Tracking car with stock rod bearings

[torrque]

Hi,

How many of you still track the car with stock rod bearings... I don't do more than 3 x 20 min sessions per day, mainly run with track night in America.
I am at 51k miles now... Should I be concerned and book her in for bearing replacement?

I change the engine oil after about 4 of those track days, so 4 hours of track duty; and car is driven by my wife to work otherwise ... so she barely hits 4000 rpms.

I got her at 49k so obviously I don't know what happened before me.
I thought of changing the rb once I hit 65k or so, but not sooner... Obviously if I still have the car by then

Thanks for your input.

[roastbeef]

None of that matters, it's the luck of the draw. Proceed depending on how much risk you are willing to accept.

[tsk94]

If you have an 09 with the lead/cooper bearings, it's very straightforward to track the wear with oil analysis and give you a good indicator of the condition.

I've been tracking my car for the past 3 years on stock bearings, while diligently doing oil analysis and getting the car up to operating temp before hard driving. I have the updated OEM 702/703 bearings. And yes, you can still use oil analysis to track wear on them, it's not rocket science. The important thing is to get a baseline and go from there.

Send in some oil and get a baseline and send some more in after 2 track days. See the trend and go from there. Or change them now.

[DRLane]

Once I started tracking the car (at 30k miles), i changed them with BE bearings. It's the equivalent to a set of tires and a track weekend.

Given you're sustaining 5-8k RPM, it's an easy bit of assurance.

[b4hand]

Why risk it?

[torrque]

Thanks all, I think good advice here is to change the bearings... I will do so during winter, only doing 2 more track days this year. End of the day it's only money.

[fsmtnbiker]

My car has been heavily tracked and autocrossed since 70k miles. Changed the bearings at 105k and they were fine and original. It's good preventative maintenance but I wouldn't lose sleep over them being original as long as you follow good maintenance intervals and don't drive it hard while cold.

[kayha12]

2012 on stock rod bearings... 1 full season of HPDE and 3 of time trialing. Bought the car at 25k miles, it currently sits at 44k, I only drive it to/from the track and obviously on the track

[SYT_Shadow]

It is purely a matter of risk assessment.

If you have a second car available and can shell out ~20k if the engine blows, then go ahead and risk it.

If your engine blows, you will be out of a car for 6 months at least and you'll pay 20k out of pocket. If you have a second car then it's not the end of the world to stop tracking until you have a new engine.

Rod bearings cost 2.5k to replace, including materials. That seems better to me than the alternative, but as long as your eyes are wide open then do as you please.

A couple years ago a student of mine at the track, in the beginner run group and in his 3rd track day, was going into a long explanation of why rod bearings were fake news, then proceeded to blow his engine that weekend. He was out of a car for over a year and had to buy another car for the interim. He paid a lot more than 20k.

[OG Shark]

SYT_Shadow is right on - it is about risk tolerance. Might kaboom, might not - just have to figure out if you are good with it if it does - or if 2500.00 is worth the insurance that the rod bearings will not be an issue. We do it on all our S65's as a rule here - just do not want to risk losing one of our motors that way. These motors are pretty solid other than the RB - so I feel like it is worth fixing the main issue with the from the get go. Now if there were other common issues - then it might be a different story (and also a good reason to look at different platforms).

BE Bearing & ARP bolts...

[gtenedio]

i feel like these are rhetorical questions when members ask silly questions like this.

the threat is there. the solution is there. the price average is also there. someone said it earlier- its equivalent to a full brake change or tire change.

[MisterClutch888]

this had been well documented, why would u risk it? I bought the car last year and did the bearings right away. Is a good peace of mind too, who knows how the previous owners treated the car? They might not warmed up to temp and just gunned it. I would change the bearings as preventative maintenance.

[torrque]

Originally Posted by gtenedio

i feel like these are rhetorical questions when members ask silly questions like this.

the threat is there. the solution is there. the price average is also there. someone said it earlier- its equivalent to a full brake change or tire change.

Not so fast my friend... It's not like a tire change decision. I have taken my car for a clutch change worth 2000 bucks, only to leak oil like crazy after that, and being forced to take gearbox out of a car with AWD and transfer case AGAIN, to install the rear main seal properly. I urge you to look at how easy is to do that on jack stands, and come back and report.

