AC warm, evap already replaced in 2017

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by white_4door

i believe around 200 where i work. and after reading a lot of the post on here sounds like you go to some pretty bad dealers. i have been working for a dealer for 11 years and personally own 4 bmws. i am a dealer tech and have always taken pride in my work and as i agree that some people cut corners i can tell you it doesnt fly where i work. comparing japanese market cars to european cars is apples to oranges, a honda can go 200,000 miles and not leak oil, probably go through 4 sets of tires is not something you compare to a vehicle that you can go to the track with every weekend and still comfortably drive to work every day of the week. i was just giving you the facts and spec that they give, not saying you dont have an issue. personally you need to find a place you trust and build personal relationships whether its a dealership that you can request having the same tech every time you go or an independent.

I've been through enough repairs and dealers to know that there is an endemic problem with bmw usa and quality of service at US bmw dealerships. Every foreign car manufacturer have their own politics and strategy to train franchise US dealership which has a great impact on the quality of service provided to the customer. I have no doubt that owning a M car in Germany would be stellar service at dealership. In the US, it's just not happening and there are many causes for it on both dealer side and BMW USA.

From 8 years of BMW M3 ownership, ordering factory, it's been my experience that the dealership is by far the biggest liability to the car. The more the car is in their hands the more it will spiral down.

Originally Posted by tbuck

^I find this attitude odd. Do you want it fixed or not? As you suggested previously, and I agree with you, they didn't find the leak the first time and just replaced the evap coil as a "that should do it" stop gap. AC systems are not rocket science and leaks are fairly easy to spot with dye or a freon sniffer, so if you have no faith in the dealer take it to a reputable indy shop and get it diagnosed and fixed. Yes that will cost money, but so does everything on these cars.

They did all these dye test before and failed to repair the leak. So yes i have little faith in them finding it now.

Short of that I would personally buy a can of DIY freon (with no additives, they do have these) and top it off myself. Done that dozens of times over the years with many different cars. Also I have never had an adverse issue when using the type that contains dye and o-ring treatment to help reduce a leak, and in some cases it has worked, YMMV. But using these will not cause your AC system to grenade itself, that is just urban myth. BMW AC systems are nothing special, and I have always found them to be a bit weak, and comparing them to your honda, well they are never going to be that good. Sad to say.

The problem is overcharging the system, it seems these off the shelves bottles won't match the exact pressurization required for BMWs and while older A/C system were quite tolerant, the spec are tighter with bmw weak ACs.

Originally Posted by WayneM3

Every few years the A/C in my 2009 stops blowing cold air. At first, I added a can of refrigerant and it worked for the season. After a few years of adding it, I had my friend at a body shop evacuate and recharge the system and the machine did not detect any leaks or issues. That worked for a while and then it started to get warm again so I added more refrigerant. I used this[/URL] one and had good luck. Each year when it starts to warm up in the Spring I test the A/C to see if I am going to have to add more. This year I did not add any and everything seems ok so far.

Adding it is a pretty easy DIY job, especially if you have done it before. The connector that you need to get to is buried so you have to remove a cover under the hood by the wipers but it only takes a few minutes.

Thanks i might try that. If the dealer wants $300 just to diagnose the car i will go that route.

Originally Posted by Drv4fun

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887759

Check that link, some e9x I was told may have had those same failing parts.

I had this issue on my 135i, changed 2 times under warranty as it kept failing after a year.

Thanks, that thread lowers my esteem for bmw even more.

[white_4door]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

I've been through enough repairs and dealers to know that there is an endemic problem with bmw usa and quality of service at US bmw dealerships. Every foreign car manufacturer have their own politics and strategy to train franchise US dealership which has a great impact on the quality of service provided to the customer. I have no doubt that owning a M car in Germany would be stellar service at dealership. In the US, it's just not happening and there are many causes for it on both dealer side and BMW USA.

From 8 years of BMW M3 ownership, ordering factory, it's been my experience that the dealership is by far the biggest liability to the car. The more the car is in their hands the more it will spiral down.



The problem is overcharging the system, it seems these off the shelves bottles won't match the exact pressurization required for BMWs and while older A/C system were quite tolerant, the spec are tighter with bmw weak ACs.



Thanks i might try that. If the dealer wants $300 just to diagnose the car i will go that route.



Thanks, that thread lowers my esteem for bmw even more.

i hope you realize that bmw doesnt make those parts. valeo makes most of the evaporators. second is bmw usa actually has some of the best training of any manufacturer. i work on all makes and models at home and every one has the issues. again you must have really bad dealers that you go to because where i work only certain people touch m cars and i havent heard any complaints about the service. if you have so many problems why havent you reached out to bmw usa with all of your records? people have done it with a lot less

[tdott]

Originally Posted by white_4door

i believe around 200 where i work. and after reading a lot of the post on here sounds like you go to some pretty bad dealers. i have been working for a dealer for 11 years and personally own 4 bmws. i am a dealer tech and have always taken pride in my work and as i agree that some people cut corners i can tell you it doesnt fly where i work.

