Initial Bilstein Clubsport Suspension review

[MPower7]

Originally Posted by Mvez

KW not even in same league as Bilstein, and the JRZ will need rebuild soon and be rattle cans if you drive on the street very much. The Bilstein has race performance that can be driven, reliably on the street.

Really depends on what you want. The other day a buddy asked me what he should get since he's only driving on the street, and he knew I had Bilstein clubsport. I told him 100% get Ohlins R&T....but if you track a little, and drive mostly on the street, then probably Ohlins R&T with stiffer springs. If you track and want the best track performance, but still able to drive on the street, then 100% Bilstein clubsport. If you have a race-car, Bilstein clubsports are still be a great option.

If you only have 2K to spend, you would be crazy to buy KW over Ohlins, but the Bilsteins are worth the stretch. IMO, they are a better value because they can handle full race spring rates, but still offer very civil manners on street. Ohlins offer great manners on street, but can't really handle full-track spring rates and need to be re-valved. By the time you add springs and re-valve, you could have had Bilsteins.

So it looks like KW Clubsports will be the best option for track/daily driving without spending the Money for the Bilsetins?

[Exclusivs]

Originally Posted by MPower7

So it looks like KW Clubsports will be the best option for track/daily driving without spending the Money for the Bilsetins?

100%
Cannot speak for Bilstein street manor. But KW CS are how the car should have come stock. Very well mannered, quiet, not jarring to you or passengers. But provide significant connective feeling to car when driving spiritedly.

[aus]

Originally Posted by MPower7

So it looks like KW Clubsports will be the best option for track/daily driving without spending the Money for the Bilsetins?

Here's another option while the Group Buy lasts for JRZ's. The RS2's I priced out came out to a little over $3,300.

https://www.gangup.com/apex/jrz-rs-e9x-e82-q3-2018.html

.

[shrimp_chips]

Just wondering what C/R settings are you running now?

[JsL]

Found this video and thought I'd share here.

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by shrimp_chips

Just wondering what C/R settings are you running now?

I'm typically running 4C/6R or 5C/7R front, and 5C/8R or 6C/8R rear....haven't been to the track much with it lately to test more, due to building an FRS race car last year for GLTC. I'll be taking it to NCM a lot more this year, so will play some more with it. Keep in mind, I have bigger sway bars, on both ends, so those without a bigger rear sway may need a different setup. My current setup is very neutral, on the loose side.

I have since replaced the Bilstein camber plates with Ground control ones, simply to get more camber. The Bilstein ones can get about -3.5 but that's about it (you could get more if you went with a really aggressive front ride height, but I keep mine reasonable for street driving), and I wanted to be able to go to -4 if needed. Right now I'm at -3.7 front, -2.2 rear and that seems to be pretty good for NT01 type grip and wear.

Otherwise still loving them.

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by Exclusivs

100%
Cannot speak for Bilstein street manor. But KW CS are how the car should have come stock. Very well mannered, quiet, not jarring to you or passengers. But provide significant connective feeling to car when driving spiritedly.

KW twin-tubes simply don't perform as well as monotubes on track, which is why the KW are more comfortable on the street, as that's what twin-tubes are better for, civility. But if street driving is the focus, I still pick Ohlins DFV over KW all day long. For predominant track driving, I pick Bilstein, or re-valved/sprung Ohlins DFV.

Refer to my earlier post about the shootout between the M4's. One is on KW clubs and Trofeo-R, with a lot more hp, and still can't match the lap time of a Bilstein car on Cup-2, which are 1-2 seconds a lap slower just on tires alone. If you want a track setup, Bilsteins outperform KW every time.

[gmx]

Originally Posted by Mvez

I'm typically running 4C/6R or 5C/7R front, and 5C/8R or 6C/8R rear....haven't been to the track much with it lately to test more, due to building an FRS race car last year for GLTC. I'll be taking it to NCM a lot more this year, so will play some more with it. Keep in mind, I have bigger sway bars, on both ends, so those without a bigger rear sway may need a different setup. My current setup is very neutral, on the loose side.

I have since replaced the Bilstein camber plates with Ground control ones, simply to get more camber. The Bilstein ones can get about -3.5 but that's about it (you could get more if you went with a really aggressive front ride height, but I keep mine reasonable for street driving), and I wanted to be able to go to -4 if needed. Right now I'm at -3.7 front, -2.2 rear and that seems to be pretty good for NT01 type grip and wear.

Otherwise still loving them.

I've considered getting another top plate machined. The limit seems to be the strut tower and supplied top plate itself. The strut is inverted so we don't have to worry about the top nut / adjuster protruding from the tower access hole in the engine bay. I'm wondering was the GC camber plate easy to change to and if you have any pics?



As you can see the top monoball is simply held in by hex key screws. Disassembled, this is just a simple triangular plate. The same basic plate with more "meat" to allow a larger slider area or just an offset area (would affect minimum camber achievable) is probably what the GC plate achieves?

