E92 vs. E46 on track with equal power?

[derbo]

Originally Posted by d k

I still havent found the answer to the question I asked earlier..

Is there a place I can reasearch to find out exactly what the differences of the M cars vs. non M cars have?
Particularly in the suspension?

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1079383

This one compares 1 series non-M to M3 and I believe the 1 series non-M share the same components as the E9x Non-M models.

There is a fair share of spherical bearings that are not there on the non-M components.

[Jevi Javi]

call me old fashioned but a BMW chassis needs to have a BMW engine.

e46 m3 chassis with S65 engine.
there a few people doing this swap already. turner motorsports and speedtec_dn (in germany) that i know of...

[derbo]

Originally Posted by Jevi Javi

call me old fashioned but a BMW chassis needs to have a BMW engine.

e46 m3 chassis with S65 engine.
there a few people doing this swap already. turner motorsports and speedtec_dn (in germany) that i know of...

Spark plug changes might suck

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Jevi Javi

call me old fashioned but a BMW chassis needs to have a BMW engine.

e46 m3 chassis with S65 engine.
there a few people doing this swap already. turner motorsports and speedtec_dn (in germany) that i know of...

Most of the NASA mid Atlantic ST3 guys are running E46 with either S62 or S65 engines but I think OP is looking for twice the HP that those engines are able to make.

[sbo76]

Originally Posted by d k

How does the car do at Laguna?

It is great but definitely has a hard time keeping up with the bigger HP cars. The long straights are big advantage to the Porsche, vette, gtr, etc. Sonoma is better for the platform.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by tsk94

The 128's are light because of an aluminum block engine, lighter trans and no turbos, intercoolers, piping etc. My 128 weights 3150, so 300lbs less then an equivalent speced 135 - and almost all the weight comes off from the nose, so they handle much better Almost any swap will add weight to a 128 so probably not even advantageous over just doing a 135, unfortunately.

My 1995 M3 in I-stock form was 3175 (legal minimum off the track) without me in it. It wasn’t exactly a rocket ship. Probably from a lack of talent more than anything else.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by derbo

Spark plug changes might suck

S65 is shorter than an S54, or are you thinking the frame sides getting in the way?

[d k]

My number one choice would be that too. Plus, it would keep me in street...

Why not the N54 at that point?
Huge power capability and decent amount of aftermarket support?

Originally Posted by Jevi Javi

call me old fashioned but a BMW chassis needs to have a BMW engine.

e46 m3 chassis with S65 engine.
there a few people doing this swap already. turner motorsports and speedtec_dn (in germany) that i know of...

[d k]

Thanks for looking that up..

Do you know if its possible to swap over the entire subframe from an M to a non M?

Originally Posted by Redd

This thread might help:

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1079383

[derbo]

Originally Posted by admranger

S65 is shorter than an S54, or are you thinking the frame sides getting in the way?

I'm thinking the shock towers might be in the way. One of the 1 Series locally that is a 1M Clone with S65, the subframe has to drop to do spark plugs. I'm wondering if it is any better in the E46?

[PrimeBMW]

I would do an E46 M3 with either a S55 or S63. But I'm a glutton for punishment with regards to engine swaps.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

I'll put my 2 cents in... it seems like you're justifying a bmw platform instead of just looking elsewhere for something more capable to achieve your goals.

I'm a bmw fanboy like most of the folks in here but why not just set your goals and back into the right platform to make it happen instead of just shooting ideas out of left field?

[d k]

Believe it or not, I am actually here because my search led me here, not because Im trying to build a BMW.

Im not married to the brand in any way.

I am looking at any and all possibilities to:

A) find a light weight platform
B) make a decent amount of power
C) fit a 11-12” tire/wheel

Ideally, the power would come from the same brand as the chassis, but thats not absolutely required.
Ideally that chassis would have a decent amount of aftermarket support and be easy to acquire.
Thee engine should be able to make somewhere between 550-700 hp and do it with relative ease.