All techs say this, yet these type of issues happen everywhere. It's just the nature of the business. My solution is no one ever touches my cars, and when I have no choice, I'm careful on where I take it. I've worked in it and know it well, I have a lot of friends that still do.

I'm the type of guy that will re-torque my wheels after getting tires installed because I know they will almost never be done properly.

While I can install my own tires, do my own alignment, I don't have the equipment to do it myself. If I had the space I would own the machines, but my garage isn't big enough to have that much stuff around and still be able to fit two cars in it.

Originally Posted by white_4door

i hope you realize that bmw doesnt make those parts. valeo makes most of the evaporators. second is bmw usa actually has some of the best training of any manufacturer. i work on all makes and models at home and every one has the issues. again you must have really bad dealers that you go to because where i work only certain people touch m cars and i havent heard any complaints about the service. if you have so many problems why havent you reached out to bmw usa with all of your records? people have done it with a lot less

Parts are made to BMW specifications, why is it that other manufactures that can make a AC system that doesn't leak for 10+ years (or valve covers that don't leak) yet BMW can't? even using the same parts manufactures.

My Lexus uses Nissens and Denso AC parts (same part makers BMW uses), yet my 2010 RX is still on factory AC charge and is colder than my BMWs.

[white_4door]

Originally Posted by tdott

All techs say this, yet these type of issues happen everywhere. It's just the nature of the business. My solution is no one ever touches my cars, and when I have no choice, I'm careful on where I take it. I've worked in it and know it well, I have a lot of friends that still do.

I'm the type of guy that will re-torque my wheels after getting tires installed because I know they will almost never be done properly.

While I can install my own tires, do my own alignment, I don't have the equipment to do it myself. If I had the space I would own the machines, but my garage isn't big enough to have that much stuff around and still be able to fit two cars in it.





Parts are made to BMW specifications, why is it that other manufactures that can make a AC system that doesn't leak for 10+ years (or valve covers that don't leak) yet BMW can't? even using the same parts manufactures.

My Lexus uses Nissens and Denso AC parts (same part makers BMW uses), yet my 2010 RX is still on factory AC charge and is colder than my BMWs.

lol my work speaks for itself, you can come check over it if you want i see what other people do and im not in the same category but thanks for the input

[tdott]

Originally Posted by white_4door

lol my work speaks for itself, you can come check over it if you want i see what other people do and I'm not in the same category but thanks for the input

No one is saying anything about your work.
Plus I have a hard time believe you are prefect and your dealership is perfect and never makes mistakes. No one is. Everyone makes mistakes here and there, it's how you deal with it that matters.

It's a general statement that is an industry wide problem, not only BMW.

Don't take it personally, it's a big industry and there will always be issues here and there, especially in big cities with busy dealership service departments. To not admit that it is a problem in the industry is naïve on your part.

[white_4door]

Originally Posted by tdott

No one is saying anything about your work.
Plus I have a hard time believe you are prefect and your dealership is perfect and never makes mistakes. No one is. Everyone makes mistakes here and there, it's how you deal with it that matters.

It's a general statement that is an industry wide problem, not only BMW.

Don't take it personally, it's a big industry and there will always be issues here and there, especially in big cities with busy dealership service departments. To not admit that it is a problem in the industry is naïve on your part.

never said anything about perfect and never would say perfect. but i dont hack up a car and send it on its way, something breaks i replace it. some problems arent easy to find and wont get it right with the time given on the first shot. lack of responsibility is in every industry and in my opinion is a lack of management. i have gone through all the same things with everything that has been done at my house, overcharged on the shotty work i received, instead of going on the internet and complaining about it i fought with the company til it was done to my expectations, i bought the shit and did it myself, or i found someone through friends that i could trust to do it, same thing i told this guy and sounds like you are the same way. i train 5 people under me and i personally check over their work and any abnormal customer complaints and if i can make a small difference in the industry thats what i am trying to do. i have personally given my opinions to bmw on quite a few things and they are always looking for feedback. to sit back and group everyone as bad techs because they work at a dealer is just ignorant. i have seen plenty of cars from "bmw specialty shops" that are beyond repair. had on at my house that one of said shops put new turbos on, valve seals, injectors, and every other part under the sun for the guys complaint and it was a simple collapsed vacuum line on the reservoir. bad techs are everywhere and again you are 100% correct no one is perfect but i can atleast say i triple check my work so yes your comment is kind of personal

[tdott]

I agree on most of your points. Again, I am not personally attacking you in any way, I am just making general comments in an industry I worked in, and have been a customer in (as we all have).

Originally Posted by white_4door

some problems arent easy to find and wont get it right with the time given on the first shot.

But this is kinda of the problem customers are complaining about, no one wants to pay twice because the job was rushed because you weren't given enough time to get it right the first time esp when they are paying for diagnostics.

As the example in this thread, AC leaks, very common problem that BMW tech can't seem to fix properly on the first attempt. I don't see why an evaporator should leak again after 4 years. Time should have been taken to lube/replace all the o-ring and make sure things are sealed tight.

Instead I bet it was rushed, and maybe the o-rings weren't even changed.

