Track forum general chit chat.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

A guy at a local shop said that a HPDE was equivalent to 1,000km or 600 miles of normal driving.

I'm not even sure I agree with that analogy. You are not going to get the fluids that hot and KEEP them that hot on the street, even if you drive like a lunatic. How many of you have ever seen 260 F oil temps on the street?

Street driving is a whole different set of scenarios, the worst of which being cold starts which is where a lot of wear occurs.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

On another note, does anyone have Vibra-Technics engine mounts and noticed that they've degraded over time?

I have the Street versions and there was like no vibration whatsoever when I got them, but it feels like they're beginning to vibrate more as the HPDEs and mileage increases. Could be something else, but it's my first guess.

FWIW, isn't this every engine mount short of fully solid ones?

I have Vibratechnics as well but not enough miles on them to notice a difference between now and when I got the car (previous owner did them)

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

On another note, does anyone have Vibra-Technics engine mounts and noticed that they've degraded over time?

I have the Street versions and there was like no vibration whatsoever when I got them, but it feels like they're beginning to vibrate more as the HPDEs and mileage increases. Could be something else, but it's my first guess.

I have the same engine mounts. I have noticed more vibration over time. Don't know if it's just NVH or if it causes any real issues. I feel better knowing that the casing is metal

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by LeveragedTiger

On another note, does anyone have Vibra-Technics engine mounts and noticed that they've degraded over time?

I have the Street versions and there was like no vibration whatsoever when I got them, but it feels like they're beginning to vibrate more as the HPDEs and mileage increases. Could be something else, but it's my first guess.

i took this video the other week. i've had my vibratechnics road mounts for about 3-4 years now with probably 8-10 track days. i know it isn't a high torque load, but the engine hardly rocks.

[m3heaven]

Anyone going to Buttonwillow 9/11 with SD?

[fsmtnbiker]

Originally Posted by m3heaven

Anyone going to Buttonwillow 9/11 with SD?

Ahh I want to, car is still in Colorado. I might do their next BW 13CW day on October 16th.

[dparm]

I need to tweak the handling characteristics of my car a bit as I am still getting some mid-corner understeer even after the bigger sway bars.

My description would be that turn-in is good, but then the car plows a bit towards the apex, and then of course there can be a bit of oversteer coming out if you get back to power too fast. This is forcing me to do either or both of the following that hurt my lap times:

-drop my corner entry speed to ensure I can get the line I want
-overslow the car in the corner because it feels like I'm going to blow the apex

Everything I'm reading says that for mid-corner understeer you want MORE front bar but that seems backwards. I can't get any more tire up front and the rear bar is not adjustable. Wondering if it's time for an even more aggressive alignment as well (current alignment below). Ideas?

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dparm

I need to tweak the handling characteristics of my car a bit as I am still getting some mid-corner understeer even after the bigger sway bars.

My description would be that turn-in is good, but then the car plows a bit towards the apex, and then of course there can be a bit of oversteer coming out if you get back to power too fast. This is forcing me to do either or both of the following that hurt my lap times:

-drop my corner entry speed to ensure I can get the line I want
-overslow the car in the corner because it feels like I'm going to blow the apex

Everything I'm reading says that for mid-corner understeer you want MORE front bar but that seems backwards. I can't get any more tire up front and the rear bar is not adjustable. Wondering if it's time for an even more aggressive alignment as well. Ideas?

I can't comment on your car but if your reference point is ECR, I'd offer a couple of items before making too many adjustments.

One, that track is understeery. It's been a long time since I got the tires to shudder but it did it several times the first day.

Second, in general for most drivers if the car is pushing a lot in mid corner it's typically because you broke too hard at entry and are trying to get back to throttle sooner than the weight transfer will allow. On days 2 and 3 I tried to brake lighter but trail deeper and then be a bit more patient with throttle.

You also need to detune your engine and/or add weight and get some Hoosiers.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dparm

I need to tweak the handling characteristics of my car a bit as I am still getting some mid-corner understeer even after the bigger sway bars.

My description would be that turn-in is good, but then the car plows a bit towards the apex, and then of course there can be a bit of oversteer coming out if you get back to power too fast. This is forcing me to do either or both of the following that hurt my lap times:

-drop my corner entry speed to ensure I can get the line I want
-overslow the car in the corner because it feels like I'm going to blow the apex

Everything I'm reading says that for mid-corner understeer you want MORE front bar but that seems backwards. I can't get any more tire up front and the rear bar is not adjustable. Wondering if it's time for an even more aggressive alignment as well (current alignment below). Ideas?

You only want more front bar if the understeer is a result of the front leaning too much and overloading the outside tire. Otherwise you'd want less front bar or more rear bar.

I'd also considering more front camber. But that depends on current tire wear and temps - do you have current tire temps at this alignment?

[Richbot]

What moose said. The vette is not a momentum car and every single vette I've driven (and most powerful RWD cars really) wants to exit the corner leaning on its outside rear tire with the wheel mostly straight. Slow down to go faster, if it really is an "understeery" tight-ish track, even more obviously a too much wheel not enough brake problem. Remember even if it's plowing, the rear tire is still taking a side load and feeding in throttle gets you the pushy-loose phenomenon you're experiencing trying to carry too much speed through the middle in a car that is close to traction-limited leaving the corner already

If, after trying that A LOT, the car just doesn't wanna, try some front toe-out.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I can't comment on your car but if your reference point is ECR, I'd offer a couple of items before making too many adjustments.

