Top Gear - BMW M cars: the hits and the misses

[sharocks]

Looks at garage.

Do I work at Top Gear?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Awwww Poor Craig Jamieson, tell us where the big bad X5M touched you... Poor little guy.

[kyrix1st]

F82 is everything an M enthusiast could have hoped for with great power delivery and lightweight goodies, minus maybe the exhaust sound(which I personally like, but polarizing nonetheless).

[Humdizzle]

My perfect M car would be a roadgoing version of the E89 Z4. But as an M coupe with the s65 v8 engine. would dump my f80 in a heartbeat. The Z3M is a bit dated now and the S54 cars are a ton of money for what they are. The z4m is just plain ugly.

[MBM340]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Depends on the lense you view 'progress' through to determine whether the modern cars are hits or not. The chassis, differential, tech, safety, reliability and outright pace has advanced markedly in the F generation. However the trade off has been numb steering married to effective but not particularly thrilling turbo engines, particularly the S55. As an enthusiast aural experience and driver engagement/feedback are key in my book, and modern M cars are lacking in this department. The last great M car they made is the e9x M3, everything after that lost some of the magic. BMW still does engine/drivetrain tuning to rank with he best, its just a shame they can't marry that to naturally aspirated power plants anymore. The fact the guy at the helm of M design clearly has disdain for the brand doesn't help either.

However if you look at non-M BMW's they have gone from strength to strength recently for all the reasons mentioned above, the G series vehicles are very well rounded and better than their equivalents.

Very astute points. Very unlike what Porsche has done (I see you have one) by staying and morphing what is already a winning design. I just purchased a 2021 M340 but it will be my last BMW. Next car will be a late teens Porsche 911 Carrera S. Don't want a silent car and thankfully I will die before everyone is forced to drive one LOL!

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by MBM340

Very astute points. Very unlike what Porsche has done (I see you have one) by staying and morphing what is already a winning design. I just purchased a 2021 M340 but it will be my last BMW. Next car will be a late teens Porsche 911 Carrera S. Don't want a silent car and thankfully I will die before everyone is forced to drive one LOL!

Porsche made mistakes too (early electric steering, 4 cylinder 718) but they have managed the transition into the turbo era much more effectively than BMW. They are a much lower volume manufacturer though and have higher margins. The fact they still make atmospheric engines for their GT cars shows there are still real car people in the business.

If BMW weren't hamstrung by emissions regs and still had engineers at the helm they would be in a much better place. The f8x would of been a 4.5L N/A S68 or something similar. Most of their recent problems are entirely of their own making though (horrendous g8x design, dropping DCT, increased weight, garbage marketing etc.) Luckily M has a fantastic back catalog of cars to choose from.

I think the M340i is actually the current sweet spot of the BMW lineup, the B58 is a fantastic engine. Great chassis, comfortable, quiet, good tech. Shame they dropped the manual. I really like my 330i for what it is. But when I look at M division now, nothing really appeals. I had an M2C and didn't gel with it, good car but overhyped.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The S58 is very similar to the S55. It has all the same strengths (power, cooling, reliability) and fixed some of the weaknesses (crank hub, slightly improved sound) but its by no means compares to the change from a naturally aspirated S65 to forced induction S55. I'd be surprised if the S55 is eulogized, its effective but dull. Drive an E90 M3 back to back with an M2C, the M2C is numb and lacking soul by comparison and its literally the best BMW can cough up in this generation. I was sorely disappointed with mine for that reason (despite the fantastic chassis, diff, electronics) but perhaps I was expecting too much.
...

The E90's notoriety was it was only M3 with V8, but the car was heavy & the engine was kind of anemic and needed to be revved up which isn't always practical in everyday driving. The F8x was lighter, more powerful and immediate. The E90 clearly sounds better but the F8x clearly looks better.

Overall, I agree with the conclusion from bmwblog.com: "As the proud owner of the E90 pictured above and one who is frequently guilty of ///M nostalgia, this author really has nothing to gain from capitulation, but resistance is futile. The M4 is so clearly superior to the E9X generation M3 in every performance area. And not only that, the M4 is just as playful and fun as the E9X or any past generation."

And I would put the M2C as even better the F8x in terms of driving experience.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

The E90's notoriety was it was only M3 with V8, but the car was heavy & the engine was kind of anemic and needed to be revved up which isn't always practical in everyday driving. The F8x was lighter, more powerful and immediate. The E90 clearly sounds better but the F8x clearly looks better.

Overall, I agree with the conclusion from bmwblog.com: "As the proud owner of the E90 pictured above and one who is frequently guilty of ///M nostalgia, this author really has nothing to gain from capitulation, but resistance is futile. The M4 is so clearly superior to the E9X generation M3 in every performance area. And not only that, the M4 is just as playful and fun as the E9X or any past generation."

And I would put the M2C as even better the F8x in terms of driving experience.

