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06-02-2008, 09:31 PM | #46 | |
Just as when I found my car, they changed it.
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hey! ///M-turismo congrats on the chrysler car you need to change your name to ///AMG-turismo ... your new friends are now waiting for you in MBworld enjoy your car we hope you like it
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06-02-2008, 09:55 PM | #47 |
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06-02-2008, 11:21 PM | #48 | |
///M 5light
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06-02-2008, 11:44 PM | #49 | |
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Its widely considered one of the best, if not the best automatic in the market. |
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06-03-2008, 01:45 AM | #50 |
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06-03-2008, 02:01 AM | #51 |
A^M=G is nothing w/o the Power of ///M
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I will never understand why people will buy mercedes, Im sorry but I've driven the entire Mercedes line up, C class up to the SL and hated them all except the GL450 which was kinda nice for an SUV.
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06-03-2008, 08:00 AM | #52 | |
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Don't confuse rear wheel torque with engine torque because there are a lot of gears between the engine and the rear wheels that will increase torque. Peak HP and the width of the torque plateau are the key values. Attached is a graph (I made some time ago) estimating (minus drivetrain power losses) the rear wheel torque of the C63 and M3 and 335 as well as optimal shift points (for max rear wheel torque and not exceeding redline). I did not have a good torque curve for the C63 so there is some uncertainty with the numbers. According to this graph, there is an average 10% rear wheel torque advantage for the C63 from 0 mph to 165 mph. The C63 is quoted to produce a peak torque of 443 ft-lbs at 5000 rpm. But, the C63 is quoted to produce "greater than" 369 ft-lbs of torque from 2,000 to 6,000 rpm. That's a 20% drop from peak torque. The same 20% range on the M3 torque means the M3 stays within 20% of peak torque from 2,000 to 8,500 rpm. From roughly 2,700 rpm to 8,000 rpm the M3 stays within 10% of peak torque. Which is why when the M3 shifts at the rev limiter the engine should still be pulling strong. I'd guess the C63 would start to feel "exhausted" when it gets near redline. I'd guess when the C63 shifts it will feel "stronger" and when the M3 shifts it would feel "weaker" (to how each felt pre-shift). Just drive both cars. These numbers are silly. |
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06-03-2008, 10:29 AM | #53 | |
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The C63 makes more torque and more power by virtue of a larger engine, so it's faster than the M3, even though it's heavier. The M3 narrows the overall performance gap by making more power per liter of engine displacement. For a more detailed explanation of power and torque, go here to note 31 in that string, and follow up with note 36. Bruce |
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06-03-2008, 01:53 PM | #54 |
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I agree with all your points. I would choose the C63 over the M3 sedan but slightly like the M3 Coupe better than the 63 in terms of looks and general performance (I say general because I have driven both and I like turn in, steering feel, etc… more than the 63 especially at speed but the M could benefit with some of that 63 power). The sound is also certainly magnificent and downshifting is a beauty on the C63 but (you know, that amazing gurgling sound; however, IMO it does not sound louder or better than “new" Ferraris (i.e., F430 and above). Perhaps better than the older ones, yes!! But not even the F360.
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06-04-2008, 12:52 AM | #55 |
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I took delivery last week on Thursday. I love it.
Here is a video of the startup. It sounds more like an American muscle car than anything. BTW, this car DOES GET LOOKS. I've already gotten a thumbs up from a C230 driver, and looks from 3 series drivers. I only have 230ish miles on the car. I was actually hoping the car would be more stealthy. But it seems people are interested... [u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5fWVuw3PMxE&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5fWVuw3PMxE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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06-04-2008, 01:24 AM | #56 | |
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06-04-2008, 01:37 AM | #57 | |
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You can't use the full HP in either car...thus handling is far more important at lower speeds... 45 MPH in a straightline or in the twisties??? I know which one I prefer... |
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06-04-2008, 03:42 AM | #58 | |
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My buddy traded his Dinan 5 for a E63. I said he was crazy. Until I drove it, amazing car. |
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06-04-2008, 03:45 AM | #59 | |
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The only way to see the M3's peak power, is if you ring out the motor. You simply can't drive at high rpm's all day in the M3. The C63 is far more suited to be a daily driver. All the torque is delivered around 2,000 to 3,000 rpm. Unlike the M3 which peak power is at 8,300 rpm. |
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06-04-2008, 05:29 AM | #60 |
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How would one consider a 442 tq 6.2 ltr car a better daily driver?
