BMW confirms next 7 Series to be petrol, diesel, hybrid and range topping electric

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I remain skeptical of this possibility. Here's why:

- Mercedes just debuted the new W223 S Class and the V8 is still the volume engine for the US for now. Clearly there is still a strong market for V8 power in this class of vehicle. While it is true that Mercedes has plans for an I6 PHEV model with as much power as the V8, it is not expected to replace that model in the lineup. Additionally, Audi's A8, like Mercedes S Class still offers V8 power.

- BMW has been held onto their V8 engine in more models than either of their German counterparts. For example, neither the Audi S6 nor Mercedes E53 use a V8 while BMW's competitor, the M550i, does.

- As you acknowledge, the V8 virtually has to stick around for the SUVs, so why not continue to offer it in sedans? A counterpoint to this would be to cite that the Audi SQ7 and Mercedes GLE580 have V8 power despite the aforementioned sedans forgoing it, so BMW could follow suit. And I'd agree that the G60 5 Series might well go that route. But the G70 7 Series? It seems unlikely.

Could Alpina simply take up the slack in the market for the M550i, 750i, and M850i? Perhaps. But I am not ready to bet on it yet, especially for the latter two.

All of that is valid. I guess it depends on how that Borg Warner 48v turbo system is implemented and when it will be ready for production. That could allow for low end torque and top end power out of a smaller engine.

There must be a point where the M60-S68 engine family phases out though, still the same bore spacing from 1992! Obviously everything has been changed just like the Chevy LS1 but how many times has the inline family been completely rebuilt from ground up in that time, 50/52, 54/55, 58 series = 3 full families. Plus even the old M30/S38 if you want to include those existing designs.

In saying that, the bigger bore spacing won't make the V8 longer than the B/S58 so maybe it doesn't matter much?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

All of that is valid. I guess it depends on how that Borg Warner 48v turbo system is implemented and when it will be ready for production. That could allow for low end torque and top end power out of a smaller engine.

New technology will continue to push power-per-displacement higher, but I think the market for V8 engines in high end luxury vehicles goes beyond performance. There is still a prestige factor. It's similar to how the V12 lasted as long as it did in this class even when the V8 has long since had the ability to yield higher performance.

There must be a point where the M60-S68 engine family phases out though, still the same bore spacing from 1992!

...

In saying that, the bigger bore spacing won't make the V8 longer than the B/S58 so maybe it doesn't matter much?

If the S68 doesn't usher in an all new design (such as switching to the same 91mm bore spacing the inline family uses), I think they'll keep the current architecture until the end. As you say, the engine is still shorter than an I6, and it's difficult to imagine there being enough volume past the end of this decade to warrant any major change.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

New technology will continue to push power-per-displacement higher, but I think the market for V8 engines in high end luxury vehicles goes beyond performance. There is still a prestige factor. It's similar to how the V12 lasted as long as it did in this class even when the V8 has long since had the ability to yield higher performance.



If the S68 doesn't usher in an all new design (such as switching to the same 91mm bore spacing the inline family uses), I think they'll keep the current architecture until the end. As you say, the engine is still shorter than an I6, and it's difficult to imagine there being enough volume past the end of this decade to warrant any major change.

There was this article a little while ago - I can see that there is some logic here, even with direct injection if you're on boost in a test you'll be well below being able to run 14.7:1 AFR so if a larger engine can stay off boost and maybe via cylinder deactivation can still idle and cruise at a lower swept capacity it could be possible to have a larger engine do better. Broadly Mazda has been doing that for a while with their 2.5 n/a engine - similar power to the mainstream 1.8 turbo engines and similar or higher efficiency in the real world.

https://www.wheels.ca/news/porsche-e...r-not-smaller/

I just hope somehow somewhere I can get a 48v Borg Warner turbo on my M6 or get one hooked up to a V8 with a DCT

[M5Rick]

Makes the ugly sisters in Cinderella look beautiful,sack the designer and start again.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

S68 is still a thing to come. But I wonder if everything other than M5, M8, X5/6/7 and Alpina versions will lose the V8 soon.

But not in the 7 Series... there is no V8 and no V12 for the next generation.

[gmag]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

S68 is still a thing to come. But I wonder if everything other than M5, M8, X5/6/7 and Alpina versions will lose the V8 soon.

