My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[roastbeef]

Jrz's needed another refresh?

[fsmtnbiker]

Holy cow that was fast!! Can’t wait to see these things out there this weekend.

[evilspiritM3]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Jrz's needed another refresh?

Refreshed into the FS section? Don't look back. Welcome to the MCS cult.

[dogbone]

hehe so......this is what happens when you sit bored in an AirBNB for a week in Los Angeles hiding from covid while waiting for your next track day. You turn things over in your head. Then you start making phone calls. And then based on those conversations, you make more phone calls. And then before you know it, 3-way MCS full coilovers are on the car!

I want to start by thanking Casey/Racewerkz for acquiring the MCS dampers so quickly. And I want to thank Danny/MiniCorsa for the install. And thanks to fsmtnbiker for his insights and the ride in his car at High Plains.

I pushed the GO button on this on Wednesday. The dampers were overnighted from the East Coast and arrived Thursday. And I barely had time to take a couple pictures of the set before Danny was installing them on the car. Really appreciate everyone's efforts. We'll get an alignment today first thing, and then I'm off to Chuckwalla.

Alright, so here's the story. Back in 2012, I purchased the JRZ RS Pro setup when I was a totally novice driver. At the time, I didn't want a beast of a car, so JRZ said they would do a "street/track valving" to the dampers. I loved the JRZs. They did a great job. And they did well as the mods started. But then the modding turned more extreme. And the tires became more formidable. And then the car went full stupid with aero and cage and gutting and who knows what else. But the dampers never changed. As time went on, I started to sense that perhaps the dampers needed to be upgraded. It wasn't the fault of the dampers. It was because the car had changed so much. There's nothing "street" about the car anymore.

2020 has been a year where I haven't driven the car much, but I've had lots of conversations about suspension. The consensus from anyone I talked to was that I was asking a lot from dampers that weren't setup for what I was now doing with them. And again, to their credit, the dampers were still putting down good lap times. The question was: Is there more to be had? I commit to buying new slicks. Am I able to maximize what the tires offer? I committed to new front aero that will hopefully arrive in January that should put more forces on the car. Again, are the dampers ready? The answer simply seemed to be no.

Another thing that has really bothered me and was motivating me to deal with the overall topic of suspension was that with my old soft setup, I had been rubbing my front aero on the ground and grinding it away. I don't know if I have a good picture of it, but on the driver side, the splitter has been severely ground away from rubbing the ground so much. I refused to get new aero and subject it to that. Something had to be done.

The first (and unexpected) moment that put a new spin on this topic was 5 weeks ago when I met fsmtnbiker at High Plains Raceway in CO. I got a ride in his car just for fun to get a vibe of the aero that I was ordering. But what really intrigued me was how his car hooked up with the pavement even at slow speeds when the aero wasn't doing a whole lot. The feel of the suspension was very interesting to me. He was on brand new MCS 2-way remotes. It really stuck in my mind.

Then, a couple weeks ago, Tony drove my car after he did the suspension setup. One of the first things he said when he came back into the paddock was that he thought a re-valving would be necessary for the dampers to control the springs and tires.

And then I called Olsen Motorsport this week. Talked to Tim Olsen. Very nice guy. I described to him my setup. And then first thing he said to me was, "those dampers can't properly control that much tire and setup."

Anyway, the story was very consistent no matter who I talked to------the JRZ RS Pro dampers are good; but they were just not setup to deal with this level of motorsport configuration.

Ok, so what to do?

The conversation with Olsen Motorsport was fruitful. They said the diameter of the damper housings of the blue RS Pro and the red Motorsport version were the same. They could replace all the internal parts with 3-way Motorsport parts and turn it into a full 3-way motorsport system. It would take a couple weeks, and it wasn't cheap ($6k) but it was cheaper than starting over with new JRZ 3-ways. Olsen also claimed that they were available to provide setup support via phone. If you had questions while at the track, they were willing to help.

Then I talked to Racewerkz. They are the West Coast dealer for MCS. Casey (who built my cage) has been trying to get me onto MCS for a long time. We talked about the MCS 3-way offering and that by getting a new setup, we could go full coilover which he felt was a nice step up. (JRZ would remain a divorced setup even with an upgrade.) He didn't have the 3-ways in stock at the moment. But he thought that he could get them quickly if needed (if I was willing to pay the overnight fees). Casey has always been great and willing to give me support. So, I had no hesitations from that standpoint.

I spoke to fsmtnbiker this week. He said that he has disassembled all major brands of dampers to see what was inside. His insights were helpful. In the end, he thought both would do well.

