MFactory Carbon Driveshaft Issues

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdott

Agreed, it looks like they are saying you didn't provide information they were asking for?

At the same time they aren't saying what information they are asking for. It could be unreasonable or it could be reasonable. But they are choosing to dance around the topic and not address it.

For example what if they wanted you to prove it is out of balance? Even a shop will not have tools to check this. It's a DS.... aside from using the wrong bolts or bad hardware how can it be installed wrong? Changes are it could have been fine when it left the factory, but something happened during shipping. So you provide pictures of it installed and the condition it is in, it would be pretty clear if they installed the flexdisc in the wrong place or something?

Instead it sounds like they are choosing not to stand behind their product and put the burden on the customer to prove something unreasonable.

The driveshaft was making a noise. You are right. My mechanic isn't a driveshaft specific shop. All we could determine is that there is a noise coming from the driveshaft that was not there before. The owner of my shop also has a e92 M3 that is manual. I don't know what more MFactory was looking for.

Videos links below. The first video is with the wheel being rotated on the lift. The heatshielding and exhaust was in place.

The second video is after I took the car back again because it was too hard to determine if it was the driveshaft with the heat shielding in place and the exhaust in place.

The third video is the rebuilt driveshaft.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFactory

You wanted the direct line to our engineer. All of our engineers are Taiwanese and so do not really speak English very well, so if you wanted to communicate with them, you would need to speak Chinese. THAT is what I told you. I in no way shape or form refused to let you speak to them

You made several trips yet you STILL were not able to provide what I had asked you several times for I.e the exact process your mechanic went through to diagnose the issue. Only then can I recommend you a course of action to further investigate the issue. EVERY time I asked you for this information, you just replied that I'm not helping you.

If I was not willing to help you, I would not be entertaining your request to warrant an out-of-warranty product. That is simply not the case here and I am still offering to help you under warranty regardless

As mentioned, either you ask your mechanic to provide us with the requested details (pretty difficult now though seeing as you've already removed and installed another driveshaft. I guess he was willing to do that for you though as you paid him to do it) so that we can investigate further, or ship the driveshaft back to us so that we can inspect it on our balancing machine. We will not pay the shipping cost when we don't even know what the issue is.

Edit: There is Zero chance of me requesting for your mechanic to check the driveshaft on a balancing machine; I simply wouldn't do that. Any checks and diagnostics that I would have asked for are simple things that your mechanic would be able to perform and help us to further diagnose the issue, but need to know WHAT your mechanic has already tried. THAT is what I asked for multiple times. THAT is what you refused to give me multiple times

I understand that you were in a hurry to get your car back on the road, but that does not give you the right to a brand new driveshaft nor a refund, especially not on an out-of-warranty product

We are well known to go above and beyond for our customers (like providing a warranty regardless, paying shipping costs, repairing parts even when it was customer error etc), but just as you have the full right to "share" your experiences on a public forum to "warn" potential customers, we have the right not to go above and beyond for you

Regardless, I an still willing to help you under warranty, but that is as far as I'm obliged to go.

I didn't necessarily want a direct line to your engineers, I just wanted to speak to someone at MFactory about the issue vs. sending emails which was taking too much time. I gave you my personal cell number to try and resolve this. I didn't know what more I could provide you other that what we were specifically experiencing via my emails and the videos taken.

akkando · 10-06-2021, 07:40 AM

I've had a V3 on order for what feels like a year. The deposit was 50%. I have no idea when I'll get my drive shaft. This story is making me worry this is going to be a headache.

DRLane · 10-06-2021, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akkando

I've had a V3 on order for what feels like a year. The deposit was 50%. I have no idea when I'll get my drive shaft. This story is making me worry this is going to be a headache.

I've had the v2 installed for years on a heavily tracked SC car. No issues. For safety sake just get new bolts for the install.

amrazM · 10-06-2021, 08:14 AM

I’m not sure how a single piece driveshaft could produce a rotational sound. Something else is def going on here, furthermore being that I installed this driveshaft myself I’m well aware of how difficult it is to install this compared to an oem unit. Mistakes can be made in the installation due to the complexity of the job

nycplumber · 10-06-2021, 08:15 AM

Thanks for posting. The response from the vendor is embarrassing to say the least. I definitely wouldn't consider buying from them now

pooyab · 10-06-2021, 08:20 AM

Seems like an easy solution to me. MFactory sends OP a shipping label if he's adamant that it's the driveshaft at this point. Then MFactory either can warranty it if defective with a replacement or refund him minus return shipping cost if it's all ok and OP no longer wants it.

tdott · 10-06-2021, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooyab

Seems like an easy solution to me. MFactory sends OP a shipping label if he's adamant that it's the driveshaft at this point. Then MFactory either can warranty it if defective with a replacement or refund him minus return shipping cost if it's all ok and OP no longer wants it.