Those are my goals and it is very possible that I will not reach that, but I would like to try.

If it doesnt happen, or will only happen with huge reluctance and headaches, I will ditch the idea entirely.

I would like to be somewhere near 2:10 at COTA on slicks and 2:15ish on R comps....

If it doesnt work out, then I will buy a used radical and do some development work on that chassis (which I have some ideas for).

This was my last time attack car:

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

I'll put my 2 cents in... it seems like you're justifying a bmw platform instead of just looking elsewhere for something more capable to achieve your goals.

I'm a bmw fanboy like most of the folks in here but why not just set your goals and back into the right platform to make it happen instead of just shooting ideas out of left field?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by d k

Believe it or not, I am actually here because my search led me here, not because Im trying to build a BMW.

Im not married to the brand in any way.

I am looking at any and all possibilities to:

A) find a light weight platform
B) make a decent amount of power
C) fit a 11-12” tire/wheel

Ideally, the power would come from the same brand as the chassis, but thats not absolutely required.
Ideally that chassis would have a decent amount of aftermarket support and be easy to acquire.
Thee engine should be able to make somewhere between 550-700 hp and do it with relative ease.

Those are my goals and it is very possible that I will not reach that, but I would like to try.

If it doesnt happen, or will only happen with huge reluctance and headaches, I will ditch the idea entirely.

I would like to be somewhere near 2:10 at COTA on slicks and 2:15ish on R comps....

If it doesnt work out, then I will buy a used radical and do some development work on that chassis (which I have some ideas for).

This was my last time attack car:

What is your weight goal exactly again? I still think a 135, with an N54 and a widebody kit can tick most of your goals - except maybe the weight goal, depending what it is.

Otherwise I think an E36 with an LS, 2JZ, built-turbo M50/52 maybe or newer BMW engine (S55, S63) might work well. The same can be put into an E46 and be light, but not quite as light as an E36. The E36/46 can get you down to the weight goal you have and the power goal. To fit the wide wheel/tire setup you'd need a widebody on both.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by d k

Believe it or not, I am actually here because my search led me here, not because Im trying to build a BMW.

Im not married to the brand in any way.

I am looking at any and all possibilities to:

A) find a light weight platform
B) make a decent amount of power
C) fit a 11-12” tire/wheel

Ideally, the power would come from the same brand as the chassis, but thats not absolutely required.
Ideally that chassis would have a decent amount of aftermarket support and be easy to acquire.
Thee engine should be able to make somewhere between 550-700 hp and do it with relative ease.

Those are my goals and it is very possible that I will not reach that, but I would like to try.

If it doesnt happen, or will only happen with huge reluctance and headaches, I will ditch the idea entirely.

I would like to be somewhere near 2:10 at COTA on slicks and 2:15ish on R comps....

If it doesnt work out, then I will buy a used radical and do some development work on that chassis (which I have some ideas for).

This was my last time attack car:

Like the 86 platform. I think it’s a fantastic car for new folks to learn on. Enough power to teach momentum without super severe consequences if you biff.

I imagine yours had a turbo or three and was fast AF.

[Jevi Javi]

Originally Posted by d k

Believe it or not, I am actually here because my search led me here, not because Im trying to build a BMW.

Im not married to the brand in any way.

I am looking at any and all possibilities to:

A) find a light weight platform
B) make a decent amount of power
C) fit a 11-12” tire/wheel

Ideally, the power would come from the same brand as the chassis, but thats not absolutely required.
Ideally that chassis would have a decent amount of aftermarket support and be easy to acquire.
Thee engine should be able to make somewhere between 550-700 hp and do it with relative ease.

Those are my goals and it is very possible that I will not reach that, but I would like to try.

If it doesnt happen, or will only happen with huge reluctance and headaches, I will ditch the idea entirely.

I would like to be somewhere near 2:10 at COTA on slicks and 2:15ish on R comps....

If it doesnt work out, then I will buy a used radical and do some development work on that chassis (which I have some ideas for).

