suitcase is one bag, my track/electronic gear bag is bag #2......and now what do I do with the laptop bag? Usually, I'm trying to stuff it in the suitcase.....pain in the ass. The Dell was $630 and doesn't need its own bag.....just dump it in the gear bag.

I am happy to report the Dell is great and will be able to handle all Mac tasks without any troubles:
-AIM software duties
-has a built in micro-SD slot for GoPro vids
-Race Render
-Photoshop
-Adobe Premier (for putting the intros on the lap videos)
-Dell's Mobile Connect allows easy access to the iPhone so I can pull pix and vids from it.
-Dropbox makes it easy to transfer things around if needed.

I was wondering if the Dell would be painful when making videos with RaceRender. The result was actually quite shocking. I did a side-by-side test between the i9 Mac and the i5 Dell-----the Dell renders RaceRender videos twice as fast as the Mac.......I was like uhhhhhhh wut is happening......I would love to get an explanation of why that is the case.....The Mac should be quite a bit faster.....(I'm typing this post on the Dell. Enjoying it.)

So, I'm looking forward to leaving the Mac home on the next trip. And it's nice to know that I have a computer that can do remote coding if necessary.

-Error code tool: I am happy to have a robust error code tool finally. I have a Launch X431 Mini 3.0. StripClubDJ at EAS uses one. I just followed his lead. The Bavarian Technic cable couldn't even read transmission codes.....


I have been trying to figure out the schedule of how to get to Texas for Super Lap. There are some DE events in the weeks prior. Unfortunately, the Chin days are sold out. I've emailed Edge Addicts to see what's the story there, but haven't heard back yet. Anyway, lotttttts to do in the next month.