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by gmx

I've considered getting another top plate machined. The limit seems to be the strut tower and supplied top plate itself. The strut is inverted so we don't have to worry about the top nut / adjuster protruding from the tower access hole in the engine bay. I'm wondering was the GC camber plate easy to change to and if you have any pics?



As you can see the top monoball is simply held in by hex key screws. Disassembled, this is just a simple triangular plate. The same basic plate with more "meat" to allow a larger slider area or just an offset area (would affect minimum camber achievable) is probably what the GC plate achieves?

GC has a "street" camber plate that has a deep inset for the shock, just like the Bilstein one, so the shock shaft is still below the strut hole for max camber. Those guys are great, I just showed them the Bilstein one, and they included 60mm upper spring perches, and ensured it fit the shock shaft. They have a "short" stack version which gains you 21mm of travel over stock (Bilstein is 10mm gain over stock), so that's what I went with, but the standard height one works perfectly fine too, which matches the Bilstein unit (10mm of travel increase over stock) identically.

The car def drives a bit smoother on the street, and track performance is the same, but now with more camber for better tire wear. I thought about using one of their race plates, but this one seemed better for a dual purpose car, and was much closer in terms of design and stack height, so it's the best choice.

I can forward you my emails with them, and they can easily make one for you as well, for an exact fit like mine. I've been very happy with it, and there are plenty of track guys who use this one, who drive to the track.

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...t-camber-plate

Or like you said, you can just have another triangle base plate machined to allow for more sliding room of the Bilstein bearing.

[gmx]

Originally Posted by Mvez

GC has a "street" camber plate that has a deep inset for the shock, just like the Bilstein one, so the shock shaft is still below the strut hole for max camber. Those guys are great, I just showed them the Bilstein one, and they included 60mm upper spring perches, and ensured it fit the shock shaft. They have a "short" stack version which gains you 21mm of travel over stock (Bilstein is 10mm gain over stock), so that's what I went with, but the standard height one works perfectly fine too, which matches the Bilstein unit (10mm of travel increase over stock) identically.

The car def drives a bit smoother on the street, and track performance is the same, but now with more camber for better tire wear. I thought about using one of their race plates, but this one seemed better for a dual purpose car, and was much closer in terms of design and stack height, so it's the best choice.

I can forward you my emails with them, and they can easily make one for you as well, for an exact fit like mine. I've been very happy with it, and there are plenty of track guys who use this one, who drive to the track.

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...t-camber-plate

Or like you said, you can just have another triangle base plate machined to allow for more sliding room of the Bilstein bearing.

PM me if you don't mind. I'm a bit confused if they purely made an upper plate only and adapter the Bilstein bearing to it. I like the Bilstein bearing, everything about it - I think it's a work of art!

I'm also have a bit a mind blank over the increased travel. This would effectively move the spring stack down and potentially impact clearance between the tyre and lower spring perch. Or is the plate actually thinner meaning the opposite is true?

I have a Vorshlag plate here I used prior on OEM struts and am thinking about measuring/scanning it's outer dimensions then adapting the Bilstein hardware (set screw, slider width, bearing assembly to slider offsets, centre to centre, thread and tap for the allen cap screw)

[Mvez]

It's been a while, but figured I should post about my latest spring and camber plate setups.

In order to get more camber, I swapped to GC's hybrid/street plate with the poly bushing, and man, that really does ride nicely on the street and isolates NVH better. Now I can get more camber, and the ride quality has improved. It's a win-win. I had previously swapped to 700/1000 springs, which seems to be a common "track" setup (same as Ohlins Dedicated RT), and while handling was alot better over the kit's 600/800 on track, it still felt a bit too soft.

I've since upgraded to 850/1200 and this feels great. I think this is the winner setup, especially for a full interior 3400# car. Damping still feels great, the bilsteins have enough valving range to handle plenty of spring rate. Handling is also even more neutral with larger split F/R. Definitely would recommend.

I routinely hot lap this car back to back with my other cars on Ohlins TTX, Ohlins R&T, and JRZ RS Pro, and continually come away impressed by the performance of these shocks. They might not have all the fancy features that some others have, but it's a bomb-proof setup that just works really well. Shame these kits aren't made for more cars....

[//steve\\]

Square wheels and tire or still staggered?

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

Square wheels and tire or still staggered?

Square 275 tire setup for the track.
I just run stock tire sizes for the street.

[gmx]

What springs were you using to change from the Bilstein rear?
Since 2020 I did lose a bit of interest and focus on the car. Although I loosely remember Ohlins lower perches with Ohlins springs as they seem to have the same ID as the Bilstein adjuster. But I have no idea what length to get.

I went the other way (1M), changed to 500 on the front. I'll go 570 again if I can stiffen the rear reasonably well to something like 900~

How much camber do you have now and do you still dual purpose the car with such rates or not so much?

[former 240 s14]

Just ordered my BS Clubsports this week and will be putting them on before going to Ozark International in April.

MVEZ, thanks for the setup info in this post, it appears you and I have similar feeling of conservative ride height for street use, what is your height setup between front and rear on these?

