Track forum general chit chat.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

Looking to get a set of dedicated track wheels. Narrowed my search down to a set of Apex, 18x9.5 ET22 and 18x10.5 ET22. Not trying to set new lap records or anything, just want a set that I can take to the track.

Why not shoot for square setup for track?

[slicer]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

Looking to get a set of dedicated track wheels. Narrowed my search down to a set of Apex, 18x9.5 ET22 and 18x10.5 ET22. Not trying to set new lap records or anything, just want a set that I can take to the track.

I would do 265/35/18, 295/30/18 in R888R given the tire options you are considering

I think the Cup2 is a better street / track tire though. R888R can get very noisy

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Why not shoot for square setup for track?

I was leaning towards a square setup. But after reading a few threads about square vs staggered it seems like the only real advantage of square is just the ability to rotate 4 tires around.

I am not set on either or, so I'm open to suggestion. Convince me one way or another.

Originally Posted by slicer

I would do 265/35/18, 295/30/18 in R888R given the tire options you are considering

I think the Cup2 is a better street / track tire though. R888R can get very noisy

Thanks! hmm how come it seems like 285/35 is a bad size choice for 10.5" wheel? Too narrow?

According to the Apex fitment guide, it says 18x10.5" with 295 tires may requires rolling the fenders. Something I am not willing to do.

[Kelse92]

To put this to bed here’s a pic of my setup. Car is lower on Swift springs
18x9.5 et22 front. Hankook RS4 265/35/18
18x10.5 et27 rear. Hankook RS4 285/35/18 and I might have had a 10mm spacer on rear here as well but I can’t remember.
I’m a casual HPDE driver and really enjoy the setup but regret not going square due to tire wear

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I would not disable ABS. One of the best things on these cars. No downside with keeping it on.

As I said, I enjoyed the challenge, at slower speeds.

[MaximusB]

Thanks for all the inputs re: wheel size. Everyone's comment is very helpful but somehow I am now back to square one.

Just spent the last couple hours reading through a hand of threads about square vs staggered setup. Some people here prefers stagger over square. While some prefers square. Right now I am still open to either option. The goal is to get a set of dedicated track wheels in 18s. I do drive my car to and from the track, which is about 600km round trip all highway. I would prefer to swap wheels the night before instead of driving them down with me. Also I would like to have as much tire selection as possible. I am not aiming to set new track record or win anything. So I want the ability to try out different brand of wheels and etc.

Having said that, I exchanged a few emails with Apex and it doesn't seem like they recommend using 275 tire on a 10.5 wide wheel. The conclusion with Apex is if I want:
- Staggered: 18x9.5/18x10.5. Then I'll need to run 265/35 and 285/35. I have nothing against 285 tires, it is just the selection is limited in 285/35. My preference for now is to run RE 71R which don't come in 285/35. I would have bought the wheels from Apex by now if they didn't stressed on running 285/35 tires in the rear.

- square: 18x10 with 275/35/18. Again, I was ready to buy this square set up until I read several threads about square set up makes the car tramline on the street, heavier steering (may not be a bad thing) and could also make oversteer.

So now I don't know. I think I'm getting too old try to figure this out.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

Thanks for all the inputs re: wheel size. Everyone's comment is very helpful but somehow I am now back to square one.

- square: 18x10 with 275/35/18. Again, I was ready to buy this square set up until I read several threads about square set up makes the car tramline on the street, heavier steering (may not be a bad thing) and could also make oversteer.

So now I don't know. I think I'm getting too old try to figure this out.

I think you’re reading too much into it. It’s you want the 275 re71’s then buy them. Go 18x10 squared. Unless your local track is 100+ miles away you’re not gonna notice the difference that much on the street. You honestly may find it’s easier to do swaps at the track too, so play around with it.

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I think you’re reading too much into it. It’s you want the 275 re71’s then buy them. Go 18x10 squared. Unless your local track is 100+ miles away you’re not gonna notice the difference that much on the street. You honestly may find it’s easier to do swaps at the track too, so play around with it.

Yes and no. The nearest tracks to me are about 4.5 hour drive, well over 100 miles, one way. The RE71R is at top of my list based on price and performance. Costco (costco.ca) is selling them for $320cdn/tire. That is approx. $242usd/tire. But I just want to have the option run different tires as I go and not limit myself to just a couple to pick from.

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

Thanks for all the inputs re: wheel size. Everyone's comment is very helpful but somehow I am now back to square one.

