M-DCT driving videos

[Flying_Dutchman]

Thanks for sharing.

Just 13 weeks of waiting left as far as I'm concerned ...

[footie]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You are funny. Do these videos really give you any insight whatsoever into how fast or smooth the tranny is? I enjoyed them immensely as well but they don't really tell me much other than the shifts are quicker than me rowing a MT.

swamp,

Man stop reading into things, impressed means that they shifts seem to be smooth (at least up to S5) because there seemed to be little jerk from the camera which was I believe being held by hand and this wouldn't have been the case with a manual or SMG. I made no comment about shift speed because knowing DSG there is no need to question that.

You must be a hard man to impress. I take it you have a pee with your eyes close so not to be disappointed with your wee man.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by swamp2

What specifically "sold" you in the videos? I am really curious. I completely fail to see how these videos offer enough evidence for someone who was undecided to now fully commit to M-DCT. Granted the videos are very cool. Mostly IMHO just because it is much closer to the driving experience than reading about it and doing simulations. Reading and simulations may be boring to many, but they really tell us way more about transmission than these videos. Could it be just the "a picture is worth 1000 words" phenomena?

Specifically, long before these vids we knew:

M-DCT would shift very fast
M-DCT will rev match on downshift
M-DCT will have paddles and and an automatic mode
etc., etc., etc.

Swamp my delight is the speed of the shift. I was blown away at how fast. Its like twice as fast as the manual shifts at its fastest. That's what I hold very important. It also looks smooth and almost seamless.

As for the feel we can only experience that.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by footie

swamp,


You must be a hard man to impress. I take it you have a pee with your eyes close so not to be disappointed with your wee man.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by footie

swamp,

Man stop reading into things, impressed means that they shifts seem to be smooth (at least up to S5) because there seemed to be little jerk from the camera which was I believe being held by hand and this wouldn't have been the case with a manual or SMG. I made no comment about shift speed because knowing DSG there is no need to question that.

You must be a hard man to impress. I take it you have a pee with your eyes close so not to be disappointed with your wee man.

You and T-Bone can feel free to make all of the sophmoric phalllic jokes you like but keep me out of it thanks.

[bobr2001]

well, M-DCT will be in my order for sure. Thanks SMSgtB

[par4bmw]

Man, can not believe it took me this long to see the thread. Thanks for taking the time to make the vid! It is great to see. Look forward to hearing/seeing after break in.

[SMSgt B]

Originally Posted by AZ-BMW

In the last video, what is the green light on the dash (upper right of speedo, left of Tach)?

That is the headlight indicator

[SMSgt B]

Originally Posted by footie

Thanks mate, well now I am officially impressed, it seems from the video at least that BMW have pretty smooth shifts up to S-5.

Please can you confirm that these shift we are witnessing are a smooth as we believe. It does look to me that the technology is safe in BMW's hand.

SMSgt,

I forgot to ask if you had previous experience with SMG and if so how does it compare.

Shifts at least to 5500rpms are really smooth, they better be since the tranny has already pre-selected and engaged-ready for the next gear.

I had SMGII in my 04 M3 and this is like comparing a 335 to an M3. M-DCT is in a league by itself ... especially compared to SMG. There is no "Jerk" (God I hated that in SMG), lightning shifting and just continuous acceleration. Did I say smooth, smooth, smooth.

[KINGLEH]

i wish i could have both.. and choose each day... 6 speed or dct....


but thats like a 65k option....

[Romo]

Up shifting ( while accelerating) it is understandeble, since next gear is already preselected. But...................what happens when the system expects up shifting and you go for a down shifting?
Does it take more time? Off course there is no preselected gear in this case.

[M3NTAL]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You are funny. Do these videos really give you any insight whatsoever into how fast or smooth the tranny is? I enjoyed them immensely as well but they don't really tell me much other than the shifts are quicker than me rowing a MT.

You're the one who's funny.

