For you supercharged guys...

[neilum]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

This is why awd is great in a big power car if you live in an area where it rains or you get temperatures below 70F. My next car will be awd -- probably a Porsche 997tt or 991tt -- for better traction.

Sure, you can learn to drive a rwd big power car. I have a turbo e36m3 with 700 rwhp and no traction control and I drive it year round in NH. But obviously I cannot always use the power.

True but its also about weight distribution. Mid engine vette would be much better at putting the power down as would even a RWD 911.


Plus those old Front engine rear drive Vette's are known to be very unstable, perhaps one of the hardest cars to drive fast.

At the end of the day I'd imagine the character of the car would remain the same just exaggerated. Plus we're what 400-500 lbs heavier than a Vette with less torque.

[Adriano917]

Originally Posted by jayely1

Old thread, but is this still the case with those running 275-295's in the back?

I got 275’s in the rear and the VF595 kit on an E93 and spin in 2nd & 3rd.

[Davisca455]

G-Power SK2 Club Sport.
The 265s on the rear didn't stand a chance with the blower kit.
Blindly nailing it in any of the first 4 gears wasn't really possible, and would just get the redline lights on the tach lighting up like a Christmas tree and the car would try to wiggle itself right off the road.
Now I have widened 220s on the rear with 305s and that helps a lot.
Even then, you still can't be at redline and full throttle when the upshift is made. But after the shift you can roll back into it WAY more aggressively.
It's super fun to drive with the SC, but it is definitely a balancing act to keep it hooked up when you are being aggressive.
Every 2 years I remove the blower kit and put the stock stuff back on for a few days.
It's still a blast to drive (absolutely love the NA intake noise), but isn't nearly as sensitive to throttle inputs as it is with the SC.

[Longboarder]

Love old thread bumps. Had both. Currently non SC.

Street car the SC was a blast for sure. Track not so much. Circuit and airstrip heat soak a major issue. Prefer the predictability of stock at the circuits as well.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by cmo_93

Did you do rod bearings at the same time?

The mains can suffer premature failure too, because of the additional load. RBs are not the end of potential trouble.
I would not supercharge this motor but to each their own...

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by Davisca455

G-Power SK2 Club Sport.
The 265s on the rear didn't stand a chance with the blower kit.
Blindly nailing it in any of the first 4 gears wasn't really possible, and would just get the redline lights on the tach lighting up like a Christmas tree and the car would try to wiggle itself right off the road.
Now I have widened 220s on the rear with 305s and that helps a lot.
Even then, you still can't be at redline and full throttle when the upshift is made. But after the shift you can roll back into it WAY more aggressively.
It's super fun to drive with the SC, but it is definitely a balancing act to keep it hooked up when you are being aggressive.
Every 2 years I remove the blower kit and put the stock stuff back on for a few days.
It's still a blast to drive (absolutely love the NA intake noise), but isn't nearly as sensitive to throttle inputs as it is with the SC.

Do you track your car on those widened wheels?

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Do you track your car on those widened wheels?

I do...3 times so far.
The wheels have been on the car for about 10 years.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by Bemo

The mains can suffer premature failure too, because of the additional load. RBs are not the end of potential trouble.
I would not supercharge this motor but to each their own...

I took my engine out for this winter season to address this issue with the front main bearing, im sure it takes on an increased amount of wear with being sc

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Davisca455

G-Power SK2 Club Sport.
The 265s on the rear didn't stand a chance with the blower kit.
Blindly nailing it in any of the first 4 gears wasn't really possible, and would just get the redline lights on the tach lighting up like a Christmas tree and the car would try to wiggle itself right off the road.
Now I have widened 220s on the rear with 305s and that helps a lot.
Even then, you still can't be at redline and full throttle when the upshift is made. But after the shift you can roll back into it WAY more aggressively.
It's super fun to drive with the SC, but it is definitely a balancing act to keep it hooked up when you are being aggressive.
Every 2 years I remove the blower kit and put the stock stuff back on for a few days.
It's still a blast to drive (absolutely love the NA intake noise), but isn't nearly as sensitive to throttle inputs as it is with the SC.

Never heard of widening wheels before.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by akkando

Never heard of widening wheels before.

