Blackstone Labs Oil Analysis

ktagz · 03-07-2019, 06:38 PM

Hi everyone,

I just had a Blackstone Labs oil analysis and TBN report done on my 2010 M3 Cabriolet that has 80,865 kilometers on it.

The oil sample sent in was used for 5,738 kilometers (Red Line 10W60).

I was hoping for some advice on the results from people on the forum. I was mostly concerned about the copper/lead levels as I was reading through other posts and I noticed this may have to do with bearings? Would the copper be elevated in this case or can it be something else?

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10 M3-190302.pdf

Thanks!

Solo_M_Tech · 03-07-2019, 09:33 PM

Lead count is high vs others I've seen posted, but your results are pointless until the next sample. You have nothing to compare too since you only have one sample. It's just not enough to form a pattern at which you can draw conclusions from.

If you're worried about bearing wear, just get them changed.

cjm41 · 03-07-2019, 09:44 PM

You have nothing to compare it to.

2010s don't have RBs with copper in them. Guessing the test has a margin of error of at least "5"

RBs are a change em or don't type scenario. If you're not the original owner and don't have readings from every oil change, you've go no clue what the reading could have been in every oil change before. There's no way to tell what's already worn.

Generally speaking copper is an indicator of wear because copper was not the outer layer. If you have an 08 or 09 or aftermarket bearings copper is a good indicator that the bearings have worn through the outer layer. Don't be sad, if you had an 08 or 09 you'd have an ugly ass i-drive knob

CarPoor · 03-07-2019, 10:43 PM

He does have the copper/lead bearings. Aluminum/Tin didn’t come around until sometime into 2011.

As stated though you have nothing to compare to. There’s not much history or detail of use. On the surface your lead and copper are highish. Hard to say what’s behind the next door, but if you love the car probably best to consider reputabley replacing the RB’s.

cjm41 · 03-07-2019, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarPoor

He does have the copper/lead bearings. Aluminum/Tin didn't come around until sometime into 2011.

As stated though you have nothing to compare to. There's not much history or detail of use. On the surface your lead and copper are highish. Hard to say what's behind the next door, but if you love the car probably best to consider reputabley replacing the RB's.

Weird. OG bearings came out of my 2010 yesterday, sitting on my counter right now. No visible signs of copper, although they are worn... maybe not enough.

amrazM · 03-08-2019, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm41

Weird. OG bearings came out of my 2010 yesterday, sitting on my counter right now. No visible signs of copper, although they are worn... maybe not enough.

The changeover from 088/089 bearings came sometime through the 2010 YEAR, the change to 702/703 was a tin metal bearing.

Early bearing wear is hard to pick up on a Blackstone with 702/703 bearings, personally my car had similar numbers and my bearings were quite worn.

I’d change them.

CSBM5 · 03-08-2019, 07:12 AM

I've always thought the bearing changeover occurred with 03/2010 production which was the start of the 2011 model year in North America (and hence the reason we see 2011.5, 09/2010 SOP; and 2011.75 03/2011 SOP). Blackstone categorizes the S65 cars into two groups, and this one is shown in the early group which appears correct given the lead levels. Mine is in the "BMW 4.0L (S65B40) V-8 2011-2013" group, and the universal lead average is 0 for that group. All my oil analysis reports have come back with 0 lead levels.

anerbe · 03-08-2019, 10:51 AM

values look elevated, but overall it's a difficult judgement considering you don't have trending to evaluate.

Unless you want to spend the money and be proactive (I would change them personally if I just bought the vehicle), your other option is to take it easy, drive another 5000KM and do another sample.

However, as it starts to warm up, maybe you'll see different values next sample, with less "severe" cold starts.

At the end of the day, it's all up to you to decide if you want to pay for "insurance" thru RB replacement. If I were you, after this report, I would change them.

anerbe · 03-08-2019, 10:58 AM

Reference my post - your readings look similar to my first oil sample, before my bearing spun...

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=967

wfdeacon88 · 03-08-2019, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anerbe

Reference my post - your readings look similar to my first oil sample, before my bearing spun...

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=967

RIP

Siajoon · 03-08-2019, 12:22 PM

These continuous posts about RB is a serious case of dejavu for me..

It won't go away.

The horse has now been beaten into a purée. Congratulations

byroncheung · 03-08-2019, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarPoor

He does have the copper/lead bearings. Aluminum/Tin didn’t come around until sometime into 2011.

As stated though you have nothing to compare to. There’s not much history or detail of use. On the surface your lead and copper are highish. Hard to say what’s behind the next door, but if you love the car probably best to consider reputabley replacing the RB’s.

i wonder what's the standard deviation for the lead measurement.
i asked black stone for a spreadsheet of standard deviations of different metal so i have something to compare to when i had my 1st analysis done. but my car is 2011 with different bearings so it's not relevant here, otherwise i'd share that file. maybe you can ask BS for the same for your engine, doesn't hurt to have the extra info...

cjm41 · 03-08-2019, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siajoon

These continuous posts about RB is a serious case of dejavu for me..