That would be the smart thing to do and avoid the potential bad press.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFactory

Due to differing timezones, it is far easier (and quicker) to communicate via email. Our US facility does not deal with the driveshafts, so you have to deal with our Taiwan facility

All that I asked for is for you to ask your mechanic exactly what process he done while diagnosing the issue to 100% determine it was the driveshaft at fault. Nothing more, nothing less. You could not provide this information, which ultimately led to this current unfortunate forum discussion

I just don't know what more I can provide. I noticed this new noise and took it back to the shop. They put it on a lift and rotated the driveshaft by rotating the wheel. There was a new noise coming from the driveshaft area. I brought the car home hoping to resolve this with you. You said it wasn't enough to show it was the driveshaft.

I brought the car back to the shop and they again put it on a lift. This time they removed the heat shield and exhaust. Once again the driveshaft was making this unusual noise. We don't know why it was making this noise, just that it was a new unusual noise.

Since we weren't making progress through our email discussions, I decided to throw in a rebuilt driveshaft to see if that resolved the issue. It resolved the issue.

I'll see what else I can get from my mechanic, but I have already relayed everything they've provided in terms of their diagnosis.

serranot · 10-06-2021, 09:29 AM

I have a V2 MFactory. I experienced some additional NVH in the 60-70mph range. Had the shop check installation on it; it was properly installed. Wrote it off to being a different material DS that's much longer and has a bit of harmonic at those rotational speeds.

But I've been running it now for well over a year with no problems and have largely forgotten about it. Had it up to 140mph with no actual vibration or problems.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serranot

I have a V2 MFactory. I experienced some additional NVH in the 60-70mph range. Had the shop check installation on it; it was properly installed. Wrote it off to being a different material DS that's much longer and has a bit of harmonic at those rotational speeds.

But I've been running it now for well over a year with no problems and have largely forgotten about it. Had it up to 140mph with no actual vibration or problems.

I wrote off the additional NVH as well. Most of my research showed that this was pretty normal. I don't do too much highway driving, so it didn't bother me.

This is a new issue with a new noise coming from the driveshaft (see 1st and 2nd video in my previous post). It's also noticeable when driving at all speeds.

slcook54 · 10-06-2021, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFactory

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audi5000s

I didn't necessarily want a direct line to your engineers, I just wanted to speak to someone at MFactory about the issue vs. sending emails which was taking too much time. I gave you my personal cell number to try and resolve this. I didn't know what more I could provide you other that what we were specifically experiencing via my emails and the videos taken.

Due to differing timezones, it is far easier (and quicker) to communicate via email. Our US facility does not deal with the driveshafts, so you have to deal with our Taiwan facility

All that I asked for is for you to ask your mechanic exactly what process he done while diagnosing the issue to 100% determine it was the driveshaft at fault. Nothing more, nothing less. You could not provide this information, which ultimately led to this current unfortunate forum discussion

Pick up the phone and help the guy out. What type of customer service is this? You could probably solve this entire thing with a 10 minute phone call but you're making it so unnecessarily complicated.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slcook54

Pick up the phone and help the guy out. What type of customer service is this? You could probably solve this entire thing with a 10 minute phone call but you're making it so unnecessarily complicated.

Agreed. I think this could've been resolved while my car was on a lift over a phone call. We could've at least tried regardless of accents. I work with many people with many accents. I think I'm spinning my wheels at this point and I've wasted enough money on this driveshaft. I just wanted to let everyone know about my experience.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFactory

The reason for asking how they diagnosed the issue is so that we can provide further advice/suggestions on what to test. You/your mechanic failed to provide this previously. I only just received your email reply with your mechanics updated reply there.

And now, unfortunately, you've completely removed the driveshaft and replaced it with a different one. This means any of the further tests that we would have asked your mechanic to do is now futile, unless they are willing to remove your current (new/oem) driveshaft and put the YCW one back on to do further tests.