Taking the car to a shop for such a big surgery involves some risks in my opinion. Now I will have a garage soon where I can do this work myself, over the winter... But that is also a big job for someone who does not have a hoist; again; on jack stands.

Like when I did my 335xi turbos, oil pan seal and engine stands.... Left half of the skin on all my knuckles, and due the amount of beer and schnapps I had every day after the work, now I have a drinking problem. I challenge you to change turbo's and all lines on a car which lived in New England for 10 years. 3 turbo studs broke into the engine.. fun fun...

So, to summarize, no. It's not *THAT* simple of a decision. I have the money to pay someone to do it, but unfortunately I don't have a shop I fully, wholeheartedly, undoubtedly trust.

I KNOW they will take shortcuts to finish job in due time, and cash in ...

[dparm]

There are no shops within a day's drive you trust to do it? Make a mini-roadtrip of it. Otherwise, it sounds like you aren't comfortable tracking the car. Not sure what else to say.

[leftfootbr8king]

I was one of those that felt the rod bearing issue was overblown, but finally I did the damn thing and replaced them when I realized how silly it was that I was dumping thousands into other mods that only allowed me to push it harder. It's an 08 with 85k miles when I bought it. Ive only put 2k miles on it myself in my 1st year of ownership and religiously let it warm up before getting into it.

When I finally start my build thread I'll include a picture of the rod bearings that were pulled out.

Here's how the interaction at the shop went when I went to pick it up:

Mechanic: "you're going to be glad you got these changed when you did, it was only a matter of time before you would have had a much larger problem on your hands"

Me: "haha yea, sure. That's what you're supposed to say before I swipe my card"

Mechanic: "before you swipe your card come back and take a look at them"

We walk back to the bench and my jaw dropped. Bearing 8 was literally delaminated. The hair on my arms stood up and I got a little sweaty.

you can be certain you're doing everything to look after your engine, but unless you owned it from day one you have no idea that the previous owners always did. In 2021 there are very few one owner e9x m3's out there.

If you can't afford to change your bearings you shouldn't own this car. If you think 2k is better spent on a new set of wheels or exhaust, think about how great those mods are on a car with a spun bearing.

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

I was one of those that felt the rod bearing issue was overblown, but finally I did the damn thing and replaced them when I realized how silly it was that I was dumping thousands into other mods that only allowed me to push it harder. It's an 08 with 85k miles when I bought it. Ive only put 2k miles on it myself in my 1st year of ownership and religiously let it warm up before getting into it.

When I finally start my build thread I'll include a picture of the rod bearings that were pulled out.

Here's how the interaction at the shop went when I went to pick it up:

Mechanic: "you're going to be glad you got these changed when you did, it was only a matter of time before you would have had a much larger problem on your hands"

Me: "haha yea, sure. That's what you're supposed to say before I swipe my card"

Mechanic: "before you swipe your card come back and take a look at them"

We walk back to the bench and my jaw dropped. Bearing 8 was literally delaminated. The hair on my arms stood up and I got a little sweaty.

you can be certain you're doing everything to look after your engine, but unless you owned it from day one you have no idea that the previous owners always did. In 2021 there are very few one owner e9x m3's out there.

If you can't afford to change your bearings you shouldn't own this car. If you think 2k is better spent on a new set of wheels or exhaust, think about how great those mods are on a car with a spun bearing.

I had a similar experience. Money well spent imo

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by torrque

Not so fast my friend... It's not like a tire change decision. I have taken my car for a clutch change worth 2000 bucks, only to leak oil like crazy after that, and being forced to take gearbox out of a car with AWD and transfer case AGAIN, to install the rear main seal properly. I urge you to look at how easy is to do that on jack stands, and come back and report.

Taking the car to a shop for such a big surgery involves some risks in my opinion. Now I will have a garage soon where I can do this work myself, over the winter... But that is also a big job for someone who does not have a hoist; again; on jack stands.

Like when I did my 335xi turbos, oil pan seal and engine stands.... Left half of the skin on all my knuckles, and due the amount of beer and schnapps I had every day after the work, now I have a drinking problem. I challenge you to change turbo's and all lines on a car which lived in New England for 10 years. 3 turbo studs broke into the engine.. fun fun...

So, to summarize, no. It's not *THAT* simple of a decision. I have the money to pay someone to do it, but unfortunately I don't have a shop I fully, wholeheartedly, undoubtedly trust.

I KNOW they will take shortcuts to finish job in due time, and cash in ...

