Combo Race Shop / Enthusiast Club?

[DRLane]

Those with experience running race oriented shops OG Shark StripclubDJ do any operate as both a public shop and as a membership? A cursory glance at the number of race shops (even winning teams) that either close or exchange hands would suggest these are super difficult to run profitably. Razor thin margins, limited qualified labor, economic downturns, etc. Is there a way to subsidize the primary operating costs via an annual membership?

I know private clubs exist adjacent to premier speedways (Road Atlanta, VIR, etc.), but this would be less a trackside storage / country club, and more a space for those than want to own their development with the aid professionals and a like-minded community, etc.

Please, let's not get lost in liability insurance, trust worthiness, etc. Execution is everything. This is a thought exercise

As part of the race shop, a limited membership of track-oriented DIY enthusiasts could manage their cars (lifts, alignment rack, fabrication, detailing/photo bay, etc.). Additionally, leverage the shops vendor relationships for wholesale access to parts, consumables, etc.

Membership entails:

• 24/7 key code access (via a scheduling system)
• Defined # of lift hours per membership rate
• Access to lifts, tools, alignment / corner balance rack, fabrication space, detailing / photo bay
• On-site mechanic / fabricator for consultative, instructional side by side, of full-service work (at varying rates)
• Part and wheel / tire storage
• Access to wholesale rates for parts and consumables
• Couches, TVs, beverages, snacks, etc.

Can this exist? I feel like there's a community of folks that want more ownership in their cars development but don't have the space or expertise to go at it alone.

[Kelse92]

A place -sort of- like this just opened in Dallas called "The Shop" it's geared a little more towards collector car storage with a lift and alignment rack and one mechanic on site to help but still a similar idea. I think I quoted a rate to store one vehicle there and it was $500 initiation fee and then a $250/mo storage feee mut my numbers might be fuzzy on that. There's a members lounge and then also a public restaurant associated in the building. I haven't physically visited yet but there's a local chapter BMW CCA meeting there next week that I'm attending and going to check it out then.

There's another guy in one of the area suburbs that owns or rents a warehouse that he keeps his two cars and trailer in and then word-of-mouth markets his additional space to other enthusiasts for about $250/mo as well. I think he had 7 or 8 people with stuff there usually.

Definitely would require one person at minimum with some knowledge to run a model you're talking about, and you'd probably have to keep them busy outside of just member's cars. But could be a good model.
I'm sure thinking about it a little more there's probably a lot of insurance and safety regulations hoops to jump through which may be why we don't see a lot more of these around.

[dparm]

There was a place in the Chicago suburbs that was similar to this. It was just a bunch of garage-condominiums for rich dudes to store their collector cars, and sit around drinking scotch. They had an on-site race shop that did mechanical work.

I've seen these around LA and SF, too. They used to be just basic car storage warehouses but have since evolved to provide a more premium "experience".


Kelse92 do you know any members? That place looks freaking awesome. I was debating an ECR membership and a garage, but this is tempting too.

[DRLane]

Yeah explicitly not storage. That's been done and a large part of the car country club model.

This would be access to professional workspace…

[kyippee]

Here's my quick opinion on the different segments and how it may not be a fit

Amateur track rats or entry level club racing: We're too poor or budget-conscious to pay a premium for all this stuff

Ballers: They'll just pay a race team or shop to support them

Professionals: Their race team will do it

[Ximian]

I think there are quite a lot of people that would love this, but probably not enough in one region. For a monthly fee of $250, you'll need 50 people just to break even on a <5000 sq ft building with garages. Living in a more expensive area? That fee is much higher or you'll need more people. If you get below 50 members, someone is going to be paying extra to keep it afloat.

Want access to professional mechanics, fabricators, etc too? That's going to be a separate fee on top of monthly dues, otherwise you're losing customers since they may not need any work done and do not want to subsidize these services for other people.

I recall last year there was a place I found that was going to charge around 200 per month for storing my car for the winter, but they also offered access to a lift and a lounge type thing. I can't find them anymore which isn't a good sign.

Great idea, but it would be difficult to survive long term without it also being a regular car repair shop or something along those lines.

Some combination of enthusiast club, sim racing club, retailer for selling or renting race suits/protective gear/devices, etc might work.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dparm

There was a place in the Chicago suburbs that was similar to this. It was just a bunch of garage-condominiums for rich dudes to store their collector cars, and sit around drinking scotch. They had an on-site race shop that did mechanical work.

I've seen these around LA and SF, too. They used to be just basic car storage warehouses but have since evolved to provide a more premium "experience".


Kelse92 do you know any members? That place looks freaking awesome. I was debating an ECR membership and a garage, but this is tempting too.

We have what you mentioned above in Dallas too less the race shop, Garages of Texas. 250k for a shell suite finish out to your tastes and hang out.

