Track forum general chit chat.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

Ummm...yeah. Over here. My tire question

Raises hand in the back

I'm not sure I follow...

[M3MPH1S]

He had a question about a tire that got drowned out by the drama

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...postcount=5892

Question for everyone. I have a Hoosier R7 that is slightly corded on the outer shoulder. Can I remount the tire and run the cording on the inside shoulder to get some more life out of it? It's only one tire and I was hoping to be able to get some more life out of it.

[roastbeef]

Oh lol

I'd retire a corded tire.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

He had a question about a tire that got drowned out by the drama

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...postcount=5892

Retire it

[NoCarrier]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

maybe i'm missing something, but i think ricardo did express concern for his passenger. then there was commentary on his accident, insurance, and barely touched on what was next. he admitted fault and acknowledged his mistake.
i'm not sure what else he could do at this point.

Yeah, that's a fair assessment now that I'm re-reading his posts. It felt pretty flippant at the time of my first reading, and clearly I'm not the only one it rubbed the wrong way.

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

Ummm...yeah. Over here. My tire question

Raises hand in the back

I've flipped tires in order to finish out the day, but if you're back home with a corded tire it's time to ditch it. Sort out your camber situation if you're trashing tires prematurely.

[DreamTime]

Omg, I've been so busy I have not had a chance to read everything that has revolved around these posts about this incident at an HPDE. First off, Ricardo, I'm truly glad you are okay. My heart goes out to your instructor. I hope he is not negatively impacted in a permanent way.

As a novice moving towards intermediate run groups, I just want to say a few things that this incident has made me reflect on.

1. Last year was my first year driving any car at the track. I showed up with a high horsepower E90 M3, which, depending on who you talk to, is not the best car for a beginner. I love this car though, and I do not push it, or myself, beyond its capabilities. I listen intensely to my instructors 100% of the time. I have a certain type of love and respect for anyone who teaches me in life, and this is especially true for someone who is essentially risking their lives to instruct me.

2. I have received and taken to heart some absolutely priceless advice from some amazing and memorable people since beginning this hobby. My favorite pieces of advice for beginners (or anyone who is in a position where much learning is still necessary):

A.) Keep your car stock for the first year. Which I pretty much did. All 8 of my track days last year were with an almost completely stock car (I lowered the car with H&R sport springs & got wheels for aesthetic reasons, upgraded to Motul RBF600 fluid & PFC high performance street pads in front, and did the OEM exhaust mod bc I like loud exhaust) on the stock Michelin PSS tires. I have since changed tires to RE71Rs (which I plan to stick with for a long while), adjusted my camber, and upgraded my brake pads all around. I still have no plans to modify for added hp, most of my near future mods, that are not cosmetic in nature, will focus on safety as I increase my speeds on the track.

B.) Focus on being smooth, with your throttle inputs and braking, with steering, with how you drive the line - speed will come later. I am usually one of the slower people on the course the first day of a track weekend. I have even had friends make fun of me (jokingly of course) about me pointing by waayyyyy slower cars all throughout the first day at a track, but I don't care. I am great at giving point bys all day long on my first day. Once I am comfortable with the track, with the line, and with the corners, I bump it up on the second day. But, I never sacrifice smoothness for speed. Not yet, not at my skill level.

C.) The only prize at an HPDE is driving your car home at the end of the weekend. This matters to me so very much. It helps me to keep a good perspective on how I am handling myself on the track.