It won't go away.

The horse has now been beaten into a purée. Congratulations

I did my rod bearings just this week so it's done for me... now to find a way to filter all rod bearing related posts from the forum, forever.

byroncheung · 03-08-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm41

I did my rod bearings just this week so it's done for me... now to find a way to filter all rod bearing related posts from the forum, forever.

i would still subscribe to them so i get to see the pics when ppl open up to check the BE bearings after significant mileages...

cjm41 · 03-08-2019, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byroncheung

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm41

I did my rod bearings just this week so it's done for me... now to find a way to filter all rod bearing related posts from the forum, forever.

i would still subscribe to them so i get to see the pics when ppl open up to check the BE bearings after significant mileages...

Yeah. I'm pretty sure I'll still be on the forums 12 times a day talking about rod bearings. I've yet to post my "I did my rod bearings" post, so that's coming still

There's an urban legend that if an M3 owner goes a full week without discussing rod bearings, they'll die. It's basically a required sustenance for our species.

Assimilator1 · 01-25-2020, 08:25 AM

Lol

I wonder if the op went for new big end bearings? (stop calling them rod bearings!

, that's both ends).

Btw, to the op, I've recently been looking at dozens of oil reports for these engines, although I have occasionally found oil reports where they've been 10-20 for lead on one report & then dropped back later, I've also found some where the engine has then gone onto fail, or people changed the bearings & found them significantly worn.
Personally I think the max lead level should be considered at about 10ppm! Regardless of whether the oil labs says it's ok or not, even that's no guarantee you can use oil reports to find failing bearings in time. See these accounts/reports :-

delirium330 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1300528 - CU/Pb at 1 & 2, yet 1 bearing to copper!! Oil life 3092 miles. Bearings changed just ~1500 miles after report.

IIAp3x - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=11 (no photos, but states that engine blew up 1k after report!). His thread - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1119912

I'll be posting a thread soon with a collection of thread links to oil reports along with (mostly) photos of bearings.

Bubbles · 01-26-2020, 09:10 PM

05/2010 was the last 2011 production month for the lead bearings.

amrazM · 01-27-2020, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbles

05/2010 was the last 2011 production month for the lead bearings.

05/10 is a 2010MY, 06/10 is a 2011MY.

CSBM5 · 01-27-2020, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amrazM

05/10 is a 2010MY, 06/10 is a 2011MY.

USA 2011 model year started with 03/2010 production from what I recall. I had a friend order and get one of the first ZCP M3s at the time.

Bubbles · 01-27-2020, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amrazM

05/10 is a 2010MY, 06/10 is a 2011MY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSBM5

USA 2011 model year started with 03/2010 production from what I recall. I had a friend order and get one of the first ZCP M3s at the time.

4/10 for US is a 2011 model year car. 2011 MY production lasted nearly two years. I picked up a 2011 ZCP for EU delivery.

GORDON.M3 · 01-28-2020, 02:14 AM

I had 21PPM of lead in my oil at 50,000km, changed the rod bearings and it dropped to 0. Don't be afraid. Just do the rod bearings and get it done with.

Assimilator1 · 01-28-2020, 01:09 PM

Did you post photos of your bearings & the previous oil report?