Eric Vaughn Machine In Southern California did the wheel widening.
According to his website, it looks like he's trying to slow down though.
But it looks like there are other options out there.

[Deebo]

My experience is with a VF650 kit, for canyon or aggressive driving you really need to treat the throttle like a dimmer switch, not just foot down straight out of the corner. But outside of that it’s very predictable, with any centri kit the boost comes on progressively as it revs. It maintains a very similar powerband compared to stock, there’s just a lot more of it. As always, best practices are not to be an idiot.

[jayely1]

So that kinda sucks, I don't want to supercharge it if you can't even put down the power. Still like that with the VF620??

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by jayely1

So that kinda sucks, I don't want to supercharge it if you can't even put down the power.

You can absolutely put power down. Good tires and learn how to modulate the throttle. The kits mentioned above don't have the torque upfront so it'll drive like normal until 4k and then things get increasingly more exciting through redline.

If you just mash the gas, you're going to have wheel spin but this is the same for any high hp car.

[jayely1]

Originally Posted by DRLane

You can absolutely put power down. Good tires and learn how to modulate the throttle. The kits mentioned above don't have the torque upfront so it'll drive like normal until 4k and then things get increasingly more exciting through redline.

If you just mash the gas, you're going to have wheel spin but this is the same for any high hp car.

hmm, I get it I suppose. How come Porsches and even the M2 can put down the power so much easier? I get it the supercharged M3 have more power, but are they even faster?? With the supercharger and exhaust the best i've seen is like a 12.2 1/4 miles.. Which many cars can do RWD and able to put the power down without modulating the throttle.. Or am I wrong??

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by jayely1

hmm, I get it I suppose. How come Porsches and even the M2 can put down the power so much easier? I get it the supercharged M3 have more power, but are they even faster?? With the supercharger and exhaust the best i've seen is like a 12.2 1/4 miles.. Which many cars can do RWD and able to put the power down without modulating the throttle.. Or am I wrong??

I don't know man, if you want a quarter mile car this ain't it. On the track, I'll blast upon and or pass 95% or M2c with a friendly wave.

[highrevs]

Going back to the original question, in comparison to something like a Z06, in my opinion a supercharged M3 is really composed. I owned a modified C6 Z06 and my supercharged M3 is so much more stable. I’m running an ESS VT2-625 with Michelin PS4S tires in stock sizes and I haven’t had any major control issues. Like others have said, it will have similar characteristics to other 500+ hp cars. If you nail it in 1st or 2nd with too much steering input, you’ll get into trouble. Occasionally I’ve had minor slip in 3rd though slightly curved on ramps but my tires were also cold. If you run good tires, let them warm up, and are mindful of your surroundings it’s a blast.

With respect to drag times, I think it’s more of an issue if you’re 6MT (I am). The DCT cars have posted some great times in the 11s. With the manuals, the problem is that you have to shift a little early in 1st, then again before or at 70 mph, and you really can’t power shift these cars without grinding or rejected shifts so you have to take it somewhat “slow.” That being said, even the 6MTs pushing 600+ hp are fast roll race cars. I beat a Tesla Model 3 performance dual motor and a Challenger hellcat, both of which run 11.7 s.

Ironically, the only thing that made me nervous is the way it builds speed. You don’t get a massive kick like you will with high torque cars (e.g., Z06). It feels like you’re being pulled faster and faster and sometimes it’s actually hard to tell how fast you’re going without looking at the speedometer or tach or outside the car. On a couple of occasions I was going so much faster than I thought I was before a curve I almost ran out of distance to brake properly. But I’ve gotten accustomed to it now. If you want a luxurious, classic car modified to be pretty fast from a roll and capable of taking out 90% of the competition, it’s a great path.

Also see this video for a comparison between stock and supercharged (not me):

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by jayely1

So that kinda sucks, I don't want to supercharge it if you can't even put down the power. Still like that with the VF620??

This is NOT me, but the same kit.
I'm assuming/hoping it's a one time deal on the autobahn?
This is some well controlled aggression on the early shifts and they're definitely putting the power to the ground.