Either way we'll agree to disagree. There are good and bad techs, I never said otherwise.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by white_4door

i hope you realize that bmw doesnt make those parts. valeo makes most of the evaporators. second is bmw usa actually has some of the best training of any manufacturer. i work on all makes and models at home and every one has the issues. again you must have really bad dealers that you go to because where i work only certain people touch m cars and i havent heard any complaints about the service. if you have so many problems why havent you reached out to bmw usa with all of your records? people have done it with a lot less

I am glad i did not reply to you immediately (but i will), and have seen your exchange with tdott first. He is exactly right on point and you are borderline stepping all over him and not even aware of it. You confuse it all, take things personally that are not, dealership politics/greed , BMW company strategy and the influence of BMW on dealership operations and decision making.

First learn that presumption that you know what you don't about other people is the wrong approach. I knew the companies that manufacture parts for BMW in Europe 25 years ago already, including Valeo, where were you back then ? And after 4 years of recurring unsolved issue with my AC under warranty from 2013 to 2017, i knew Denso and Valeo even more. It does not matter who subcontracts parts for BMW, it is BMW's entire responsibility to make sure the quality is there and take action if it is not. Backing what many have experienced with bmw lackluster and down spiraling quality and M brand dillution.

To answer you second question, I stayed with the original dealer that ordered my car as long as i could until it was obvious they had a problem finding and keeping competent and careful technicians. If you had read this thread, other techs' insights, mechanics low salary explains that. Yet in Europe BMW dealerships are extremely well run. Work mentality isn't what it used to be in the US and that may be due to improper compensation, and too much of it going to management instead of people with the real skills.

The second dealership wasn't any better and BMW limited their range of action under warranty much more. This meant that BMW was all too aware of their wasting money on misdiagnosing repairs. I actually witnessed being told that they changed my throttle actuator for good measure even though there was nothing wrong with it and I had never asked for it. Then when the time came to repair a system that was faulty, like my AC they skimped on the job and did not take time to lube/replace all the o-ring and make sure things are sealed tight. And again, stop making assumption that you know what you don't, of course i contacted Bmw USA since it took 4 years until the dealer did something about my AC and here is the catch. they did not address the AC because they were so busy trying to fix other things that the A/C was not the top priority.

And here is how BMW fails people who order a new car. If you are lucky to get a car with zero issues you'll never know, good for you. But if BMW poor quality control makes you the unfortunate owner of a car that requires several repairs under warranty, add to it the incompetency of many US BMW dealers that will replace sound and functioning parts at BMW's cost, then BMW gets stingy, they keep a tab of total parts replaced under warranty then become very unwilling to repair anything. So yes i know BMW USA all too well.

[white_4door]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

I am glad i did not reply to you immediately (but i will), and have seen your exchange with tdott first. He is exactly right on point and you are borderline stepping all over him and not even aware of it. You confuse it all, take things personally that are not, dealership politics/greed , BMW company strategy and the influence of BMW on dealership operations and decision making.

First learn that presumption that you know what you don't about other people is the wrong approach. I knew the companies that manufacture parts for BMW in Europe 25 years ago already, including Valeo, where were you back then ? And after 4 years of recurring unsolved issue with my AC under warranty from 2013 to 2017, i knew Denso and Valeo even more. It does not matter who subcontracts parts for BMW, it is BMW's entire responsibility to make sure the quality is there and take action if it is not. Backing what many have experienced with bmw lackluster and down spiraling quality and M brand dillution.

To answer you second question, I stayed with the original dealer that ordered my car as long as i could until it was obvious they had a problem finding and keeping competent and careful technicians. If you had read this thread, other techs' insights, mechanics low salary explains that. Yet in Europe BMW dealerships are extremely well run. Work mentality isn't what it used to be in the US and that may be due to improper compensation, and too much of it going to management instead of people with the real skills.

The second dealership wasn't any better and BMW limited their range of action under warranty much more. This meant that BMW was all too aware of their wasting money on misdiagnosing repairs. I actually witnessed being told that they changed my throttle actuator for good measure even though there was nothing wrong with it and I had never asked for it. Then when the time came to repair a system that was faulty, like my AC they skimped on the job and did not take time to lube/replace all the o-ring and make sure things are sealed tight. And again, stop making assumption that you know what you don't, of course i contacted Bmw USA since it took 4 years until the dealer did something about my AC and here is the catch. they did not address the AC because they were so busy trying to fix other things that the A/C was not the top priority.

And here is how BMW fails people who order a new car. If you are lucky to get a car with zero issues you'll never know, good for you. But if BMW poor quality control makes you the unfortunate owner of a car that requires several repairs under warranty, add to it the incompetency of many US BMW dealers that will replace sound and functioning parts at BMW's cost, then BMW gets stingy, they keep a tab of total parts replaced under warranty then become very unwilling to repair anything. So yes i know BMW USA all too well.

i would have never given any input if i knew you had it all figured out, sounds like you know more than everyone that your asking input from

good luck

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by white_4door

i would have never given any input if i knew you had it all figured out, sounds like you know more than everyone that your asking input from

good luck

you change the subject and write something ridiculous. Way to go !
you work at bmw. i understand.