In Rhode Island there's the shop where I've done around 10 jobs. They have tools etc. You can go Sat morning and you'll have 10-12h, then you can continue on Sunday if something went wrong or you're taking it slow.

The DIY is pretty clear, if you are mechanically inclined, just do it yourself. That way you know no one has taken any shortcuts. Edit: all of the jobs I've done have been with the owners standing under the car watching.

[gtenedio]

Originally Posted by torrque

Not so fast my friend... It's not like a tire change decision. I have taken my car for a clutch change worth 2000 bucks, only to leak oil like crazy after that, and being forced to take gearbox out of a car with AWD and transfer case AGAIN, to install the rear main seal properly. I urge you to look at how easy is to do that on jack stands, and come back and report.

Taking the car to a shop for such a big surgery involves some risks in my opinion. Now I will have a garage soon where I can do this work myself, over the winter... But that is also a big job for someone who does not have a hoist; again; on jack stands.

Like when I did my 335xi turbos, oil pan seal and engine stands.... Left half of the skin on all my knuckles, and due the amount of beer and schnapps I had every day after the work, now I have a drinking problem. I challenge you to change turbo's and all lines on a car which lived in New England for 10 years. 3 turbo studs broke into the engine.. fun fun...

So, to summarize, no. It's not *THAT* simple of a decision. I have the money to pay someone to do it, but unfortunately I don't have a shop I fully, wholeheartedly, undoubtedly trust.

I KNOW they will take shortcuts to finish job in due time, and cash in ...

all of what you typed is erroneous, my friend.

if you own an s65 motor- you know the risk, and have accepted it by keeping the car, purchasing the car- or choosing to track it.

my point was- you accepted the risk, you need to do your due diligence in maintaining a working car and anyone that asks the question "can i beat the shit out of my car and not have to worry about rod bearings" is a cotton headed ninny muggins.

would you track a car with winter tires, half warn street pads, or 3 year old standard brake fluid?

k, bye.

[leftfootbr8king]

Probably the greatest relief I felt after getting my rb's done was that my friends quit giving me shit that I was driving ticking time bomb.

[leftfootbr8king]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

Probably the greatest relief I felt after getting my rb's done was that my friends quit giving me shit that I was driving ticking time bomb.

Its probably still ticking in some other ways, I just don't think about it anymore.

[gtenedio]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

I was one of those that felt the rod bearing issue was overblown, but finally I did the damn thing and replaced them when I realized how silly it was that I was dumping thousands into other mods that only allowed me to push it harder. It's an 08 with 85k miles when I bought it. Ive only put 2k miles on it myself in my 1st year of ownership and religiously let it warm up before getting into it.

When I finally start my build thread I'll include a picture of the rod bearings that were pulled out.

Here's how the interaction at the shop went when I went to pick it up:

Mechanic: "you're going to be glad you got these changed when you did, it was only a matter of time before you would have had a much larger problem on your hands"

Me: "haha yea, sure. That's what you're supposed to say before I swipe my card"

Mechanic: "before you swipe your card come back and take a look at them"

We walk back to the bench and my jaw dropped. Bearing 8 was literally delaminated. The hair on my arms stood up and I got a little sweaty.

you can be certain you're doing everything to look after your engine, but unless you owned it from day one you have no idea that the previous owners always did. In 2021 there are very few one owner e9x m3's out there.

If you can't afford to change your bearings you shouldn't own this car. If you think 2k is better spent on a new set of wheels or exhaust, think about how great those mods are on a car with a spun bearing.

missed this post.

thank you, better said than I.


can someone delete this thread now.

[torrque]

Originally Posted by gtenedio

all of what you typed is erroneous, my friend.

if you own an s65 motor- you know the risk, and have accepted it by keeping the car, purchasing the car- or choosing to track it.

my point was- you accepted the risk, you need to do your due diligence in maintaining a working car and anyone that asks the question "can i beat the shit out of my car and not have to worry about rod bearings" is a cotton headed ninny muggins.

would you track a car with winter tires, half warn street pads, or 3 year old standard brake fluid?

k, bye.

Why the aggression? It seems like everyone turns against each other on this board... instead of working together.

I didn't say I don't want to change them, on the contrary.. I was just gauging how many people track their cars on original bearings, and I found out I am not alone by the way. Read up a few posts.

It's easy to become aggressive behind the keyboard. Relax, let's be friends