[Maxf80M3]

My Sc e9x was excellent to drive. It pulled hard very drivable, the supercharger made the car feel proper . The way I would have built it from factory. Enough jam to put a huge smile on your face . 600-700 HP makes for a very very fun drivable street race car.

For those that have either owned faster cars or need more ponies to really enjoy the car , I strongly suggest buying a blower. The s65 motor is a jewel. The problem is (my opinion) it's all sound in stock form. Sounds great and relatively fast but heavy. By today's standards there's many stock force induction cars that will leave the s65 spanked both from light to light and on a roll . Especially if your an E93 .

I ran a 285 Michelin P4s and in the summer is hooked nice . My opinion is the s65 motor actually doesn't produce enough torque. I was making somewhere in the 560+ whp range but only 380 torque. I didn't know what traction problems really meant until I turbo upgraded my f80 and felt what 600+ ft lbs of torque was like to deal with ... whole new level!!!

Guys running 600-700 ft lbs of torque in the f chassis are having great success with R888r or Nittos , there are a few other options .

Also

Like longboarder said one of the bigger problems was heat soak. I felt like my car dropped 50-75 HP in the dead heat of summer . It was disappointing. I started to look into meth injection or something to cool it down. Heat is a bigger problem over traction . I believe he had an ice tank in the trunk to cool down the air charge . This is genius because the current ESS SC setup has this tiny reservoir in the engine bay that holds very little water. Relocating this outside the engine bay and increasing volume + ice sounds like an amazing idea.

[SAMM3Y]

The car's far more entertaining with Boost. It revs quicker, pulls harder and even with a centrifugal blower kit the extra pull down low fills a hole that I felt needed filling on mine. I don't have to wring it's neck anymore to have fun. It's more gratifying. I have a 275/30/19 rear on currently and it has a shorter gear set, it's not at all scary to drive, it hooks pretty good but maybe my kit isn't as extreme as some others. I love it. The sounds it makes too, sheesh!! No turbos muffling the exhaust.. it's menacing

[JackieChiles]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Interesting, because the centrifugal adds very little power in the 2000-4000 rpm range and is essentially another accessory adding a little drag on the crank even when the bypass valve is open.

Anecdotally on my car, which had an ess 625 kit with stock exhaust on it when I bought it, the car absolutely starts to pick up speed very quickly around 2800-3000 rpm. It stars pulling hard at that rpm in 1-3rd gear on a dct car

The two negatives to me on the sc are the extra weight in the front which I feel like I can notice on turn in, and the lack of intake noise compared to stock

Performance wise it’s a massive difference and makes the car a boatload faster

[M3R1]

First off my car is a street only car. I am repeating everything that was said above, but I will try to add my own perspective. The ESS-625 kit makes the E9x cars fast. With coilovers and a BBK the car is very composed, it simply never feels unpredictable.

The first time I drove my car (It had the ESS kit already installed) I was surprised by how linear the power delivery was. It really feels exactly like stock but simply has more power as the RPM's climb. If you watch the boost gage, it looks like a mini tachometer. if i put a red line at around 7-7.5lbs I seriously would know when to shift, the boost climbs that steady and predictably.

SC'd E9x ///M's as street cars are really hard to beat at any price. When you factor in price then consider the cars it competes with they are very special. Just my .02

[BimmerNugget]

Originally Posted by Davisca455

G-Power SK2 Club Sport.
The 265s on the rear didn't stand a chance with the blower kit.
Blindly nailing it in any of the first 4 gears wasn't really possible, and would just get the redline lights on the tach lighting up like a Christmas tree and the car would try to wiggle itself right off the road.
Now I have widened 220s on the rear with 305s and that helps a lot.
Even then, you still can't be at redline and full throttle when the upshift is made. But after the shift you can roll back into it WAY more aggressively.
It's super fun to drive with the SC, but it is definitely a balancing act to keep it hooked up when you are being aggressive.
Every 2 years I remove the blower kit and put the stock stuff back on for a few days.
It's still a blast to drive (absolutely love the NA intake noise), but isn't nearly as sensitive to throttle inputs as it is with the SC.

May I ask what's your reasoning for removing the SC every 2 years to drive it stock for a few days and putting the SC back on?

Doesn't it cost a considerable amount of labor to uninstall and install it again? Just wondering.