HPDE experiments, results and observations

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

It's actually soooo much cheaper than what you are doing if they last longer than RS4, as advertised. Then you would also have excellent tires as well, and save time and money constantly mounting sets of tires.

Also, I purchased from Phil's Tire Service.

You don't know that.
you are guessing.
.
You say "if they last longer…"
what if they are not?


.
And a few posts down the road it becomes a fact that the Force last longer at the same lap time. IF they can do the same lap time as RE-71R
.
and then you asking if I am trolling.

I am not.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Are these reviews means nothing?
There are good reviews on the AR-1

http://speed.academy/100-tread-wear-...c1-toyo-r888r/

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-review-2.html

Well I tried them for myself. Compared to the OG NT01 and their 200 tw ns2r. The AR1's were not all that great. Their ns2r's were crap lol

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

Well I tried them for myself. Compared to the OG NT01 and their 200 tw ns2r. The AR1's were not all that great. Their ns2r's were crap lol

Same and I also watched the reviews - which were the reason I bought them in the first place. They sounded great based on what Robert said when he ran them on the XX31 E92 M3, but after trying them I have to disagree. Compared to other popular 100tw options, the AR1 was a massive disappointment. No faster then NT01, and heat cycled out wayyyy quicker. And after ~10ish head cycles, they fell off a cliff. NT01 and RR's are way more consistent, with the NT01's being fast till you cord them.

I tried 2 sets of AR1's, because the first were so bad, I surely thought I got a bad batch. But no, the 2nd set was more of the same. I'll never be buying them again, when tires like the NT01 and RR exist - I wouldn't even bother at 50% off because they last less then 50% as long lol.

If you're looking to try to the tire just to try and it and see how fast it is, sure. But it's not going to be a good option if you want a fast (subjective) tire that lasts well and is good value.

[rhyary]

First hand experience here is good enough for me and this is an excellent feed back. I don't have a desire to try these at full price since at that price I already like the RT660.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Same and I also watched the reviews - which were the reason I bought them in the first place. They sounded great based on what Robert said when he ran them on the XX31 E92 M3, but after trying them I have to disagree. Compared to other popular 100tw options, the AR1 was a massive disappointment. No faster then NT01, and heat cycled out wayyyy quicker. And after ~10ish head cycles, they fell off a cliff. NT01 and RR's are way more consistent, with the NT01's being fast till you cord them.

I tried 2 sets of AR1's, because the first were so bad, I surely thought I got a bad batch. But no, the 2nd set was more of the same. I'll never be buying them again, when tires like the NT01 and RR exist - I wouldn't even bother at 50% off because they last less then 50% as long lol.

If you're looking to try to the tire just to try and it and see how fast it is, sure. But it's not going to be a good option if you want a fast (subjective) tire that lasts well and is good value.

I'm in agreement from my experience with AR-1, and NT01. I'm actually partial to NT01 over RR as well because I like to ignore heat cycles on heavy wear rubber. I really liked the Continental Force and believe I can run them at the same pace as NT01 without much trouble.

Now I've dabbled into the R7 land, I'm sure A7 and non DOT slicks will come into play over the next year+. Right now I don't mind paying the premium for R7 to get predictability and consistency from a proper race tire vs the field. Even if they slow down, I like practicing and finding their limit as they HC out. Generally the rubber is still wearing well!

Excited to try the new Eagle RS slick.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I'm in agreement from my experience with AR-1, and NT01. I'm actually partial to NT01 over RR as well because I like to ignore heat cycles on heavy wear rubber. I really liked the Continental Force and believe I can run them at the same pace as NT01 without much trouble.

Now I've dabbled into the R7 land, I'm sure A7 and non DOT slicks will come into play over the next year+. Right now I don't mind paying the premium for R7 to get predictability and consistency from a proper race tire vs the field. Even if they slow down, I like practicing and finding their limit as they HC out. Generally the rubber is still wearing well!

Excited to try the new Eagle RS slick.

That exciting to hear about the Conti's - how did wear compare between it and the Nittos?

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by tsk94

That exciting to hear about the Conti's - how did wear compare between it and the Nittos?

I don't have that data yet. I bought a set to use while a couple friends drove my car at high plains. They were very novice so aside from one that was pushing the tires a bit, I only ever did 3 2 lap sessions showing them the line and then handed them the car for the day. I think the fastest lap was 2:00 (with passenger) I can absolutely take those tires to 1:58 which is consistent with NT01.

I had my Solo in the car. I'll check data against similar laps. Cumulative Gs, and the like.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

It makes sense if you understand that I buy $132/tire for cost effective and the tire objective is to be "good enough".

When I talk about full priced 100tw tire, I wonder how fast they are, not how cheap they are to run.

Some of you are convinced that $182 RE-71R and S007 $132/tire is more expensive than full priced Force because of the longevity of the advertised Force. But you are just guessing, because longevity is function of weight and pace and driving style.

I have said it number of times through out this thread, I do a lot of trackdays. And I have many objectives. Some of you find it confusing and I understand that.

I’m not guessing. I’ve run all of the tires discussed above except for S007. I’ve run RS4 on multiple cars including in endurance racing. My original track tires were RS4 and they are still the tires I drive on the street and to the track. In fact, my friend burnt up his tires in the first session of the last track day I was at, and I let him use my old af RS4’s for the entire day before I drove home on them. They just stop wearing after a certain number of HC lol. The Force tires wear like that too.

Of course, we apparently live in different universes when it comes to physics and all of that kind of stuff

You want a fast non-slick tire that’s consistent get the Supercar 3R. Or say I’m wrong and buy something silly.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

You want a fast non-slick tire that’s consistent get the Supercar 3R. Or say I’m wrong and buy something silly.