One, that track is understeery. It's been a long time since I got the tires to shudder but it did it several times the first day.

Second, in general for most drivers if the car is pushing a lot in mid corner it's typically because you broke too hard at entry and are trying to get back to throttle sooner than the weight transfer will allow. On days 2 and 3 I tried to brake lighter but trail deeper and then be a bit more patient with throttle.

This, especially Part 1.
ECR is a VERY pushy track. Number one feedback there is how bad the surface is in regards to it's tendency to induce understeer. If you don't have many adjustments you may just need to deal with it and adjust your driving. I turn up the rebound on my rear shocks to the highest click and soften up the front when I go there. If I had an adjustable rear swaybar I'd be stiffening it up too for ECR and then softening everything back to normal at MSR.

But without any available adjustments I would say adjust the driving to compensate.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i took this video the other week. i've had my vibratechnics road mounts for about 3-4 years now with probably 8-10 track days. i know it isn't a high torque load, but the engine hardly rocks.

need moar revs

[b4hand]

Looking to maybe buy some wheels and tires but I am wondering if it is worth it. I currently have 359M's with 265/285 ps4's. I could maybe sell these for $1500ish. I am thinking of getting a set of 18x10 +25 EC-7's with some cheapo 595RS-Pro's just for some HPDE noob lapping.

Do you guys/gals think it is worth getting the EC-7's being that I am still a noob and I will need to do Novice instruction at most track days here in TX, or should I just stick with the big 19's until I am in Intermediate for most groups. I plan to tow the car to events mainly.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I can't comment on your car but if your reference point is ECR, I'd offer a couple of items before making too many adjustments.

One, that track is understeery. It's been a long time since I got the tires to shudder but it did it several times the first day.

Second, in general for most drivers if the car is pushing a lot in mid corner it's typically because you broke too hard at entry and are trying to get back to throttle sooner than the weight transfer will allow. On days 2 and 3 I tried to brake lighter but trail deeper and then be a bit more patient with throttle.

You also need to detune your engine and/or add weight and get some Hoosiers.

I did get it under control a bit with longer trails, but it still wasn't as neutral as I would like. Agree ECR is understeery, but I was seeing it a bit at COTA (though was on R888R and not RR tires). Car just feels like it would be a lot faster if I could dial this out.

Haven't started any serious planning for TT3 next season, but I do want to figure this stuff out so I can make you and Mark work for those first-place finishes a bit more...

I would need to add about 100-150 pounds of ballast to run Hoosiers, or detune by about 20-25hp.

Originally Posted by tsk94

You only want more front bar if the understeer is a result of the front leaning too much and overloading the outside tire. Otherwise you'd want less front bar or more rear bar.

I'd also considering more front camber. But that depends on current tire wear and temps - do you have current tire temps at this alignment?

I do not have detailed tire temp data other than what the PDR provides. The wear with the sway bars and this alignment is excellent -- pre-sway bars, the front tires were getting annihilated. I had my coach check the tires out and he said they looked great. The car is also not lifting the inside tire nearly as much as it used to, but still not perfect (see photo).

Am also tempted to add a bit of front downforce with the OEM winglets/canards. Only take a few minutes to install and can sell them if there's no improvement.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by b4hand

Looking to maybe buy some wheels and tires but I am wondering if it is worth it. I currently have 359M's with 265/285 ps4's. I could maybe sell these for $1500ish. I am thinking of getting a set of 18x10 +25 EC-7's with some cheapo 595RS-Pro's just for some HPDE noob lapping.

Do you guys/gals think it is worth getting the EC-7's being that I am still a noob and I will need to do Novice instruction at most track days here in TX, or should I just stick with the big 19's until I am in Intermediate for most groups. I plan to tow the car to events mainly.

Put your money towards seat time for now. If you notice tire consumption getting out of hand, or find that the wheels and tires are suddenly the limiting factor, then you can upgrade. As a novice, you aren't going to be at the car's limits -- a 265/285 PS4S setup is pretty good, actually.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dparm

The car is also not lifting the inside tire nearly as much as it used to, but still not perfect (see photo).

Are you coming over a crest in that photo, or is the car always that high?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Are you coming over a crest in that photo, or is the car always that high?

Not entirely sure where that photo was taken at the track, but it does look like I am coming up a hill.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Are you coming over a crest in that photo, or is the car always that high?

Just GrandSport things. Granted this pic is under acceleration but I swear it looks high up in every photo I have of the one I drove some this year.

[dparm]

It's also deceiving because I have non-OEM wheel and tire sizes.

Kelse92 Jeremy's car is Z07 so slightly different shocks, bushings, etc. A little bit stiffer than mine. Sweet photo!

[Move Over]

Does anyone have input on separate high water and oil temperature thresholds? I am setting up my AIM dash alarm configurations and now have separate oil and water temps.

I was going to do 250-260 oil, 150? Water. Not sure why these cars run at when lapping.

Thanks in advance!

[kyippee]

I've often hit 270 oil and 210-215 coolant on hot days, and that's generally when I get uncomfortable with it...

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by kyippee

I've often hit 270 oil and 210-215 coolant on hot days, and that's generally when I get uncomfortable with it...

I sit in about the same range but haven't installed my DO88 oil cooler yet