Half cage discussion

[slowdown_dan]

Originally Posted by rhyary

what is ASM?

Anti submarine

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by rhyary

what is ASM?

Antisub. The typical danger of a 4 point is you'll go under it in a crash. The quickfits have specific technology to allow a 4 point to not submarine

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Antisub. The typical danger of a 4 point is you'll go under it in a crash. The quickfits have specific technology to allow a 4 point to not submarine

oh, thanks
So the six point is what prevents the ASM.
Make sense

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by rhyary

oh, thanks
So the six point is what prevents the ASM.
Make sense

5/6 points naturally prevent submarining. As far as 4 points I think only the QuickFit fixes this

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Antisub. The typical danger of a 4 point is you'll go under it in a crash. The quickfits have specific technology to allow a 4 point to not submarine

Like this kit?
I bought this before my first track day, but then was talked out of using it (because no roll bar), so I haven't tried it yet.
It wasn't really a giant negative on the first day, but by my third track day, keeping myself secure in the seat started to become a thing.
And on the less than perfect roads around Lake Berryessa, moving around in the seat is REALLY an issue.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Davisca455

Like this kit?
I bought this before my first track day, but then was talked out of using it (because no roll bar), so I haven't tried it yet.
It wasn't really a giant negative on the the first day, but by my third track day, keeping myself secure in the seat started to become a thing.
And on the less than perfect roads around Lake Berryessa, moving around in the seat is REALLY an issue.

Yes, this is the right kit.

Please ignore whatever dumbasses tell you not to use it. Refer them to what I posted earlier from Schroth.

A long time ago when I was a student I had an instructor get out of my car yelling about not wanting to use four points on the OEM seats. I calmly went with this crazy person to the chief instructor and tech chair and the matter was cleared up quickly.

The world is full of preconceived notions which are incorrect. In many aspects of our lives we have to make do with other morons because it isn't black or white, but in some cases there is clear technical guidance of which option is better like in this one.

[DRLane]

Just be aware, some tracks will not allow 4 points. Make sure you check with your target tracks as it would be an obvious bummer...

High Plains Raceway:

4 point harnesses will not be allowed. If an aftermarket harness is installed there must be a minimum of 5 points including an anti-submarine belt. Schroth 4 point belts will not be allowed.

[slowdown_dan]

It's track policies like that at HPR that give an ounce of credibility to the those who are against them (schroth s specifically)

It's too bad because there shouldn't be even a gram of credibility to the quick fits both being safe enough.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Just be aware, some tracks will not allow 4 points. Make sure you check with your target tracks as it would be an obvious bummer...

High Plains Raceway:

4 point harnesses will not be allowed. If an aftermarket harness is installed there must be a minimum of 5 points including an anti-submarine belt. Schroth 4 point belts will not be allowed.

That's a good tip!
Thunderhill is the closest track for me, and it looks like the HPDE groups that I've used are ok with the Schroth 4 points as long as they are the ASM version.
So I went ahead and installed it this afternoon.
It's pretty easy to remove if/when the rules ever change.

[dparm]

ASM belts prevent submarining by allowing one of the shoulder belts to tear slightly and pivot your body, similar to a 3-point belt. The yellow patch on the shoulder is where that extra webbing that "gives" is located.

Also, for street use, it has to be a red push button so that EMS can quickly release you in an accident. Camlocks aren't street legal. There's no difference between the belts on the ASM and ASM-FE, the FE simply has the push button release.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by dparm

Exactly, that's what I don't understand. Maybe just a typo. I don't see how a HANS would not work with the 4-point.

The original quickfit was not approved for use with a HANS device. They later updated the quickfit, and which point it because the "quickfit pro", with the pro indicating it's approved for use with a Hans device.

The Techtactics presentation is from the period between when they released the original quickfit and the quickfit pro, so at the time you couldn't use a Hans with a 4 point. These days you can.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Just be aware, some tracks will not allow 4 points. Make sure you check with your target tracks as it would be an obvious bummer...

High Plains Raceway:

4 point harnesses will not be allowed. If an aftermarket harness is installed there must be a minimum of 5 points including an anti-submarine belt. Schroth 4 point belts will not be allowed.

That just sucks! I really wonder what their reasoning is.


Back to the OP, did you figure out what you wanted to do?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The original quickfit was not approved for use with a HANS device. They later updated the quickfit, and which point it because the "quickfit pro", with the pro indicating it's approved for use with a Hans device.

The Techtactics presentation is from the period between when they released the original quickfit and the quickfit pro, so at the time you couldn't use a Hans with a 4 point. These days you can.

super clear, thank you for clarifying!

[MRzcp]

Originally Posted by derbo

That just sucks! I really wonder what their reasoning is.


Back to the OP, did you figure out what you wanted to do?

I think so, I found SYT_Shadow attachments helpful about the low risk of the roof caving in during a rollover, so I dont have any reservations with just a harness bar with 5 or 6 points and a properly fitted HANS. The 3 points for street use appear to be the only option, not much you can do about the side airbags. On another note, how many of yall have Recaro pole positions? The belt passthroughs are fairly low, and I've heard this can be potentially dangerous for taller individuals. Being about 5'10" I'm not too concerned, but I've got a Profi XL is this is a real issue

[Lienrocs]

Bringing this back up. Do you think a half cage is any better than a well engineered harness bar in terms of pure safety? I have a half cage but don't think I want to add the extra weight in if it's just a big harness bar, effectively. Any input is welcome.