The 3R's are a DREAM. Sucks they're on backorder. I've been searching for a month now. Harder than finding a PS5!

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Of course, we apparently live in different universes when it comes to physics and all of that kind of stuff

You want a fast non-slick tire that's consistent get the Supercar 3R. Or say I'm wrong and buy something silly.

I am definitely planning on getting the F1 Supercar 3 and Supercar 3R for going fast on full priced tires. Good to know you had good experience on those.

But as the price creeps up toward the R7 and A7, I might as well get those. I had really great time on R7 set.

The RS4 don't have the 19" sizes I need.
The Force has 295/30/19 or 315/30/19 for rear and it is not my preferred sizes.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I don't have that data yet. I bought a set to use while a couple friends drove my car at high plains. They were very novice so aside from one that was pushing the tires a bit, I only ever did 3 2 lap sessions showing them the line and then handed them the car for the day. I think the fastest lap was 2:00 (with passenger) I can absolutely take those tires to 1:58 which is consistent with NT01.

I had my Solo in the car. I'll check data against similar laps. Cumulative Gs, and the like.

Here's a couple data a screen shots of like laps across tires at HPR. All with the same aero, brake pads, power levels, etc. -

Laps / Tires:
1:59.6 AR-1
2:00.3 Continental Force
2:00.3 NT01

The last Lap compare profile and XY plot is the Continental Force vs a Hoosier R7 with around > 12 heat cycles. Note these laps a are on the SAME DAY.
2:00.3 Cont Force, #2360
1:54.6 R7, #2369

I think the Continental is a very capable tire. Worth consideration.

[rhyary]

stepping away from all the drama and the cost savings suggestions, the economic calculations and lessons in physics. Here is the reality for getting 2022 starting/

I have:
8 x S007 275/35/19 for the rear and
8 x RE-71R 265/35/19 for the front.

Until I try and see how this set performs, I would not know if this is good, bad or indifference. It will be consistence set over few trackdays. I might even dedicate this combination to a specific track such as PMP or LRP.

I have few 285/30/19 for the front that I do know what I can expect and they fine to go out and have fun. They are good for NYST. RE-050a, MPSS, SO-04.

I have few sets of 295/30/19 that are good with 285/30/19 front, but I don't like how they feel with the 265/35/19 up front. I also don't like to run the short 295 on big track such as WGI
RR, Corsa 2, MPSS


I have quite a few days at WGI which I tried and liked the Corsa 2 305/30/19 on the rear.
I have 4 of those saved for WGI

Overall, I have enough tires for 2022.

As a side note, no eBay tires.
It turns out that waiting for Tire Rack sale and getting new tires is a better idea than buying used tires from eBay.

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

The 3R's are a DREAM. Sucks they're on backorder. I've been searching for a month now. Harder than finding a PS5!

What hot pressures do you run on the 3R?

And OP, what's your 2022 plan to break 60 seconds at LRP?

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

What hot pressures do you run on the 3R?

And OP, what's your 2022 plan to break 60 seconds at LRP?

I've ran them as low as 34 and high as 36. Still experimenting on psi's w my tpms system. Best times were in the 34 range

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

What hot pressures do you run on the 3R?

And OP, what's your 2022 plan to break 60 seconds at LRP?

My plan is to break 60sec at LRP on 200tw-300tw tire

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by rhyary

My plan is to break 60sec at LRP on 200tw-300tw tire

Probably a 40tw on the back and 300tw all season on the front. But who's counting

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Probably a 40tw on the back and 300tw all season on the front. But who's counting

The 560tw DWS Plus UHP All season on the front was a major disappointment. I thought the 40* f will be cold enough for UHP All season. But I melted it.

The ride to LRP on UHP All Season was wonderful since the day started on 25*.

I am still on a plan to try the UHP All season in the rain. But as far as temp go, it was a failure.

Melted UHP All season
.
Picture after one session. Perhaps more air pressure would have saved the edge better? But you can see damage extends into the outer 1/3rd

This is LRP. The tire looks like after a whole day in NYST.
.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

The 560tw DWS Plus UHP All season on the front was a major disappointment. I thought the 40* f will be cold enough for UHP All season. But I melted it.

The ride to LRP on UHP All Season was wonderful since the day started on 25*.

I am still on a plan to try the UHP All season in the rain. But as far as temp go, it was a failure.

Melted UHP All season
.
Picture after one session. Perhaps more air pressure would have saved the edge better? But you can see damage extends into the outer 1/3rd

This is LRP. The tire looks like after a whole day in NYST.
.

Of course an all season got melted. A race tire can easily be brought up to temp in 40deg weather, and an all season can easily be overheated, especially the way you hammer the small front tires.

[dparm]

I have the DWS06 Plus as my street / very wet track tires (e.g., standing water and sustained rain). Haven't had a chance to really try it out, but on the street, it was a very reasonable tire.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dparm

I have the DWS06 Plus as my street / very wet track tires (e.g., standing water and sustained rain). Haven't had a chance to really try it out, but on the street, it was a very reasonable tire.

Agree. I like the DWS06 plus on the street and to and from the track. The DWS was 285/30/19.

My problem is that early spring, late fall I am leaving my house in temps in the low 20s and I am nervous on summer tire/200tw tires. So I wanted to try the all season.

But than if sunny, it warms up to 40s.

Pace was 61 sec.

Only the front melted. The rear were fine.

my first 2021 PMP day was in 25* and sunny.

[rhyary]

Wow!!!
Looks like PMP.

Is he on this forum?

[rhyary]

Because stiffer…

Thank you Autocouture.