You just contradicted yourself in the same post.

They don't "give any insight on how fast the tranny is", but yet you can "tell that they are quicker than a MT"

Originally Posted by swamp2

All looks smooth, fast and seamless but it is very tough to really apprecaite the performance (not realistic sound, no feeling of the accelertaion/jerk, shifting at modest rpms, etc.).

Again you say they look fast, but then you say that the videos don't "give any insight as to how fast the tranny is"

What do you really think? Or wait... Do you even know what you really think?

Maybe if you read his thread about receiving the car, and what he just said, you would realize that there is no "jerk". You need to drop that. It was a mistake that came from a poorly translated German review.

The only thing left to be seen and felt by SMSgt B is the ferocity of the shifts in S6 as well as the LC feature. Which myself, am eagerly awaiting.

[Deathboy]

Nice videos makes me regret getting 6MT

[footie]

Originally Posted by SMSgt B

Shifts at least to 5500rpms are really smooth, they better be since the tranny has already pre-selected and engaged-ready for the next gear.

I had SMGII in my 04 M3 and this is like comparing a 335 to an M3. M-DCT is in a league by itself ... especially compared to SMG. There is no "Jerk" (God I hated that in SMG), lightning shifting and just continuous acceleration. Did I say smooth, smooth, smooth.

Sounds like they are at least offering something very similar to Audi's S/Tronic on the auto modes and the manual modes up to s5, which is a wise decision in my opinion and I already knew that the shifts themselves would have been lightening fast, after all it is the breed of the thing.

Can I ask, does the box in your opinion do you feel the gearbox picks the right gear depending on driving style, this was something I found the DSG in the Golf to be well judged it and one of the reasons why I used auto mode so much. Also what did you notice about the differing modes d1 ~ d5 and s1 ~s5 was there much of a difference and if so what were they, did you sample s6 and was it much different to the others.

Sorry for all the questions but I am interested to see how it compares to that other great dual clutch gearbox, the DSG.

P.S.
You comparsion between 335i and M3 sounds about right when comparing SMG with DCT, it is a world away from that crude offering.

[footie]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You and T-Bone can feel free to make all of the sophmoric phalllic jokes you like but keep me out of it thanks.

Sorry mate, that will be the last joke aimed at you from me.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

You're the one who's funny.

You just contradicted yourself in the same post.

...

Maybe if you read his thread about receiving the car, and what he just said, you would realize that there is no "jerk". You need to drop that. It was a mistake that came from a poorly translated German review.

The only thing left to be seen and felt by SMSgt B is the ferocity of the shifts in S6 as well as the LC feature. Which myself, am eagerly awaiting.

As far as I can tell this was a specific reply to footie. Thanks for butting in.

Anyway, at taken 100% literally there is a contradiction in my words. Let me explain. I can tell enough from the videos that the shifts are quite a bit faster than a MT. However, when it comes to SMG/DSG/DCT the devil is in the details as to how fast the units actually are. 150 ms, 100 ms, 30 ms. These differences do not mean much in actual performance but it is quite interesting to know the specifics as the numbers represent great engineering achivements. So QUALITATIVLEY yes we can see they are fast, BUT QUANTITATIVELY, which is what really matters, we do not learn ANYTHING from the videos.

On the somewhat related topic of jerk. I am willing to place a large wager that there is a noticeable jerk to the shifting, much more likely noticeable in higer S modes and at higher rpms. I read everything Sgt had to say about his car, perhaps you should read the official BMW document (about 20 pages) about the M-DCT and the "surge" they refer to constantly. Will it be as severe as SMG or MT, not but it will be there and it will be measureable with an acclerometer (or butt-accelerometer as well). Care to place and bets?

Anyway +1 on S6 and LC - we are all waiting!

[MDCTFTW]

I just hope it's like NOS in Fast & Furious.