Progress could have been made very quickly if you or your mechanic had provided what was asked in the first place. You are once again stuck with 2 options:

1) Put the YCW one back on and we can run through further tests
2) Ship the driveshaft back to us for inspection

What I provided you from my mechanic is the same info that I have been telling you all along. I think the videos probably show it better and I've sent these to you. You mention tests. It would be helpful if you provided these while I was in communication with you and my car was at the shop. You still haven't provided any specific tests. This would be helpful for the future for me and maybe others. Thanks.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFactory

And this information, unfortunately, basically amounts to nothing being "tested" by your mechanic at all other than listening/watching a driveshaft spinning while the car is on a lift.

I have replied to your email, but for those interested in the "tests" which all require the driveshaft in question to actually be installed on the car:

- Bolts (condition, torque, alignment)
- Guibo (condition, alignment)
- Flange/bolt-points (surface condition, contaminants)
- Chassis hardware condition (e.g engine mounts, transmission mounts, chassis bushings, diff bushings, damper mounts etc) <- FYI, what may not be noticeable with a heavy steel oem driveshaft can be REALLY noticeable with a hollow carbon tube

Thank you. This list would've been very helpful several weeks ago when my car was in the shop and I was looking for ideas.

omgzirra_exe · 10-06-2021, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audi5000s

Thank you. This list would've been very helpful several weeks ago when my car was in the shop and I was looking for ideas.

sounds like he wanted to help you out, but you kept refusing it lol.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

sounds like he wanted to help you out, but you kept refusing it lol.

Confused by this comment. What exactly have I been refusing? I've relayed my notes to MFactory. I've relayed my mechanics findings. I've provided videos. I was looking for ideas of what to check on the driveshaft vs. shipping it back. I just received a list of things to check today. This would've been great back in September while my car was at my mechanics.

Johal E32 · 10-06-2021, 02:45 PM

Uh, this is a public forum. A place for us to have these discussions. The OP isn't doing anything wrong by sharing his side of the story.

omgzirra_exe · 10-06-2021, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audi5000s

Confused by this comment. What exactly have I been refusing? I've relayed my notes to MFactory. I've relayed my mechanics findings. I've provided videos. I was looking for ideas of what to check on the driveshaft vs. shipping it back. I just received a list of things to check today. This would've been great back in September while my car was at my mechanics.

I can tell you straight up, your videos were pretty useless to me as a mechanical engineer. you could've took the time to explain in the video whats happening and what was attempted to remedy the problem. instead of these less than 10 second videos of sound.

and per his side it sounded like he requested certain information from you, but you didn't provide anything.

yeah you gave him your mechanics input, but you didn't give him the information that he wanted. so thats what i mean by he tried to help you but you refused it.

could this be handled better from both sides absolutely.

I'm not taking sides here since the involved parties have shared their story and yes, i have his driveshaft too.

MaximusB · 10-06-2021, 03:13 PM

I don't see any wrong with Mfactory here. Sure, there could be misunderstanding in translation but this thread is pretty clear.

OP having issue with the shaft.
Mfactory offered to inspect it.
OP would have to pay to ship it back for inspection.
If it is defect, Mfactory will cover the cost.
If no defect on the part but rather installation or issue is with the car, OP will have to cover shipping.

Unless I am missing something, that seems fair to me.

Like, say you bought a car and are issues with it. The dealer will look at it and yes they will cover all costs if it is warranty issue. But dealer will make you pay for their time if the issue is not with them. So I don't see how is this situation any different.

Audi5000s · 10-06-2021, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

I can tell you straight up, your videos were pretty useless to me as a mechanical engineer. you could've took the time to explain in the video whats happening and what was attempted to remedy the problem. instead of these less than 10 second videos of sound.

and per his side it sounded like he requested certain information from you, but you didn't provide anything.

yeah you gave him your mechanics input, but you didn't give him the information that he wanted. so thats what i mean by he tried to help you but you refused it.

could this be handled better from both sides absolutely.

I'm not taking sides here since the involved parties have shared their story and yes, i have his driveshaft too.

I would've done a zoom chat under the car with my mechanic if it helped. I relayed all of the info that I had from my mechanic to them along with what I was noticing. What my mechanic provided today was nothing new. I want to find a resolution here, but feel that I am was at a dead end unless I shipped it back to China. I was trying to find other solutions vs. dealing with the downtime of shipping and the cost involved. I just felt I needed to share my experience.

chutak · 10-06-2021, 03:15 PM

OP, since you already have the driveshaft removed can you take it to a local driveline shop for balance testing? Pretty sure those types of shops could diagnose a failure easily. Yeah, you'll have to cough up a few bucks, but at least you'd have a better idea if the driveshaft is good or not.