This was my last time attack car:

jesus, supercharge the s65 on an e46 m3 chassis

i suggest you go for the radical. Well be easier and less timing consuming.
Swaps are not easy. PITA from my experience. I had a e30 m3 with a s62 engine. it ran but i always had some type of issue. After 2 years of headaches. Went back to stock...

[Jevi Javi]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Most of the NASA mid Atlantic ST3 guys are running E46 with either S62 or S65 engines but I think OP is looking for twice the HP that those engines are able to make.

interesting. Any info on the net on these builds? A build thread you could point me to or a IG account? thanks!
just curious...

[d k]

My weight goal is difficult to put a number on since Im not even sure what can be done..

An unweighted answer would be 2500lbs?

I did some research into the Toyota MR Spyder which can be lightened to 1800lbs ish.
But the problem is 1) it has crap strut suspension front and rear, 2) I cant think of a good Toyota 4cyl that I care to develop (no, Im not putting a transversley mounted 2jz in there), and 3) fitting a huge tire is very difficult becaus A) the car wasnt designed for it, B) I would want to run a 17” wheel and the widest tire available is only 255, and C) strut type of suspensions are very sensitive to scrub radius which is what would happen if I was trying to use an 18” setup.
(Side note though, that car has bolt on fenders front and rear which is beneficial)
I have an idea of how to get around problem #1, but getting around problem #2 will require a non marque engine (pass go and hit the limited class please)

I didnt think the 135 is necessarily a good chassis.
To wit, a competitor (I think his name is Tony Fernandez) entered a crazy 135 in limited and smoked that time with his S2000 that was entered in the street class.

Case in point...some chassis utilize power MUCH better than others and I believe the M3 might be one of those..

I strictly remember Bill Auberlen (I was his teammate in karts) getting out of a Z3M and when we got into the M3, he said this thing just feels right, not like the Z which is trying to get away from you all the time.

So, it is my opinion that the 1 series is also plagued with this.

Originally Posted by tsk94

What is your weight goal exactly again? I still think a 135, with an N54 and a widebody kit can tick most of your goals - except maybe the weight goal, depending what it is.

Otherwise I think an E36 with an LS, 2JZ, built-turbo M50/52 maybe or newer BMW engine (S55, S63) might work well. The same can be put into an E46 and be light, but not quite as light as an E36. The E36/46 can get you down to the weight goal you have and the power goal. To fit the wide wheel/tire setup you'd need a widebody on both.

[d k]

The 86 is also plagued with a huge design flaw...
The back of the engine is 10” forward of the firewall!
Why??
Seriously, whoever dipshit thought that was a good idea should be shot!

My car was pretty quick, but not as quick as it ‘should’ have been.

I did all the development work for Jackson Racing and we used a Rotrex supercharger for that project.

I used an exhaust wastgate on the intake piping and used the cruise control to select between maps.
It had a 9psi setting and a 13.5psi setting for use with Ethanol.
The headwork was so good that it took only 13.5 psi to make that power.

I am not 100% sure, but I believe it was the highest powered supercharged 86 in the world..

Im still not a fan of that engine and would only consider re doing that platform if I could do an engine swap and had some money thrown at the problem (by someone else).
Similar weight as the 46 and I believe the 46 is a better chassis.

Originally Posted by admranger

Like the 86 platform. I think it’s a fantastic car for new folks to learn on. Enough power to teach momentum without super severe consequences if you biff.

I imagine yours had a turbo or three and was fast AF.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Jevi Javi

interesting. Any info on the net on these builds? A build thread you could point me to or a IG account? thanks!
just curious...

Look up Eric Wong and John Huebner.

[SAMM3Y]

A good motor for the mr2 would be a JDM Toyota turbo 3s-gte motor. From the same generation too I think 4th gen?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

A good motor for the mr2 would be a JDM Toyota turbo 3s-gte motor. From the same generation too I think 4th gen?

Lol all of the SW20 MR2 guys are tossing the 3s-gte in favor of the 2gr V6.