Dealership wants to replace my engine with 1700 miles on the car. :( (kinda long)

[SnowsM3]

I'll try and be brief. The car was flawless up until the 1200 mile service. It is an extra car for me so I don't drive it every day. So when I do drive it I don't listen to the radio much and just enjoy the car and the drive. The reason I mention this is because I'm positive it wasn't making any engine noises prior to my 1200 mile service. I followed the 1200 mile break-in EXACTLY, just like I did with my E46 M3. When I picked up the car after the 1200 mile service I noticed that when driving thru the parking lot of my office there was a clicking/tapping noise coming from the engine. See this thread for a better description.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144749

I took the car back to the dealer immediately and they kept it for a couple days. They informed me that the noise was the normal expansion of the exhaust and that I shouldn't worry about it. I didn't fully believe that explanation but since they're the experts and they said they pulled out all the "scopes" & diagnostics on the car I went with it. They said the car was 100% and to drive it normally since nothing was wrong. I took the car on a weekend road trip with my girlfriend and the noise appeared to get worse. I compared my car to a friend’s car with almost the exact same mileage and I couldn't repeat the noise on his car after almost an hour of trying. This convinced me that something was wrong with my car.

Long story short, apparently the North American Head of Engineering (or some title like that) happened to be at my dealership on Tuesday of this week so I brought the car in. I took him for a test drive and he heard the noise during the drive and while sitting at idle. They just informed me that they believe there is an issue with the bottom-end of the engine. BMW in Germany don't want them to touch the engine but they want it shipped back to Germany so they can disassemble it themselves and find out what went wrong.

I'm sure you've already figured out my question. I don't want my brand new car torn apart and repaired with a different engine from the factory one. I paid cash for this car and I don't want to worry about resale down the road. Does anyone have any suggestions or personal experience as to how I can get a new car instead of just a new engine? Am I overreacting to this? Does anyone else agree with me on this one? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated before I start this battle.

Unfortunately, I'm leaving the country tomorrow morning and will be unreachable for several days. I can reply tonight and early tomorrow morning but after that I'll be MIA until Thurs next week. I plan to call BMWNA customer relations and the dealership GM when I return next week. The car will remain at the dealership until I return. Thanks for your input.

[JEllis]

You might be able to site the lemon law... I dont have much experience with it... maybe just threatening to site the lemon law and hire a lawyer would do the trick...or actually hire a lawyer....hmmm possibilities... but I agree fight for a new car...

Jason

[Seth_Horwitz]

I'm not sure where you live, but some states' Lemon Laws kick in if more than x% of the value of a car is replaced within y months. You may want to do a quick search on the net.

If you do get a new engine, make sure they follow whatever laws are necessary to keep your odometer correct. If you wind up with a "True Mileage Unknown" on your title, resale will be as they say ... completely fucked. If they do a straight swap and everything is alright, you probably won't even notice a difference in a few months. If they screw it up, then tell them you want a new car. Good luck.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Sorry to hear that. However I agree with Jason.

The reason BMW wants your dealer to ship the engine to them is so they can find the problem themselves and record it for future simular problems. Smart move on behalf of BMW.

Good luck with whatever happens.

[Technic]

Personally, I would not wait for any screw up (actual swap, odometer paperwork, any extended warranty, depreciation, whatever)... ask for a new car and if the dealer cannot/won't comply then invest in a good lawyer for a briefing on your legal options and then go with what the lawyer tell you to do.

Simple. Good luck.

[emkmd]

I agree, you should have a new car.

[RandyB]

Yeah, tell them you will do them one better - they can send the whole car to Germany for testing/examination and get you another one. I'm really sorry to hear about this. I hope it goes as well as is possible and you get what you want.

I really wonder what might have happened at the dealership. Maybe they accidentally started the engine dry and wiped the bearings. Seems highly unlikely but you never know. It would be a shame if the dealer's actions are what ultimately caused you all of this pain. I only mention this because you said the noise showed up right after the service. Seems a little suspicious to me.

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by RandyB

I really wonder what might have happened at the dealership. Maybe they accidentally started the engine dry and wiped the bearings. Seems highly unlikely but you never know. It would be a shame if the dealer's actions are what ultimately caused you all of this pain. I only mention this because you said the noise showed up right after the service. Seems a little suspicious to me.

I agree...but good luck getting the stealership to admit this. Just in recent memory, think about the DCT fluid fiasco.

The thing that SHOULD happen is that they should give you a new car...a properly engineered engine should not fail in 1200 miles. Since the engine was properly engineered (I hope), the failure was likely the result of a stealership screw-up. Meaning a new car for you.

But, the thing that WILL happen is that they will just replace the engine. Maybe you can squeeze a 100 k powertrain warranty (just like my 2002 E46 M3).

Unless you have a friend that is a products liability lawyer (and will do for free)...do not waste your money...the law is not on your side (at this point in time) assuming that you get a new engine and that fixes the problem.

Best wishes and safe travels.

[IceCold1906]

Humm i read somewhere on the forums that if you car is in service for 21+ days or 30 day or something like that, with a specific problem, BMW will replace you vehicle. Have your car/engine sent back to Germany it out of the question if I owned the car. I would definitely ask for a brand new replacement and the earliest slot possible.

[Davinhci]

Fight for a new car!