Just spent the last couple hours reading through a hand of threads about square vs staggered setup. Some people here prefers stagger over square. While some prefers square. Right now I am still open to either option. The goal is to get a set of dedicated track wheels in 18s. I do drive my car to and from the track, which is about 600km round trip all highway. I would prefer to swap wheels the night before instead of driving them down with me. Also I would like to have as much tire selection as possible. I am not aiming to set new track record or win anything. So I want the ability to try out different brand of wheels and etc.

Having said that, I exchanged a few emails with Apex and it doesn't seem like they recommend using 275 tire on a 10.5 wide wheel. The conclusion with Apex is if I want:
- Staggered: 18x9.5/18x10.5. Then I'll need to run 265/35 and 285/35. I have nothing against 285 tires, it is just the selection is limited in 285/35. My preference for now is to run RE 71R which don't come in 285/35. I would have bought the wheels from Apex by now if they didn't stressed on running 285/35 tires in the rear.

- square: 18x10 with 275/35/18. Again, I was ready to buy this square set up until I read several threads about square set up makes the car tramline on the street, heavier steering (may not be a bad thing) and could also make oversteer.

So now I don't know. I think I'm getting too old try to figure this out.

Call me tomorrow and we'll chat in detail about your options. After reading your post I have a good understanding of how you plan to use the dedicated wheel and tire setup, but I'd like to hear more about your suspension setup, alignment settings, and how much track experience you have under your belt. A personal consultation is always beneficial, as we may uncover some things that you weren't thinking about, and we can take future modifications into consideration.

In short, if you are set on running RE-71Rs, the following rotatable square fitments are in play (there is no sense in running 265/275 staggered). Most track-oriented compounds are going to run wider than your average street tire, so if your suspension provides enough clearance up front and you have adjustable camber plates to dial in the appropriate amount of negative camber, I would strongly suggest going with the wider 18x10.5" wheels. They will give the 275/35-18 RE-71Rs more sidewall support in mid-corner, and allow you to explore other tire sizes down the road like 285/30-18 or 295/30-18 should your skill level warrant the increase in tire width.

Option 1
Front & Rear: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18

Option 2
Front & Rear: 18x10.5" ET22 - 275/35-18

Option 3
Front & Rear: 18x10.5" ET22 - 285/30-18

I sent you a PM with my direct #

- Ryan

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Call me tomorrow and we'll chat in detail about your options. After reading your post I have a good understanding of how you plan to use the dedicated wheel and tire setup, but I'd like to hear more about your suspension setup, alignment settings, and how much track experience you have under your belt. A personal consultation is always beneficial, as we may uncover some things that you weren't thinking about, and we can take future modifications into consideration.

In short, if you are set on running RE-71Rs, the following rotatable square fitments are in play (there is no sense in running 265/275 staggered). Most track-oriented compounds are going to run wider than your average street tire, so if your suspension provides enough clearance up front and you have adjustable camber plates to dial in the appropriate amount of negative camber, I would strongly suggest going with the wider 18x10.5" wheels. They will give the 275/35-18 RE-71Rs more sidewall support in mid-corner, and allow you to explore other tire sizes down the road like 285/30-18 or 295/30-18 should your skill level warrant the increase in tire width.

Option 1
Front & Rear: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18

Option 2
Front & Rear: 18x10.5" ET22 - 275/35-18

Option 3
Front & Rear: 18x10.5" ET22 - 285/30-18

I sent you a PM with my direct #

- Ryan

Amazing. We’ll talk more tomorrow. Thanks!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

I was leaning towards a square setup. But after reading a few threads about square vs staggered it seems like the only real advantage of square is just the ability to rotate 4 tires around.

I am not set on either or, so I'm open to suggestion. Convince me one way or another.



Thanks! hmm how come it seems like 285/35 is a bad size choice for 10.5" wheel? Too narrow?

According to the Apex fitment guide, it says 18x10.5" with 295 tires may requires rolling the fenders. Something I am not willing to do.

The 285/30 re71 is a great option.

Please forget about the r888r, it is fucking shit. I threw my 275/295 set away after a single track event. I couldn't even bring myself to sell them.
Every other option is better, direzza iii, rs4, rival s, etc

10.5 et27 fits front and rear without rolling anything. -2 degrees of camber and it fits fine.


In the e9x you can fit 10.5 up front easily so there's no point in running staggered. And you can use the same offset front and rear which is hugely beneficial.
I've been running square 10.5 for years, no issues. I have no idea why people recommend 10 square, 10.5 fits just as happily.