As far as The Shop goes I don't know any members yet but I'll get more details when I'm there next week.
Personally, I think the ECR membership thing and garage space (if you can get one, there's lists of people wanting) would be ideal and there's a motorsports shop on site.

[DRLane]

I think my post wasn't clear.

- First and foremost, it's a fully operational public shop.
- The club membership is in addition to the existing business.
- There would not be any long term car storage (this requires too much room).

The membership club would simply have access to the facility. The on-site professionals would be available to be scheduled at varying rates depending upon involvement (consultative, hand holding the DIY, through full service). If nothings needed then you can manage the work yourself.

The target market for the club membership:
- Serious track habit;
- Discretionary income to afford $2500 a $5000 annual membership fee;
- Strong desire to own their build vs having a race shop manage entirely.

I doubt it could sustain more than 15-20 members depending on size.

[OG Shark]

I think it could be a feasible setup - but the execution would have to be perfect. How many stalls would you dedicate towards it? How many lifts? How does scheduling work? What happens when it takes someone 5x longer to do something than what they had schedule for? Inventory - tools, etc. - how going to keep track of them and insure they don't grow legs & walk away or get misplaced? When someone doesn't get the lift usage they wanted are you going to reimburse part of their dues? Do you outfit each stall with tools so everyone has what they need at all times? Material management & storage?

To me to make something like this work would take quite a balancing act. Schedules will have to be flexible as well as space, tool usage, etc. To have it run efficiently I think you can pretty much figure having at least one employee on hand at all times - scheduling, inventory, assistance, safety, etc... That alone is going to cost quite a bit. And the initial costs are going to be fairly high with the lifts & tools. Monthly overhead will then be fairly pricey from there.

I know you said not get lost in liability, etc. - but unfortunately I think that is the biggest con to the whole thing. Without getting into the specifics of it I think this is the biggest deal killer for something like this. Just too many potential negatives that could come out of something like this - would have to really turn a big profit to outweigh the risk here. Either pretty high dues or quite a few members (which just amplifies the other issues). Also are you responsible for making sure everyone can use the tools safely - and then insuring that they do so at all times? That would really scare me here. Yeah you can have them sign waivers, liability releases, all that good stuff - but can still cost you quite a bit if something happens.

[dogbone]

(^^ what he said)

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

I think it could be a feasible setup - but the execution would have to be perfect. How many stalls would you dedicate towards it? How many lifts? How does scheduling work? What happens when it takes someone 5x longer to do something than what they had schedule for? Inventory - tools, etc. - how going to keep track of them and insure they don't grow legs & walk away or get misplaced? When someone doesn't get the lift usage they wanted are you going to reimburse part of their dues? Do you outfit each stall with tools so everyone has what they need at all times? Material management & storage?

To me to make something like this work would take quite a balancing act. Schedules will have to be flexible as well as space, tool usage, etc. To have it run efficiently I think you can pretty much figure having at least one employee on hand at all times - scheduling, inventory, assistance, safety, etc... That alone is going to cost quite a bit. And the initial costs are going to be fairly high with the lifts & tools. Monthly overhead will then be fairly pricey from there.

I know you said not get lost in liability, etc. - but unfortunately I think that is the biggest con to the whole thing. Without getting into the specifics of it I think this is the biggest deal killer for something like this. Just too many potential negatives that could come out of something like this - would have to really turn a big profit to outweigh the risk here. Either pretty high dues or quite a few members (which just amplifies the other issues). Also are you responsible for making sure everyone can use the tools safely - and then insuring that they do so at all times? That would really scare me here. Yeah you can have them sign waivers, liability releases, all that good stuff - but can still cost you quite a bit if something happens.

Absolutely, devil is in the execution details. Granted it's not rocket science of a business model, scheduling management, or oversight.

Liability is a challenge and thus maybe it makes more sense to operate strictly as a ownership club than a combo public shop and therefore an emphasis on sustaining operations > profit.

[roastbeef]

its hard to fill that niche between a race shop that preps cars to one of those "car condo" communities.
we have the thermal club out here in socal, and they have been open long enough that i think they're making it (unless they are bleeding money). its real estate with pretty good dues.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Absolutely, devil is in the execution details. Granted it's not rocket science of a business model, scheduling management, or oversight.

Liability is a challenge and thus maybe it makes more sense to operate strictly as a ownership club than a combo public shop and therefore an emphasis on sustaining operations > profit.

Yeah definitely not rocket science - but has the potential to turn into a logistical nightmare pretty quickly - especially if the membership is comprised mainly of people with the standard 9-5 weekdays jobs. Just playing devil’s advocate here - not saying it can’t be done - just some of the potential issues I could see that would need to be overcome.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Yeah definitely not rocket science - but has the potential to turn into a logistical nightmare pretty quickly - especially if the membership is comprised mainly of people with the standard 9-5 weekdays jobs. Just playing devil's advocate here - not saying it can't be done - just some of the potential issues I could see that would need to be overcome.