03-07-2019, 06:38 PM	#1
ktagz New Member 7 Rep 13 Posts Drives: 2010 BMW M3 Cabriolet Join Date: May 2017 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	Blackstone Labs Oil Analysis - advice on results Hi everyone, I just had a Blackstone Labs oil analysis and TBN report done on my 2010 M3 Cabriolet that has 80,865 kilometers on it. The oil sample sent in was used for 5,738 kilometers (Red Line 10W60). I was hoping for some advice on the results from people on the forum. I was mostly concerned about the copper/lead levels as I was reading through other posts and I noticed this may have to do with bearings? Would the copper be elevated in this case or can it be something else? 10 M3-190302.pdf Thanks!
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03-07-2019, 09:33 PM	#2
Solo_M_Tech Brigadier General 1688 Rep 3,140 Posts Drives: 2014 M5 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (7) Garage List 2014 BMW M5 [0.00]	Lead count is high vs others I've seen posted, but your results are pointless until the next sample. You have nothing to compare too since you only have one sample. It's just not enough to form a pattern at which you can draw conclusions from. If you're worried about bearing wear, just get them changed. __________________ 2014 M5 6MT
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03-07-2019, 09:44 PM	#3
cjm41 Lieutenant 753 Rep 498 Posts Drives: 2010 E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Southern California iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW M3 [0.00] 2014 Land Rover LR4 [0.00]	You have nothing to compare it to. 2010s don't have RBs with copper in them. Guessing the test has a margin of error of at least "5" RBs are a change em or don't type scenario. If you're not the original owner and don't have readings from every oil change, you've go no clue what the reading could have been in every oil change before. There's no way to tell what's already worn. Generally speaking copper is an indicator of wear because copper was not the outer layer. If you have an 08 or 09 or aftermarket bearings copper is a good indicator that the bearings have worn through the outer layer. Don't be sad, if you had an 08 or 09 you'd have an ugly ass i-drive knob __________________ 2010 E92 M3 // IG: @commuter_blue
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03-07-2019, 10:43 PM	#4
CarPoor Discharged 140 Rep 160 Posts Drives: G42 M240ix, JLU Rub, 10 S2 RX8 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	He does have the copper/lead bearings. Aluminum/Tin didn’t come around until sometime into 2011. As stated though you have nothing to compare to. There’s not much history or detail of use. On the surface your lead and copper are highish. Hard to say what’s behind the next door, but if you love the car probably best to consider reputabley replacing the RB’s.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-08-2019, 07:12 AM	#7
CSBM5 Brigadier General 2721 Rep 3,336 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Comp, 2011 M3, etc Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Greenville, SC iTrader: (2)	I've always thought the bearing changeover occurred with 03/2010 production which was the start of the 2011 model year in North America (and hence the reason we see 2011.5, 09/2010 SOP; and 2011.75 03/2011 SOP). Blackstone categorizes the S65 cars into two groups, and this one is shown in the early group which appears correct given the lead levels. Mine is in the "BMW 4.0L (S65B40) V-8 2011-2013" group, and the universal lead average is 0 for that group. All my oil analysis reports have come back with 0 lead levels. __________________ Current Stable: 2024 G20 M340i Melbourne Red/Cognac 2019 F87 M2 Competition 6MT, LBB, slicktop, exec pkg 2007 E91 328i Silver, slushbox, Eibach fr/E93 M3 rear sway bars, ARC-8
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03-08-2019, 10:51 AM	#8
anerbe Lieutenant Colonel 121 Rep 1,568 Posts Drives: Red E90M 6MT Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: BH, MI iTrader: (2)	values look elevated, but overall it's a difficult judgement considering you don't have trending to evaluate. Unless you want to spend the money and be proactive (I would change them personally if I just bought the vehicle), your other option is to take it easy, drive another 5000KM and do another sample. However, as it starts to warm up, maybe you'll see different values next sample, with less "severe" cold starts. At the end of the day, it's all up to you to decide if you want to pay for "insurance" thru RB replacement. If I were you, after this report, I would change them.
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03-08-2019, 10:58 AM	#9
anerbe Lieutenant Colonel 121 Rep 1,568 Posts Drives: Red E90M 6MT Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: BH, MI iTrader: (2)	Reference my post - your readings look similar to my first oil sample, before my bearing spun... https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=967
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03-08-2019, 12:22 PM	#11
Siajoon ///Majestic 1860 Rep 2,092 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 ///M3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (1)	These continuous posts about RB is a serious case of dejavu for me.. It won't go away. The horse has now been beaten into a purée. Congratulations
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-25-2020, 08:25 AM	#16
Assimilator1 Major 593 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Lol I wonder if the op went for new big end bearings? (stop calling them rod bearings! , that's both ends). Btw, to the op, I've recently been looking at dozens of oil reports for these engines, although I have occasionally found oil reports where they've been 10-20 for lead on one report & then dropped back later, I've also found some where the engine has then gone onto fail, or people changed the bearings & found them significantly worn. Personally I think the max lead level should be considered at about 10ppm! Regardless of whether the oil labs says it's ok or not, even that's no guarantee you can use oil reports to find failing bearings in time. See these accounts/reports :- delirium330 - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1300528 - CU/Pb at 1 & 2, yet 1 bearing to copper!! Oil life 3092 miles. Bearings changed just ~1500 miles after report. IIAp3x - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=11 (no photos, but states that engine blew up 1k after report!). His thread - https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1119912 I'll be posting a thread soon with a collection of thread links to oil reports along with (mostly) photos of bearings.
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01-26-2020, 09:10 PM	#17
Bubbles Brigadier General 2753 Rep 4,445 Posts Drives: Green Bastard Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bishop Bend iTrader: (3)	05/2010 was the last 2011 production month for the lead bearings. __________________
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01-28-2020, 02:14 AM	#21
GORDON.M3 Brigadier General 1423 Rep 3,001 Posts Drives: E92 M3 • F25 X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: LAX/YYZ/NRT iTrader: (11)	I had 21PPM of lead in my oil at 50,000km, changed the rod bearings and it dropped to 0. Don't be afraid. Just do the rod bearings and get it done with. __________________ INSTAGRAM: GORDON.M3 North American Mr12Volt Carplay/Android Auto Distributor DINAN \| EVOSPORT \| VAC \| ARP \| RD SPORT \| NEEZ \| EIBACH \| CSF \| IND \| BILSTEIN \| KLASSEN \| BREMBO \| ENDLESS \| BBS \| BPM SPORT \| PROJECT MU \| EVENTURI
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01-28-2020, 01:09 PM	#22
Assimilator1 Major 593 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Did you post photos of your bearings & the previous oil report?
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