Cracked Vanos Hub Cover

[Redd]

I've gotten some quotes back from suppliers (China) - 60mm x 12mm (M12) x 2mm flat round washer made in Ti Gr2 will be USD160 for 10 sets (40 pcs) of washers, or USD16 per set of 4 washers. This is before shipping to me (Malaysia) and then shipping again to US.

Since this will be a custom batch, we can still modify the dimensions or material (steel?).

Are we keen? If yes I will need someone Stateside to receive the washers from me and then re-ship them to the other US buyers (I will pack them). Shipping individually from Malaysia is prohibitively expensive (as I found out when I did the custom washers for the rear spherical conversion).

I will be cost transparent as I don't intend to make any money off this, just doing it for the MOQ discount and the community.

Edit - Another supplier can do Ti Gr5 for USD135 for 40pcs (10 sets of 4pcs).

[Redd]

The red area is where a 60mm OD washer would cover.

60mm OD = 30mm radius = 1.18" = 1 3/16"

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Redd

The red area is where a 60mm OD washer would cover.

60mm OD = 30mm radius = 1.18" = 1 3/16"

Cheers Red. So 60mm seems ok but minium. Making sure the last turn is at least partly covered will secure the spring from moving as well provide good sleep for the owner.
I am interested in this but investigating a OEM type after market option in parallell. At this point I don't have a shop who'd take on the job and if I'm forced to do it myself I want to stay away from special tooling.

Thanks!

Ps. BTW was anyone able to clarify how the Dinan washers not squeez/lock the spring movement? Is the center hub is slighty higher? It doesn't look that way in the pictures, if not the solution would end up with yet another small/thin washer, which is OK I guess.

Edit: Ah, saw e92zero asked Ajolives in previous posts. Lets see if he comes back with yet another answer for us...:-)


Edit again (last time, promise): Etansinsta picture of the Dinan washer seems to answer the question, these seems to have a slightly thicker center to avoid touching the spring.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Cheers Red. So 60mm seems ok but minium. Making sure the last turn is at least partly covered will secure the spring from moving as well provide good sleep for the owner.
I am interested in this but investigating a OEM type after market option in parallell. At this point I don't have a shop who'd take on the job and if I'm forced to do it myself I want to stay away from special tooling.

Yeah you're looking into the Mr. Vanos one. Any update from them? Based on the insta pictures those look like they're 3D printed out of plastic. If so then u don't think they will last very long either.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Redd

Yeah you're looking into the Mr. Vanos one. Any update from them? Based on the insta pictures those look like they're 3D printed out of plastic. If so then u don't think they will last very long either.

Yeah thats one. Just chatted with them again and it turns out they make them them self (not sure if 3D) and are currently too busy to make more. They have one piece left + two used in assumingly good condition (blown motor). Placed a PO for those three as a back up. My M3 is the car I have and driving daily, currently sitting so need to get this sorted!

[Redd]

How much is Mr. Vanos charging you?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Redd

How much is Mr. Vanos charging you?

£180 for the three, again two are second hand. Believe they sold set with 4 (their own new) for £260 ish.

[buldogge]

What about a shallow "cup" made of 7075...The center can have a shallow hub to space from the vertical/outside spring surface, and the front can have a recess to accept the OE washer...The lip of the cup will cover some portion of the spring "OD"...???

We also have some magnesium laying around...lighter...but...not sure about using it in this application.

-Mark in St. Louis

[rantarM3]

It nags me that BMW used a "cover" instead of a flat retainer/washer, meaning that I wonder if there was some reason why the cover was deemed necessary here.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

It nags me that BMW used a "cover" instead of a flat retainer/washer, meaning that I wonder if there was some reason why the cover was deemed necessary here.

Some designs comes out less good with time, but not providing it with spare part support takes it imo from non optimal to arrogant.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Ajolives

Correct, got the below from my order.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...h/11367840998/

And did some reading and stainless steel should most definitely fine in this application. Works for exhausts - should be the same here as far as heat goes. Just begs the question of why did Carbahn make theirs so robust.

Hey Ajolives, maybe I lost it in the thread but although I see the center bolt is an M12 I also noticed its thicker close to the head, would it be possible for you to measure the exact diameter in that area? (Im thinking a washer would need a very tight hole in order to avoid in balance/wobble).

Thanks mate.

[Ajolives]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Cheers Red. So 60mm seems ok but minium. Making sure the last turn is at least partly covered will secure the spring from moving as well provide good sleep for the owner.
I am interested in this but investigating a OEM type after market option in parallell. At this point I don't have a shop who'd take on the job and if I'm forced to do it myself I want to stay away from special tooling.

Thanks!