Word from BMW "insiders" is that apart from the new S68 V8 engine, BMW is set to totally phase out the V8 by the year 2027 at the latest. Blame the ever tightening European emissions regulations as well as Chinese regulations for this because they make it economically unsound to continue developing & offering the V8 while at the same time developing more efficient PHEV & electric drivetrains. BMW has therefore decided to go the in-line-6 PHEV route starting with the next generation 7 series (G70/71). The N63 V8 will be replaced by this in-line-6 PHEV drivetrain in the next generation 5 series (G60), X5, X6 & X7.

Though BMW will be the first among the German automakers to do this, the rest are set to follow...in fact Mercedes (for the new W223 s class) is set to market their upcoming in-line-6 PHEV S580e in a position that overshadows the ICE V8 S580 by among other things, deliberately limiting the power output of the ICE S580 to below the power output of the PHEV S580e.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by gmag

Word from BMW "insiders" is that apart from the new S68 V8 engine, BMW is set to totally phase out the V8 by the year 2027 at the latest.

...

The N63 V8 will be replaced by this in-line-6 PHEV drivetrain in the next generation 5 series (G60), X5, X6 & X7.

According to ynguldyn's future BMW information thread, the end dates for the vehicles powered by the N63 today are:

G12 7er - 06/22
G31 5er - 02/24
G1x 8er - 06/25
G07 X7 - 07/25
G05 X5 - 07/26
G06 X6 - 03/27

So, 2027 sounds right if indeed BMW has determined that all next generation products can satisfy market demands without V8 power (except M models).

Furthermore, I would agree that if the SUVs will lose the V8 (except M models) after this generation then it makes little sense to continue its development. That still would not preclude the existing N63 finding its way into the G70 or the next generation 8 Series Gran Coupe (assuming it will live - the coupe and convertible probably will not), but it would certainly make that possibility less likely.

[supra93]

It’ll compete against the Mercedes EQS.

Getting the full rundown of the all-electric BMW i7 hasn’t been easy. The German automaker isn’t interested in spilling the details before the car is ready, but few things can stay a secret in the internet age. UK’s Car magazine has a scoop that details many of the i7’s aspects we’ve only heard rumors about, like its range and output, and the latest bit of rumors from the publication paints a very exciting picture.

According to Car, BMW will slip a 100-kilowatt-hour battery into the i7 that’ll give the top-tier all-electric luxury sedan more than 300 miles of range. The publication also reported that the i7 would feature a pair of electric motors, powering all four wheels, that’ll deliver 536 horsepower (399 kilowatts). Previous rumors suggested that the model could produce as much as 650 hp (484 kW), more than the M760i’s 6.6-liter V12; however, that’s still possible if the company has high-performance plans for the model, which seems likely as it will compete against the Mercedes EQS.

The EQS, Mercedes’ i7 equivalent, could spawn a hotter AMG model with over 600 hp (477 kW), which would be better aligned with the rumored 650-hp i7, though it’s far too early to determine what either is planning in the high-performance department. BMW will also pair the i7 with a bevy of safety features and semi-self-driving technologies as BMW positions its EVs as technological powerhouses, which is similar to how Mercedes is selling its EVs.

While the BMW i7 will compete against the Mercedes EQS and other electric sedans, it will arrive late to the party by comparison. Mercedes is further along in developing the EQS, which is expected to arrive for the 2022 model year. The BMW i7 will be a bit further behind, likely debuting in 2022 as a 2023 model, giving Mercedes an early start. However, a lot can change between now and then.

https://www.motor1.com/news/457043/b...sedan-details/

[supra93]

[m3fuz]

My lord - that’s hideous...

If you’re going to butcher the brand, just bring Bangle back.

[quick]

That's Lincoln Continental not a BMW

[supra93]

I think it needs a bigger grille.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by supra93

I think it needs a bigger grille.

Funny you'd say that - SCOTT26 confirmed in another thread that the grille will indeed be bigger and more like G8x height...

[supra93]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Funny you'd say that - SCOTT26 confirmed in another thread that the grille will indeed be bigger and more like G8x height...

Done!

[Germanauto]

These renders just look like refreshed versions of the current model. The G11 was already mostly a refreshed F01, that's why they had to go nuts with the LCI since the 7er was so bland.

[supra93]

Some pics testing in the snow.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/20...-hideous-face/

[Ziosella]

Wow.

[Game]

Originally Posted by Ziosella

Wow.

[supra93]

Eww is more like it lol...

[SCOTT26]

Far More resolved. This render applies the sheet camouflage making it look heavy design wise.
Remember if you see rivets? It's always sheet panelled camouflage applied to the vinyl wrap.

[R N M]

Well for those of us that thought it couldn’t get any worse than 4series/M4 - BMW designers are on a mission to kill the brand...

[six75LT]

this company has officially lost it...