[M3NTAL]

Originally Posted by swamp2

As far as I can tell this was a specific reply to footie. Thanks for butting in.

Unless you want to start your own thread purely devoted to footie and yourself, to which no one can reply but the said two, you openly stated something in a thread to which others can also object to, or agree with. So no matter who you originally replied to or not, it can still be talked about by other members so that they can point out faults or agree with the reasoning you presented in your post(s).


Actually, I have read the document. I have also driven many exotic cars including a Bugatti Veyron, and it has a dct-type transmission. While under full throttle in the Veyron, shifts happen so quickly that it really is just a constant surge, a surge which I might add is so breathtaking that it sends chills to my spine whenever I think about it.

Current and recent Ferrari F1 transmissions also sort of support my hypothesis. While the 360 Stradale F1 transmission was harsh, the new F1 Superfast II gearbox that is in the F430 Scuderia is not... Why? Because the shift time has been lowered, from 150milleseconds to 60ms.

The point I'm trying to make is that the shift times, and the way a DCT shifts, it makes changes so fast that they are almost imperceptible to us. Instead of a jerk, all you feel is a surge, then a different surge that comes from the differing torque of the rpm range it dropped into.

[M3NTAL]

Originally Posted by MDCTFTW

I just hope it's like NOS in Fast & Furious.

Everything gets blurry, colors start fading, you pass Vin Diesel in an Rx-7...

But hopefully the floor won't fall off, it's a BMW, so it probably won't.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

Instead of a jerk, all you feel is a surge, then a different surge that comes from the differing torque of the rpm range it dropped into.

This is what a lot of people will have to get used to cause this is the future. No jerkiness just consistent pull.

In the future the shift times will only get shorter.

[footie]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

Unless you want to start your own thread purely devoted to footie and yourself, to which no one can reply but the said two, you openly stated something in a thread to which others can also object to, or agree with. So no matter who you originally replied to or not, it can still be talked about by other members so that they can point out faults or agree with the reasoning you presented in your post(s).

Please don't include me in any statement that I want things solely between myself and swamp, I think everyone has an opinion and value each and every one of them. Your comments on the Veyron and enlightening to most, because they are identical to the ones of someone I know who also has driven one. The very fact that SMSgt B has driven the car and found no noticeable jerking in the shift leads me to also believe that this surge they (BMW) are talking about has been taken out of contexts. If swamp wants to dismiss someones opinions who has actually sampled the thing then that up to him.

This is what a lot of people will have to get used to cause this is the future. No jerkiness just consistent pull.

To be totally honest, it's not only the future, it's also safer. One should never jerk while driving.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

The point I'm trying to make is that the shift times, and the way a DCT shifts, it makes changes so fast that they are almost imperceptible to us. Instead of a jerk, all you feel is a surge, then a different surge that comes from the differing torque of the rpm range it dropped into.

Look I am all for open discussion, but sometimes certain discussions and specific comments and acusations are very much directed right at one and only one person. In this case I simply observed and did not appreciate your butting in on a comment made directly to someone else.

Well I almost agree with this. I used to think that shorter and shorter shift times meant no jerk by definition but that is totally incorrect thinking. The transmission can smooth out the jerk on purpose or not. We should also be clear on what jerk is. Jerk and surge are IMO equivalent terms. However, the more precise term is actually the time derivative of acceleration. Also to be absolutely clear jerk/surge is not equivalent to a HIGH jerk or surge, typical of something like SMG II or SMG III in S6. When you change the torque by changing the rpm it will almost universally go up. With a very fast shift you then do not feel the deceleration as it is nearly non-existent. You do however feel this "surge" as BMW like to call it, or a positive change in acceleration. This is from both the higher torque=higher acceleration as well as from flywheel and engine angular momentum.

Do you still want to bet on S6 having a noticeable jerk at higher rpm shifts?

Last but not least driving one dual clutch system is absolutely not equivalent to driving them all. That comment applies to both you and footie.