Do you really need that much tq to pull out off the traffic light ? Now if you like to drive to impress at every stop light I would agree, but dont tell me its a much better suited DD. These are high end toys like mine which will be a wkend driver
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06-04-2008, 05:52 AM | #61 |
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The main thing that will make the C63 a better daily driver is that it is offered with only an automatic - most M3's will probably be manuals. The engine in my m coupe delivers it's power pretty much the same way the new M3 does, just less of it - and I've never had an automatic because I've always wanted to have that extra control, until this car.
The characteristics of this engine require you to wring it out to redline to get the most out of it - otherwise it really doesn't feel that great. Which in all honesty, when 2nd gear ends at 74 MPH, you are already over most speed limits, do that in 3rd and now you're at take me to jail speeds. The problem is that any of these cars are crazy fast for the street and that as soon as you get on them you're breaking the speed limit. However, I now have a greater appreciation for automatics and high torque engines after having this car. This is mostly noticeable when on the highway and wanting to pass someone, or to make an emergency lane change, etc. To do this in the M coupe you have to downshift to build up some revs and wind it out. The C63 has enough power to just stay in gear and use it's torque, or if you need more power you just floor it and it will let you go as fast as possible. No drama at all. Maybe I'm just getting older, and am now having to deal with daily traffic on my morning and afternoon commutes, or I'm remembering why I liked my old VW GTI over my older Honda Si..... same comparison (GTI = C63 ; Si = M3) in the way they deliver their power. Either way I love my car, but can appreciate the C63 for what it does as well.
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06-04-2008, 09:16 AM | #63 | |
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"Daily Driving" never requires peak power from any of these cars.
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06-04-2008, 10:17 AM | #64 |
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Hans, I read that you already have a CEL with 60miles on the odo. That's gotta take the buzz out of your new car. I sincerely hope that MB reliability is a lot better than it used to be. That was the final reason for me not going with a C63 initially.
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06-04-2008, 11:39 AM | #65 |
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My feeling is that Mercedes has huge reliability issues particularly between 2000 and still 2004/2005ish. They have come a long way very quickly since and I should also add that AMG was never part of the reliability issues. I've been lucky enough to own severl MBs and BMW's and believe reliability is really about the same. Have had no issues with AMG a very, very small issues with BMW M. If you don't buy an AMG, it should not be because you worry about reliability.
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06-04-2008, 12:14 PM | #66 |
///M3 Power
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I love the C63. That and the Audi RS4 were the two other cars I considered before finally ordering my 08 M3 Coupe.
The C63 will pull the M3 slightly in a straight line. This is fact, however the M3 will over take it in the first turn. This was proven (for all intensive purposes) in the shootout between the M3, C63 and IS-F where by the end the M3 was over 8 seconds ahead of both cars. The thing that made the M3 my final choice was: (and in no particular order) The looks The EDC which allows my M3 to go from 335 like comfort, to a bit stiffer than an E46, to a setting meant for tracking your car. This alone is a huge benefit. Handling Stability and Traction controls are light years ahead 6 speed manual - I simply would never want an AT in a sports car. How fun is mashing the gas... I prefer driver skill. etc. At the same time, the C63 is one hell of a beast, and I love the sound. Either car is awesome. Enjoy the hell out of that thing, I think its an incredible car and more than worthy of that AMG badge. Does anyone know if you can chip the car and unlock the 65 or so HP (I think thats what it was if I recall correctly) thats there, but AMG detuned it so it wouldnt beat its highr echelon cars? That would be sweet assuming the AT and drive train can handle the extra power.
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