Thanks,

Rubin

[Yeee82]

Originally Posted by Mvez

It's been a while, but figured I should post about my latest spring and camber plate setups.

In order to get more camber, I swapped to GC's hybrid/street plate with the poly bushing, and man, that really does ride nicely on the street and isolates NVH better. Now I can get more camber, and the ride quality has improved. It's a win-win. I had previously swapped to 700/1000 springs, which seems to be a common "track" setup (same as Ohlins Dedicated RT), and while handling was alot better over the kit's 600/800 on track, it still felt a bit too soft.

I've since upgraded to 850/1200 and this feels great. I think this is the winner setup, especially for a full interior 3400# car. Damping still feels great, the bilsteins have enough valving range to handle plenty of spring rate. Handling is also even more neutral with larger split F/R. Definitely would recommend.

I routinely hot lap this car back to back with my other cars on Ohlins TTX, Ohlins R&T, and JRZ RS Pro, and continually come away impressed by the performance of these shocks. They might not have all the fancy features that some others have, but it's a bomb-proof setup that just works really well. Shame these kits aren't made for more cars....

What are your compression and rebound settings with the upgraded 850/1200 spring rates?

[danvitmon]

Interested for those setting as well as what sway bar settings you run now. I am sold on the Bilsteins from your posts and would love to buy a set but need to sell my E36 M3 to make up some room and money for more fun parts

[siulung2005]

bumping up an old thread. Looks like Bilstein stop making the CS version anymore. If anyone is selling the CS kit, I am interested in buying. Just lmk!

[Mvez]

Sorry guys, been quite a while and busy with other project builds, but my E92 is still trucking along, getting better than ever.

A few answers/info to some recent questions above:

1. Bilstein is slowly phasing out "Clubsport" lines for the replacement, which are the same but with nicer upgrades, called "EVO-R". They are the same double adjustable race setups, but with nicer features.

For example, the rear shocks in the new E92 M3 EVO R kit are to be inverted, which is a really nice feature. Bilstein takes forever to release things, as they are a huge OEM type company, but the product is top notch.

Usually there are sets still around on vendor shelves though, so I'm sure if you look you can find a set of Clubsports if you dont' want to wait.

[Mvez]

I've since updated some things on my car, to give it another small "upgrade" since it's last major update.

1. I sent off my Bilstein Clubsports to PSI for rebuild and re-valve for ideal control of the 850/1200 lb spring rates. Car def works better since the revalve, as I have a more useable full range. These rates are approaching 50% more than the baseline valving, so def doesn't hurt.

If anybody questions those rates for the track, I suggest you research the Ohlins TTX kit, which uses 800/1142 lbs rates for their kits (with stock rear contol arm). My rate choice is very good for a full interior/weight street car.
The previous 700/1000 iused was still pretty darn soft. Those Ohlins "Dedicated" kits need to update their spring rates.

I still have my Hotchkis bars front/rear, with front set on 1 off full soft, and rear to full stiff. I also added some Powergrid adjustable endlinks to remove any sway-bar pre-load.

2. I have added some small additional chassis bracing at the front/mid/rear of the car to tighten up things a bit more. After driving some new BMW M cars, you can really feel the effects of all that extra bracing on the chassis. These are all nicely engineered pieces that add some meaningful stiffening using all factory mounting points. The front factory strut brace is nice, but I always felt like it needed some triangulation to help a bit more. The Ultra racing parts are steel, which adds better stiffening without too much weight.

3. Proactively replaced the Throttle actuator gear set. The OEM ones looked pretty good, but when replacing the Thermostat, we decided to go ahead and do this while we were "in there".

4. Finally, and best of all, I have an OS Giken LSD with a new rear diff pumpkin being built, so that I can have a full OEM spare, for when future rebuilds may be needed. I've put this off for a long time, but the OE diff is def showing it's age, and it's time to give this car a bit more drive off corners! Sourcing those E39 M5 drive flanges is getting hard, had to get a pair from Europe! Should have that installed soon for some track testing!

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by Yeee82

What are your compression and rebound settings with the upgraded 850/1200 spring rates?

Since my re-valve in early 2024, I run the front pretty soft.

Front - I think it's like 2-3 Comp, and 4-6 Rebound.
Rear - Depends on the track, but usually between 6-9 Comp, 7-10 Reb.

What I like about the Clubsports is you use the entire range, there are no "wasted" adjustment settings like on other kits where they have 15-20+ clicks, and most of them are totally un-useable at either end. Bilstein engineers their kits so that you use the whole range, and if you want more, you really should change the spring rate. That's actually how pro-racing teams engineer chassis setup.

[former 240 s14]

I had the Clubsports on my E90 M, loved them and appreciated the build quality. There were light years away from the MCS I run on my current E92. If the car I had didn't already have the MCS's I would of definately considered buying these again or going JRZ. I have been disappointed in the rebuild cycle for MCS. I did try the JRZ's at NJMP on two different E46's last year and was very happy with the characteristics.

Rubin