Ps. BTW was anyone able to clarify how the Dinan washers not squeez/lock the spring movement? Is the center hub is slighty higher? It doesn't look that way in the pictures, if not the solution would end up with yet another small/thin washer, which is OK I guess.

Edit: Ah, saw e92zero asked Ajolives in previous posts. Lets see if he comes back with yet another answer for us...:-)


Edit again (last time, promise): Etansinsta picture of the Dinan washer seems to answer the question, these seems to have a slightly thicker center to avoid touching the spring.

Just saw this, I believe the spring is skinnier than the center mount area that it circles, so the washer it tight against the gear….I can check when I get home.

[Redd]

Starting a list to indicate interest in getting the flat washers done up.

Item = Flat round washer OD 60mm x 12mm M12 x 2mm
Material = Ti Gr5
Quantity = 4 pcs per set
MOQ = 10 sets (40 pcs)
Price = Approx. USD40 shipped (Item cost =$13.50 per set. The rest is shipping)

This item will be sold at true cost. No profits made by me.

1. Redd
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[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hey Ajolives, maybe I lost it in the thread but although I see the center bolt is an M12 I also noticed its thicker close to the head, would it be possible for you to measure the exact diameter in that area? (Im thinking a washer would need a very tight hole in order to avoid in balance/wobble).

Thanks mate.

You are definitely overthinking this.
1. The 28g weight of a steel cover from Dinan doesn't matter when you've got a 5kg VANOS gear sitting behind it.
2. The spring itself will not be balanced, and the washer has an insignificant mass compared to the spring. I'm sure there's a few other parts in the VANOS that are asymmetric, and therefore not balanced either.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Redd

Starting a list to indicate interest in getting the flat washers done up.

Item = Flat round washer OD 60mm x 12mm M12 x 2mm
Material = Ti Gr5
Quantity = 4 pcs per set
MOQ = 10 sets (40 pcs)
Price = Approx. USD40 shipped (Item cost =$13.50 per set. The rest is shipping)

This item will be sold at true cost. No profits made by me.

1. Redd
2. drlane
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

I'm down for a set at $40!

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

You are definitely overthinking this.
1. The 28g weight of a steel cover from Dinan doesn't matter when you've got a 5kg VANOS gear sitting behind it.
2. The spring itself will not be balanced, and the washer has an insignificant mass compared to the spring. I'm sure there's a few other parts in the VANOS that are asymmetric, and therefore not balanced either.

good point about the spring.

[e92zero]

Please put me down for 2 sets as I might build up a spare S65. Let me know if shipping is combined that way.

I have another question for the more knowledgeable engine builder here. If I lock the crank and the camshafts with the timing tool, and then I replace these covers one at a time without removing the vano gears. I should be able to put the washer on with new bolt and tigthen up to spec and not having to worry about the whole procedure of going to 10 degree, do the first round of tightening and loosening and go back to TDC and do the final tightening per the manual? Any one can confirm this?

Thanks.

[Redd]

Starting a list to indicate interest in getting the flat washers done up.

Item = Flat round washer OD 60mm x 12mm M12 x 2mm
Material = Ti Gr5
Quantity = 4 pcs per set
MOQ = 10 sets (40 pcs)
Price = Approx. USD40 shipped (Item cost =$13.50 per set. The rest is shipping)

This item will be sold at true cost. No profits made by me.

1. Redd
2. DRLane
3. e92zero
4. e92zero
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by e92zero

Please put me down for 2 sets as I might build up a spare S65. Let me know if shipping is combined that way.

Should not be an issue to combine shipping on 2 sets. My thought is to use a USPS prepaid envelope from US side to you. That's what I did last time for the tapered washers. I think that's USD8-10 anywhere in the US.

[Etansinsta]

I’m sure a few people may have covered this but I didn’t have much time to read each reply in detail.

With the washer seated directly against the gear, the spring can still function as necessary

The plastic cover I was told is for oil retention - if the spring wants to come off, there’s no way the plastic cover would hold it on when the gears are spinning.

The added weight of the washer over the plastic covers is negligible when compared the weight of the gears themselves - roughly 10 lbs

The gear bolts have no problem holding the metal covers in place - have a look at the torque figures

You don’t have to grind the timing covers down if you purchase the bolt optioned without the additional washer.

Please let me know what else I can answer.

I’ve put about 4k miles on the car since install and no problems whatsoever.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Redd

Should not be an issue to combine shipping on 2 sets. My thought is to use a USPS prepaid envelope from US side to you. That's what I did last time for the tapered washers. I think that's USD8-10 anywhere in the US.

I'm willing to be the shipping person stateside. Hopefully my itrader feedback and presence on the forum is trustworthy

[Redd]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I'm willing to be the shipping person stateside. Hopefully my itrader feedback and presence on the forum is trustworthy

Perfect! Thanks for that!