275/35 on the 10.5 fits great. It is slightly stretched and you get some free additional width out of the tires by running the wider wheel. The math is you get around half an inch of free tire width out of every inch of extra wheel width, so by running a 275/35 on a 10.5 you get an extra 1/4in of free width

285/30 also fits very well

295 already starts looking pinched. I run either 275 or 285 square and all is good with the world



I have like 8 sets of track wheels. In my opinion you have to think long and hard about which tire you want to run and decide based on that.
On the E9X I'm all set, all the sets are 10.5 square with either 275 or 285 square tires
On the F8X I've been suffering because a 11 fits in the rear but not the front, so either you get a 10.5 front and an 11 rear or you get 10.5 squared.
The thing is the only tires i like running, the re71 and the r1, only come in 285/30 before going to like 315 which is useless. So that 11 rear will only get me some free width out of the 285 but that isn't worth not being able to rotate. So, i settle on 10.5 square. But then the same offset requires a 20mm spacer up front so that i can rotate wheels... so now i have to buy 3 sets of wheels for it as i don't want to install and reinstall spacers all the time.

For the record, i don't rotate wheels obsessively at all, but front wheels wear differently than rears so you do get some more life out of them. However the biggest advantage i see is only stocking one tire width and swapping all at the same time so you know when you're running on new tires. If you cannot rotate it is likely you'll end up running new fronts with old rears, etc. Pretty messy thing to do

[dparm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Please forget about the r888r, it is fucking shit. I threw my 275/295 set away after a single track event. I couldn't even bring myself to sell them.

Smart man.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've been running square 10.5 for years, no issues. I have no idea why people recommend 10 square, 10.5 fits just as happily.

Wished I had done this from the get go. Replacing multiple sets of 10's wasn't fun

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Wished I had done this from the get go. Replacing multiple sets of 10's wasn't fun

Don't you hate your former self sometimes? I'm also wishing I had just swapped the front KW CS springs for shorter ones when I installed them. I was like "oh 275 will be fine for me for a while."...Wrong

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Wished I had done this from the get go. Replacing multiple sets of 10's wasn't fun

Tell me about it...

That's why I'm hesitant to get the 3 sets I need for the F80... the conventional wisdom is just wrong.

Then again I also learned the hard way about wheel brands and ended up replacing various sets with BW TEALs which make me feel warm and fuzzy

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've been running square 10.5 for years, no issues. I have no idea why people recommend 10 square, 10.5 fits just as happily.

I think it’s because no where in the “here’s what you should do” threads is anything else really discussed, 18x10 is always referenced as the go-to option.
I think it also can be attributed to the length of time these cars have been around. Lots of new/different options today when it comes to wheels, tires, etc out there but the info that’s easy to find via any stickied thread is a few years dated. To find more creative setups takes some digging.

I’m thankful that I bought 18x9.5/10.5 staggered now cause it’s not going to hurt nearly as bad on the bank account if/when I decide to go square. Haha

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I think it’s because no where in the “here’s what you should do” threads is anything else really discussed, 18x10 is always referenced as the go-to option.
I think it also can be attributed to the length of time these cars have been around. Lots of new/different options today when it comes to wheels, tires, etc out there but the info that’s easy to find via any stickied thread is a few years dated. To find more creative setups takes some digging.

I’m thankful that I bought 18x9.5/10.5 staggered now cause it’s not going to hurt nearly as bad on the bank account if/when I decide to go square. Haha

One of the street setups is 9.5 front and 10.5 rear, the bbs fi's. Great sizing for a nice street setup

By the way, sometimes i run out of wheels and as a backup have the ZCP wheels which are 9 front and 10 rear. I have 255/275 re71r tires mounted. Even though they are not the ideal width they are still very fast.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Don't you hate your former self sometimes? I'm also wishing I had just swapped the front KW CS springs for shorter ones when I installed them. I was like "oh 275 will be fine for me for a while."...Wrong

Ha yeah - I really try to block all those great financial decisions out of my head. Funny that there appears to be a pattern with me and cars...

"oh 275 will be fine for me for awhile" sounds very familiar...

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Tell me about it...

That's why I'm hesitant to get the 3 sets I need for the F80... the conventional wisdom is just wrong.

Then again I also learned the hard way about wheel brands and ended up replacing various sets with BW TEALs which make me feel warm and fuzzy

I know that hesitation well - did the same thing before jumping into 10.5's. Sad thing is I haven't even been able to run them yet & I'm already second guessing not going as wide as possible in the rear I really need to get my car finished so I quit buying crap for it. It's a trap, it's all a freaking trap.