It's also hard to say if it's installation error. New engine mounts could've tweaked the driveshaft angle a bit. Didn't the recent rod-bearing/engine-mount job exacerbate NVH?

10-06-2021, 07:40 AM	#25
akkando Major General 6090 Rep 6,746 Posts Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (1)	I've had a V3 on order for what feels like a year. The deposit was 50%. I have no idea when I'll get my drive shaft. This story is making me worry this is going to be a headache.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-06-2021, 08:14 AM	#27
amrazM mTekMods 2478 Rep 3,150 Posts Drives: like a granny. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Manhatan iTrader: (1)	I’m not sure how a single piece driveshaft could produce a rotational sound. Something else is def going on here, furthermore being that I installed this driveshaft myself I’m well aware of how difficult it is to install this compared to an oem unit. Mistakes can be made in the installation due to the complexity of the job
	Appreciate 1 M_Torx522.00 Quote

10-06-2021, 08:15 AM	#28
nycplumber Major 790 Rep 1,318 Posts Drives: slow Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Spring Lake NJ iTrader: (0)	Thanks for posting. The response from the vendor is embarrassing to say the least. I definitely wouldn't consider buying from them now
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10-06-2021, 08:20 AM	#29
pooyab Major 345 Rep 1,164 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW M3 2020 BMW M5C Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	Seems like an easy solution to me. MFactory sends OP a shipping label if he's adamant that it's the driveshaft at this point. Then MFactory either can warranty it if defective with a replacement or refund him minus return shipping cost if it's all ok and OP no longer wants it. __________________ Interlagos Blue/Speed Cloth \| BayOptiks DTM Headlights \| Alpine Stage 2 \| KW Clubsport \| Resonated X-Pipe \| Eisenmann Race \| StopTech BBK \| TE37SL \| YFCM CF Driveshaft \| Hotchkis F/R Sways \| F/R Endlinks \| Turner Control Arms and Front Tension Bushings \| Powerflex Diff Bushings \| Turner Solid Subframe Bushings \| MS Underdrive Pulley and Intake \| Alpine DCT Tune \| Karbonius Intake \| Carbon Roof (TBD)
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10-06-2021, 09:29 AM	#32
serranot Lieutenant 348 Rep 505 Posts Drives: Nothing Now Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Middletown, MD iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW E90 M3 [10.00]	I have a V2 MFactory. I experienced some additional NVH in the 60-70mph range. Had the shop check installation on it; it was properly installed. Wrote it off to being a different material DS that's much longer and has a bit of harmonic at those rotational speeds. But I've been running it now for well over a year with no problems and have largely forgotten about it. Had it up to 140mph with no actual vibration or problems.
	Appreciate 1 M_Torx522.00 Quote

10-06-2021, 02:45 PM	#40
Johal E32 Private First Class 169 Rep 184 Posts Drives: 91 M5, 98 M3, 08 M3 Join Date: May 2019 Location: Earth iTrader: (3) Garage List 1991 BMW M5 [0.00] 1998 BMW M3 [0.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Uh, this is a public forum. A place for us to have these discussions. The OP isn't doing anything wrong by sharing his side of the story.
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10-06-2021, 03:13 PM	#42
MaximusB Major 1482 Rep 1,371 Posts Drives: 13 Frozen White E92 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	I don't see any wrong with Mfactory here. Sure, there could be misunderstanding in translation but this thread is pretty clear. OP having issue with the shaft. Mfactory offered to inspect it. OP would have to pay to ship it back for inspection. If it is defect, Mfactory will cover the cost. If no defect on the part but rather installation or issue is with the car, OP will have to cover shipping. Unless I am missing something, that seems fair to me. Like, say you bought a car and are issues with it. The dealer will look at it and yes they will cover all costs if it is warranty issue. But dealer will make you pay for their time if the issue is not with them. So I don't see how is this situation any different.
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10-06-2021, 03:15 PM	#44
chutak First Lieutenant 275 Rep 312 Posts Drives: E90 M3, X7 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NoVA iTrader: (1)	OP, since you already have the driveshaft removed can you take it to a local driveline shop for balance testing? Pretty sure those types of shops could diagnose a failure easily. Yeah, you'll have to cough up a few bucks, but at least you'd have a better idea if the driveshaft is good or not. It's also hard to say if it's installation error. New engine mounts could've tweaked the driveshaft angle a bit. Didn't the recent rod-bearing/engine-mount job exacerbate NVH?
	Appreciate 2 Delete147.50 jun_e92142.50 Quote