I did 15k miles and 20 track days in my E90 M3. Never found the engine to be anemic, plenty of power for cruising around and very satisfying to hustle. By contrast the M2C engine was flat above 5.5k RPM because they neutred the tune. This made it somewhat unsatisfying to rev out, and didn't help the exhaust tone was an off kilter blare thanks to the dueling 3 cylinder tone. The M3 CS which I have driven has very impressive power delivery and pulls hard to redline, same acoustic limitations though.

On weight, a stripper E92 M3 weighs basically the same as an F8x M3/M4. I understand why people like the f8x though, and from a performance standpoint its certainly a big step change. It's just not clear cut to me that its better..

[heavyD^2]

You have to admit the E90 has not aged well in the looks department. It's always looks a little too much Pontiac for me.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

You have to admit the E90 has not aged well in the looks department. It's always looks a little too much Pontiac for me.

It's going to age better than the new monstrosity that's for sure.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

You have to admit the E90 has not aged well in the looks department. It's always looks a little too much Pontiac for me.

I don't love the E90 but I think the E92 still looks great. The F80 has grown on me over time, but I still don't love the hood line and the bumper still strikes me as busy. Side and rear views are money. Owed an E92 and still own an F80.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

The E90's notoriety was it was only M3 with V8, but the car was heavy & the engine was kind of anemic and needed to be revved up which isn't always practical in everyday driving. The F8x was lighter, more powerful and immediate. The E90 clearly sounds better but the F8x clearly looks better.

Overall, I agree with the conclusion from bmwblog.com: "As the proud owner of the E90 pictured above and one who is frequently guilty of ///M nostalgia, this author really has nothing to gain from capitulation, but resistance is futile. The M4 is so clearly superior to the E9X generation M3 in every performance area. And not only that, the M4 is just as playful and fun as the E9X or any past generation."

And I would put the M2C as even better the F8x in terms of driving experience.

Owned E46 and E92 and currently own F80. Agree F80 is overall pick. That said, definitely prefer E92 steering and sound, and I also prefer interior. Do not agree F80 is as playful as E46, but obviously subjective.

[dang2407]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

My perfect M car would be a roadgoing version of the E89 Z4. But as an M coupe with the s65 v8 engine. would dump my f80 in a heartbeat. The Z3M is a bit dated now and the S54 cars are a ton of money for what they are. The z4m is just plain ugly.

The race-cars always look awesome. There's a lovely M8 (I think) at Munich airport...

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

It's going to age better than the new monstrosity that's for sure.

Not so sure. It's a forgettable look while the G80 will be remembered for better or worse.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Not so sure. It's a forgettable look while the G80 will be remembered for better or worse.

Definitely worse. It's BMWs 996

[Darth One]

There are some classic bpost overreactions on this thread. Someone even slagged the entire country of the UK in retaliation for the opinions of one English person

I actually agree with all of the article, save for not having an opinion on those cars i haven't driven myself. Yeah, it's kinda harsh on the F80, but not wrong. Although BMW's done it's best to fix some of the issues with the Comp/CS/GTS.

Their broad opinions that the SUV's being “misses” are not wrong either, if being a "miss" means that they don't align with the M ethos. They don't. Doesn't mean that they can't be good vehicles that their owners enjoy, of course, but they're pretty far from what M was originally about.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Being remembered does not mean a design will age well (Pontiac, 996, etc). In contrast even if the F80 has a forgettable design (which I don't agree on) does not mean that it wouldn't age well.

Plenty of BMW's like the X3, 5er or other brand's cars are forgettable in looks, but they age well over time due to the clean design.

The G80 isn't even out yet so discussing how well it's going to age is a little premature. I know there are strong opinions today but after four or more years when it's pretty common people's opinions will change.

[G80indy]

The e92M still looks fresh w/ timeless appeal & proportions .... not the e90 nor e93.
F80- We'll see how it looks in 10 years if it can hold up like the e92 has.
This G80 is an abomination sorry to say

[850CSi]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

You have to admit the E90 has not aged well in the looks department. It's always looks a little too much Pontiac for me.

I agree if we're talking pre-LCI. The LCI front end really fixed the design IMO.

As others have said I think the E92 is the real looker, second only to the E46 coupe, which is the best looking 3er of all time IMO.

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Definitely worse. It's BMWs 996

Man there's a lot of 996 slander on this page. It's the most underrated and needlessly maligned 911 of all time, I will die on this hill! (And I swear it's not because I'm actively searching for its 986 lil bro...)

[scoale]

Originally Posted by 850CSi

I agree if we're talking pre-LCI. The LCI front end really fixed the design IMO.

As others have said I think the E92 is the real looker, second only to the E46 coupe, which is the best looking 3er of all time IMO.





Man there's a lot of 996 slander on this page. It's the most underrated and needlessly maligned 911 of all time, I will die on this hill! (And I swear it's not because I'm actively searching for its 986 lil bro...)

Agree on 996. People acting like they would chase it out of the driveway if Santa dropped it off for Christmas.

[Tambohamilton]

"E90/91/92 M3: hit"

...actually, that's a miss. If only there was an E91 M3!

[dmk08]

Seems pretty spot on to me. Definitely agree with the F80 being a miss overall.

I dont agree with the E60 being a hit. Its rear end is as ugly as the G80 front end.