I wholeheartedly agree, the potential for disaster is very high and arguably too risky for the respective gain.

But a collective or club. I don't know. I think a market exists for that, albeit it would be expensive. I guess this would be back to the country club model… Full circle

Thx for entertaining the thought everyone

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

its hard to fill that niche between a race shop that preps cars to one of those "car condo" communities.
we have the thermal club out here in socal, and they have been open long enough that i think they're making it (unless they are bleeding money). its real estate with pretty good dues.

I can only imagine what their HOA dues are at Thermal! 🤯

[roastbeef]

It's a $150k buy in, and you have to develop the land within a year. I forget the dues, but $2k is sticking out in my head for some reason. I think I talked someone that said it was about $1 mil by the time everything is said and done.

[SAMM3Y]

I like the concept, like a co-op? What have you named it?

[SYT_Shadow]

It's hard to make something like this work. I schedule rod bearing jobs in a place in Rhode Island that's basically a shop with 6 lifts.
Each lift has a full set of tools. It's around $20 an hour to use it.
http://www.gearheadri.com/

It is open 7 days a week and the owner is there every single day it is open. No employees other than his wife manning the phone/email. The owner spends his day constantly walking around the cars and checking up on what people are doing, helping when needed, etc.

I suppose with the setup of the owner working 7 days a week, 365 days a year, the place more or less breaks even, but who would volunteer for something like this?


Overall, I just don't see the way to monetize anything car related. Just look at BE Bearings and the endless discussions of "getting ripped off" because chinese bearings are cheaper, or Slon's DCT pan and the clear knockoffs that are 30% cheaper...
It's odd that a thing like track use, which is tens of thousands a year, attracts the same mentality as Walmart shoppers.

[Kelse92]

Oh, there's one other place I can think of that allows people to work on their cars that is an interesting way to go about it. It's the Dallas Maker Space. It's more of a community art workshop/space but they do happen to have a single car lift that can be reserved for use. They also have a members owned Lemons/Champ racecar that they all work on as well. The car lift rules are pretty much that you have to take a class to know how to safely operate the lift and then they turn you loose. Of course at a space like this, there's always someone on staff to supervise which eliminates that need.

The key is definitely combining it with some other business. Combining it with an automotive shop may work, but I agree it could be an issue if there is more work from one side of the business than the other who's fighting over the lifts/tools and that sort of thing.

[omgzirra_exe]

if you guys are in the OC/Chino area let me know, a friend of mine has a shop that is kinda structured this way, you can store your car there, and he can transport your car to the race track as well as provide onsite repairs/upgrades/alignment/tire stuff as well as track side support + media.

the shop should be opening up soon in september once everything is sorted. we'll have a open house.

waiting for 7 more lifts

but this is absolutely doable Devin, but it's probably best to have it in the city vs at a race track and just offer transportations services.

[Kelse92]

Got a chance to tour "the shop" early this week.
It's a really great model. they currently have locations in Seattle and Dallas is their newest.
They have a restaurant open to public that views the cars.
There's a members-only lounge that's like a car-person's we-work.
Social-only membership is access to the lounge at $100/mo
Premium membership is access to use of the facilities which is a wash bay fitted with a full lineup of supplies, and lifts with tools + an alignment rack (must schedule your time and use), and the other lower tier items for $150/mo
For safety, they keep someone on staff to supervise lift use which is 9am-9pm and they pull in your car for you.

To store a car there is an additional $250/mo per car.
There's also a higher level that gets you a few extra things, but not worth the cost of admission.
For a $1000 initiation and $150/mo for the premium membership it's cheaper than my gym membership and close to my house it's very tempting to have a lift and very nice car-wash setup close by.
The restaurant they put in was also amazingg

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Got a chance to tour "the shop" early this week.
It's a really great model. they currently have locations in Seattle and Dallas is their newest.
They have a restaurant open to public that views the cars.
There's a members-only lounge that's like a car-person's we-work.
Social-only membership is access to the lounge at $100/mo
Premium membership is access to use of the facilities which is a wash bay fitted with a full lineup of supplies, and lifts with tools + an alignment rack (must schedule your time and use), and the other lower tier items for $150/mo
For safety, they keep someone on staff to supervise lift use which is 9am-9pm and they pull in your car for you.

To store a car there is an additional $250/mo per car.
There's also a higher level that gets you a few extra things, but not worth the cost of admission.
For a $1000 initiation and $150/mo for the premium membership it's cheaper than my gym membership and close to my house it's very tempting to have a lift and very nice car-wash setup close by.
The restaurant they put in was also amazingg

This is it! We're going to see more and more of these. Thanks for sharing and definitely worth the $2800 for the first year (if you have lots of car plans).