As far as logistics, because I live in CO and the car is in CA, upgrading the JRZs was a much more painful process than just getting new MCS dampers and putting them in this week and driving them this weekend. The JRZs would need to be removed and something else would need to be installed on the car (at least in the front), otherwise I would need to tie up someone's lift for 2 weeks while the JRZs were rebuilt. And then would my car sit in someone's shop until......next year? Or....what. Argh. With covid, I'm not traveling much. Lots of unknowns would have to be sorted out to upgrade what I have. And then, with the JRZs, I would have a Motorsport-line setup in a street-looking damper. If I ever tried to sell them, there would be a lot of explaining.......

The other idea that several people floated is that if I bought new MCS, I could sell the JRZs to help offset the cost.

The challenge of trying to pull all this bullshit off before the Chuckwalla weekend was exciting. I loved the idea of getting the car on the path to being sorted out from a suspension standpoint this week, before the front aero shows up in Jan. (I don't plan on being in CA until some time next year.) This seemed like a great way to do it. So, I told Casey on Wednesday, "if you can get the dampers here by Thurs, I'll do the deal right now. If they can't get here this week, then I'm going to wait and wonder what to do into next year." haha he crushed it. I got a notice from him by the end of the day that he had a tracking number. Awesome. And because Casey is an MCS dealer, he had all the necessary supporting parts. Even more awesome!

And this switch over was even less painful because my Vorshlag camber plates worked with the new dampers and so did my sway bar end links.

So, that's the story. I know I've been a big JRZ fan over the years and this seems like a sudden switch. In some ways it is, but in other ways it isn't. I'm sure the JRZ 3-way Motorsport is nice. But the logistics were so painful to upgrade what I have. And there's so much positive feedback out there about MCS these days. And I'm excited to try something new.

In some ways, I'm sad I went with MCS because now I won't have anything to bicker about with Casey!!! Pretty much every time we have spoken in the last few years, one of us has taken a jab at the other about suspension. hehe Geez.....now I'm not going to have anything to talk to him about..... At least with SYT_Shadow, I can still argue about BBKs with him.

While Danny was installing the suspension, he said, "I see how it goes. You get beat at GTA so then money starts pouring into the car....." I was like NOOOOO! The timing is ironic!! He laughed and said, "no no, it was time." I think that sums it up.

Anyway, after all this, it is an understatement to say that I am looking forward to the Chuckwalla event this weekend.

[SYT_Shadow]

I'm looking forward to your impressions Mr Bone. I think the higher spring rates will help with the full slicks you run and hopefully the damping is better than the JRZs.
I don't have to wait long as you're tracking this weekend!

As far as 'losing' GTA being the driving force, you have less mods than the cars I see in the faster PCA HPDE groups, so as far as mods per unit of speed ratio, you don't have much.

[roastbeef]

nice! its going to be fun reading about your experiences with the new suspension... especially three ways.

[DRLane]

Haha, and on that note.

SYT_Shadow enters the room...

Those looks awesome Gabe. You were the lone fast driver making me feel ok about my JRZs.

[//steve\\]

Could just be coincidental but I feel like I see far more posts/comments about JRZ dampers needing to be rebuilt more frequently than the MCS stuff for what sounds like when properly setup pretty equal dampers. I also see more comments about the JRZ stuff being noisier but my gut says that's user error on setup of some sort.

For me MCS was an easy answer. They are based less than 5 miles from my house

Also, @berns (build thread here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1756887) has some solid times running a basic MCS 1WNR setup.

[tsk94]

Those will be a big upgrade over the RS Pro's. Don't think they'd be any better then the Motorsport 3-Way JRZ's, as they are quite similar from what I've heard. But, as you mentioned going with these worked much better with your tight schedule. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the upgrade.

What spring rates did you end up going with? And interesting that they came with a tender spring in the rear coilover setup.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Haha, and on that note.

SYT_Shadow enters the room...

Those looks awesome Gabe. You were the lone fast driver making me feel ok about my JRZs.

I wouldn't worry. We've seen super fast people on what many would consider to be 'mediocre' suspension like a KW CS 2way.

In the end fast people are fast and the technical conditions of the vehicle/alignment/suspension/tires are not a huge impediment to putting down good times. Now, if you are like Mr Bone and pushing and pushing the envelope eventually you reach the point where you really benefit from more technically advanced stuff.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by tsk94

And interesting that they came with a tender spring in the rear coilover setup.

On my M3 CS I have full coilovers (also MCS 3WR) and I have little rear tender springs as well.

I wish they fit in the front, but in the front I have no tender so I can continue to use a 5" spring

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I wouldn't worry. We've seen super fast people on what many would consider to be 'mediocre' suspension like a KW CS 2way.

In the end fast people are fast and the technical conditions of the vehicle/alignment/suspension/tires are not a huge impediment to putting down good times. Now, if you are like Mr Bone and pushing and pushing the envelope eventually you reach the point where you really benefit from more technically advanced stuff.