On an F80 I'd really have a hard time deciding between square & staggered. You guys and all that awesome torque think you're so cool

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I think it’s because no where in the “here’s what you should do” threads is anything else really discussed, 18x10 is always referenced as the go-to option.

It definitely seems to be the most common size thrown around. As a newb coming into this a year ago that really seems to be the starting off point. That and working up to NT01's in 275. For me they served their purpose well, just thought I'd get a little more of my money out of them. Anything else bigger seemed to me like it was for the hardcore group. Oh well, you live you learn I guess - but I still wish I would have gone straight to at least 10.5s...

[kyippee]

Wait so NT01 in 275/35/18 and 18x10 ET25 isn't an optimal point? Teach me more

future experiments for me are Nankang AR-1 in 265 or 275 /35/18, still on 18x10 ET25

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Wait so NT01 in 275/35/18 and 18x10 ET25 isn't an optimal point? Teach me more

future experiments for me are Nankang AR-1 in 265 or 275 /35/18, still on 18x10 ET25

While not all drivers will be able to notice/leverage the difference in width between the two, yes, the 10.5" wheel will support a wider 275/35-18 compound like the NT01 better than a 10" wheel.

There are many contributing factors to consider like sidewall construction, personal preferences, class rules (if applicable), etc., but at a high level I generally recommend going with a wheel width on the wider end of a given tire manufacturer recommended spectrum. It typically results in better steering response/handling characteristics as well as more consistent tire wear (which we all know is also heavily dependent on the right alignment settings).

As long as you have a 10.5" wheel with the right offset, compliant suspension, and adjustable camber plates, the 18x10.5" square fitment is the clear winner. As a side note, with some 275/35-18 tires, adjustable camber plate may not be an absolute requirement. Pulling the camber pins and maxing things out may net you enough to skirt by. With that said, if you are the type of enthusiast to run a 10.5" square fitment over a 10" in the name of marginal performance gains, you should absolutely be running adjustable camber plates

As described in my previous response above, the 10.5" wheels will not only provide better sidewall support for wider 275's, they also give you the ability to upgrade to wider compounds like 285/30-18, 285/35-18 or 295/30-18 down the road should your driving abilities warrant it. It is a better long term play.

OEM suspension, and aftermarket coilovers like JRZ, MCS, and many others work well as long as the lower spring perch is in the right location. Coilovers known for robbing inner clearance like KW, Ohlins, etc. will need modification (removal of helper spring and a new shorter main spring) to work.

I have a couple of different wheel and tire configurations, but I run a square set of 18x10.5" ET22 with 275/35-18 NT01's myself

- Ryan

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Wait so NT01 in 275/35/18 and 18x10 ET25 isn't an optimal point? Teach me more

future experiments for me are Nankang AR-1 in 265 or 275 /35/18, still on 18x10 ET25

If that was directed to me I think my wording was a bit unclear there - I think the 275 NT01 on that 10” is a pretty good combo. Very good wear with decent grip all the way through - at not too bad a price. 10 vs 10.5 for 275 I’ll leave to the experts.

What I meant was I thought once I got to that setup I would be there awhile. My move to wider wheels and tires came pretty quickly afterwards though. Didn’t get the value out of the 10s in that I didn’t use them near as long as I figured. And also looking back I could have run every tire & size I’ve progressed through on a 10.5” wheel - and still be using them today with the wider tires.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

I know that hesitation well - did the same thing before jumping into 10.5's. Sad thing is I haven't even been able to run them yet & I'm already second guessing not going as wide as possible in the rear I really need to get my car finished so I quit buying crap for it. It's a trap, it's all a freaking trap.

On an F80 I'd really have a hard time deciding between square & staggered. You guys and all that awesome torque think you're so cool

The E9X has such a perfectly flat torque delivery that it has great traction. I wouldn't run an 11" in the rear at all. It's possible the 500whp E90 stroker may change my mind but I really doubt it.

The F80 is a real problem in terms of tires. Apparently 11" et44 square 'can' fit with a 25mm front spacer. That's what I'd like to run but I have too many questions about that actually fitting and don't want to buy wheels and then not know what to do with them. I could buy 4 11 et44 and see if they fit in the front, if not I could build two sets that would be staggered but rather not.
Then again the widest R1 is 285/30, so why go through all this effort to run 11"s square?