[hellrotm]

Honestly I don't think you will have to fight at all to get a new car. If depends how nice you dealer is.

A new engine at 1700 miles, that nuts.

Tell your dealer/BMW you will take nothing less than a brand new car. Mention Lemon Law if they try and say no, you could also mention the word lawyer if you have to.

[icemang17]

I would want a new car...but I don't think the stealership will do it.....

However replacing the engine really isn't a big deal......Porsche is well known for just replacing engines under warranty during the whole rear main seal leak problem that many 911's and Boxsters have.....so much so that dealerships would have crate engines sitting around just waiting to be installed under warranty! I don't think it will hurt the value of the car..... sure it won't be 100% numbers matching anymore..but who really cares as long as its a correct engine and runs perfect?

[Gearhead999s]

Let them put a new engine in.It is not a big deal and if the dealership has a reasonable level of proficency,everything will be fine.I think asking for a new car is unrealistic even if the dealership did screw up the 1200 mile service.

[rvacha]

The dealer doesn't want your engine, BMW NA and/or BMW AG want your engine. They may be more receptive to the idea of a new car than the dealer would otherwise be. I sorta doubt a new engine would reduce the resale but I'm no expert here. Certainly it’s not as big a deal as an accident, or even track use. On the other hand there are no engines just laying around and it will be weeks if not several months before an engine transplant can be accomplished.

I say politely request a new car

[ihyln]

There are way too many things that can go wrong when replacing the engine (paperwork on the title included). OP should get a brand new car no questions asked. WTF?

[footie]

Can I pipe up and give a little bit of advice on how to basically get what you want even if a new car is out of the question.

Just the dealer if you can speak to a rep from either BMW NA or BMW AG and ask the question of whether they will guarantee a market value buy back of the car. This way you know you will get market value for your car and don't have to try and sell it at the end of term, it's a win, win situation. This is something I see BMW being very agreeable to.

Good luck.

[mkoesel]

Hiring a lawyer and trying to lemon it might end up costing you more than any depreciation would. Just something to consider

I know I would want a new car too. But its also one of those things that could cost you a lot of time and money. Tough call. Remember, people here have already had their M-DCT transmissions replaced because the service dept screwed up. Could they also have gotten new cars? Maybe so, but not without a lot of headache.

At the very least, I would insist upon some compensation for the car being in the shop for a month or whatever amount of time. Maybe some addtional compensation beyond that, and also, since BMW USA is involved, maybe an M loaner of some kind from their fleet.

[mattwhite]

I know you are upset, but I'd take a deep breath and step back from the situation for a second. These forums are notorious for people screaming "you deserve a new car!" when something like this happens, but you need to be realistic. And I know how you feel, I just had my M-DCT transmission replaced.

I doubt you could get a new car out of this. There's a possibility, but you would need to hire a lawyer and start down the litigation path, which will cost you significant money. Plus after all of that, you might very well lose if push comes to shove. And the process could take months, if not years.

Second, I doubt this will affect your resale value, especially in the long-term. There were many E46 M3 engine swaps, and these cars haven't lost any value from what I've seen. Also, you car has a 4 year warranty, which should be plenty of time for any issues to pop up.

Just my 2 cents.

[valeram]

Just check your State's Lemon law if you want a new car. Just hope for the best.

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by mattwhite

I know you are upset, but I'd take a deep breath and step back from the situation for a second. These forums are notorious for people screaming "you deserve a new car!" when something like this happens, but you need to be realistic. And I know how you feel, I just had my M-DCT transmission replaced.

I doubt you could get a new car out of this. There's a possibility, but you would need to hire a lawyer and start down the litigation path, which will cost you significant money. Plus after all of that, you might very well lose if push comes to shove. And the process could take months, if not years.

Second, I doubt this will affect your resale value, especially in the long-term. There were many E46 M3 engine swaps, and these cars haven't lost any value from what I've seen. Also, you car has a 4 year warranty, which should be plenty of time for any issues to pop up.

Just my 2 cents.

I understand taking a step back but switching out a whole engine is getting a little ridiculous. Especially when he paid cash for a car that he probably assumed would have only minor issues. The new engine must cost somewhere close to $20,000... just a best guess for a brand new first year BMW V8 from the factory... Thats a huge chunk of change and there is a chance that this percentage of total cost of the car will be enough to justify the Lemon Law without much litigation at all...

Jason

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by JEllis

I understand taking a step back but switching out a whole engine is getting a little ridiculous. Especially when he paid cash for a car that he probably assumed would have only minor issues. The new engine must cost somewhere close to $20,000... just a best guess for a brand new first year BMW V8 from the factory... Thats a huge chunk of change and there is a chance that this percentage of total cost of the car will be enough to justify the Lemon Law without much litigation at all...

Jason

If it fits Lemon Law requirements, and remember these vary by state, then BMW would probably switch it without a problem. If not, though, you need to remember that the law and what's "fair" rarely go hand-in-hand. I learned this the hard way when a surgery didn't go quite as planned. Anytime I hear a doctor complaining about excessive medical malpractice claims, I tell them my story and they proceed to STFU. Best of luck, though. I hope he gets a new car, but I'm not sure it's going to happen. (Please don't take my build spot. )

[!Xoible]

there's nothing wrong about a new engine. try to lemon, if not i wouldnt worry about it