This couldn't be more true. A fast driver in a poorly setup car will 99% of the time still be faster than the slow driver in a perfectly setup car.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

On my M3 CS I have full coilovers (also MCS 3WR) and I have little rear tender springs as well.

I wish they fit in the front, but in the front I have no tender so I can continue to use a 5" spring

The Hyperco zero rate helpers really don't take up much space. That's what my front MCS setup has and it's still also on a 6" front spring at this time. My wheels aren't really requiring the extra space so it isn't a huge deal but I will eventually likely bump the spring rate a bit and at that time switch to 5" springs.

[Richbot]

Don't think I never seent no inverted shock befo

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

The Hyperco zero rate helpers really don't take up much space. That's what my front MCS setup has and it's still also on a 6" front spring at this time. My wheels aren't really requiring the extra space so it isn't a huge deal but I will eventually likely bump the spring rate a bit and at that time switch to 5" springs.

That's what I used to have in the front. Won't fit if you try running an 11" wheel and wide tire.
You'd have to drop to a 4.5 spring which is not good

[b4hand]

Damn, lost another JRZ brother to the dark side. Hope these work well and you can get under 2:20 at cota

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Don't think I never seent no inverted shock befo

Ya know what makes me laugh is that they put the logos so they’re upside down when the damper is installed!!

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I wouldn't worry. We've seen super fast people on what many would consider to be 'mediocre' suspension like a KW CS 2way.

In the end fast people are fast and the technical conditions of the vehicle/alignment/suspension/tires are not a huge impediment to putting down good times. Now, if you are like Mr Bone and pushing and pushing the envelope eventually you reach the point where you really benefit from more technically advanced stuff.

Agree as well.

But, it's important to note that the Clubsports and anything from MCS isn't very comparable. The Clubsports are essentially a revalved street damper from KW, compared to a motorsport derived product like MCS. An MCS 1WNR kit is still 25% more expensive then an off the shelf 2-way Clubsport - for the money the CS's offer great performance.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

On my M3 CS I have full coilovers (also MCS 3WR) and I have little rear tender springs as well.

I wish they fit in the front, but in the front I have no tender so I can continue to use a 5" spring

I've seen it with MCS before, but I think it's the first time I've seen a tender spring on an MCS setup on an E9X M3. What rate are your tenders on your car?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Agree as well.

But, it's important to note that the Clubsports and anything from MCS isn't very comparable. The Clubsports are essentially a revalved street damper from KW, compared to a motorsport derived product like MCS. An MCS 1WNR kit is still 25% more expensive then an off the shelf 2-way Clubsport - for the money the CS's offer great performance.



I've seen it with MCS before, but I think it's the first time I've seen a tender spring on an MCS setup on an E9X M3. What rate are your tenders on your car?

I agree on the KW CS. But we've seen Jakob be super fast with a damper that is not designed at all for serious track use

I have helpers front and rear on the E90 and in the rear of the F80. They're all the Hyperco springs, you can smush it with your hand. Almost a slinky

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I agree on the KW CS. But we've seen Jakob be super fast with a damper that is not designed at all for serious track use

I have helpers front and rear on the E90 and in the rear of the F80. They're all the Hyperco springs, you can smush it with your hand. Almost a slinky

Yes, Jakob is a good example. Took him over a year or so I believe to get his MCS 3-ways to be faster then the CS.

Ah, okay. You said tender at first so I got a bit confused. If they can be compressed by hand they are a helper. A tender is a usually a bit of a higher rate (100+ lb/in) and that's what it looks like Gabe has on his rears - curious to know the actual rate and why they went that route vs just a longer main spring in the back.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Just for note a 1:48:x is one of the fastest if not fastest time set by a BMW at Buttonwillow. Looking back at the BMW CCA Club Racing fast lap list. I only see Ralph Warren breaking the 1:50 barrier in his B-Mod E92 13CW.

Ralph is still naturally aspirated though in the E90M3 BM car, right? He's properly quick (as are TC and VJ).

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by admranger

Ralph is still naturally aspirated though in the E90M3 BM car, right? He's properly quick (as are TC and VJ).

Yeah I haven't talked to Ralph in ages but I am fairly certain his motor is basically stock. I know Tony is running a detuned S54 but VJ is running some kind of trick engine him and Mino cooked up. All three of those guys are fast but VJ has done some pro racing in the past so he may have a slight edge.

If Dogbone takes his chassis / suspension setup to the next level like he is starting to do I honestly think low 1:40s is possible. Maybe even more who knows?

Dogbone, do you have any other chassis or aero work planned over the winter? Maybe a Zebulon rear wing or underbody work?