D.) One piece of advice I bucked? Turn off DSC. I have had people tell me this was necessary during my first year so that I did not pick up bad driving habits. I understand the concept, fully. But - I did not feel comfortable turning DSC fully off throughout my entire first year (I always put it in "sport" mode I think it's called), and even at my first track event this year at WGI. I remember one very memorable "debate" (LOL) I had with a dear friend of mine, Mike, who I truly love and respect, when he was insisting I fully turn off DSC at my track events. I told him no. I was not comfortable with that yet. While I have no desire to run with DSC on forever, I wanted to be comfortable with my choice to turn it off completely. At my next track weekend, this weekend, at Roebling Road which will be my 11th track day, I am turning DSC off fully for the first time. I consider this a big step that I take very seriously. Roebling is a big, flat, course with plenty of run off room. It is my second time driving the track and I am finally comfortable with the step of turning off DSC. One major contributing factor in my confidence level was doing a wet skid pad event a couple months ago. I highly recommend this type of event for any HPDE student. Drifting is fun, sure. But, my biggest takeaway from that afternoon was truly feeling the limits of my car before it lost control. I spent the majority of time on the skid pad with DSC off, you kind of have to if you want to drift. Riding the line of almost drifting or spinning out has a distinct feel. One second you have grip, the other you do not. Feeling the very distinct moment when the car starts to loose control, while in a controlled environment, taught me more lessons in car control than all of my HPDEs from the prior year. Also practicing how to maneuver the car once it had lost control was immensely beneficial. Again, I HIGHLY recommend this type of car control clinic for anyone who drives on track, especially novice & intermediate level students.

3. This incident was a very eye opening experience for me. I will likely be more reserved than usual this weekend coming up. I will be the fastest one out there one day, but that day is not today. I am not there yet.

Sorry for the super long post. Thank you for reading my thoughts.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by DreamTime

Omg, I've been so busy I have not had a chance to read everything that has revolved around these posts about this incident at an HPDE. First off, Ricardo, I'm truly glad you are okay. My heart goes out to your instructor. I hope he is not negatively impacted in a permanent way.

As a novice moving towards intermediate run groups, I just want to say a few things that this incident has made me reflect on.

1. Last year was my first year driving any car at the track. I showed up with a high horsepower E90 M3, which, depending on who you talk to, is not the best car for a beginner. I love this car though, and I do not push it, or myself, beyond its capabilities. I listen intensely to my instructors 100% of the time. I have a certain type of love and respect for anyone who teaches me in life, and this is especially true for someone who is essentially risking their lives to instruct me.

2. I have received and taken to heart some absolutely priceless advice from some amazing and memorable people since beginning this hobby. My favorite pieces of advice for beginners (or anyone who is in a position where much learning is still necessary):

A.) Keep your car stock for the first year. Which I pretty much did. All 8 of my track days last year were with an almost completely stock car (I lowered the car with H&R sport springs & got wheels for aesthetic reasons, upgraded to Motul RBF600 fluid & PFC high performance street pads in front, and did the OEM exhaust mod bc I like loud exhaust) on the stock Michelin PSS tires. I have since changed tires to RE71Rs (which I plan to stick with for a long while), adjusted my camber, and upgraded my brake pads all around. I still have no plans to modify for added hp, most of my near future mods, that are not cosmetic in nature, will focus on safety as I increase my speeds on the track.

B.) Focus on being smooth, with your throttle inputs and braking, with steering, with how you drive the line - speed will come later. I am usually one of the slower people on the course the first day of a track weekend. I have even had friends make fun of me (jokingly of course) about me pointing by waayyyyy slower cars all throughout the first day at a track, but I don't care. I am great at giving point bys all day long on my first day. Once I am comfortable with the track, with the line, and with the corners, I bump it up on the second day. But, I never sacrifice smoothness for speed. Not yet, not at my skill level.

C.) The only prize at an HPDE is driving your car home at the end of the weekend. This matters to me so very much. It helps me to keep a good perspective on how I am handling myself on the track.

D.) One piece of advice I bucked? Turn off DSC. I have had people tell me this was necessary during my first year so that I did not pick up bad driving habits. I understand the concept, fully. But - I did not feel comfortable turning DSC fully off throughout my entire first year (I always put it in "sport" mode I think it's called), and even at my first track event this year at WGI. I remember one very memorable "debate" (LOL) I had with a dear friend of mine, Mike, who I truly love and respect, when he was insisting I fully turn off DSC at my track events. I told him no. I was not comfortable with that yet. While I have no desire to run with DSC on forever, I wanted to be comfortable with my choice to turn it off completely. At my next track weekend, this weekend, at Roebling Road which will be my 11th track day, I am turning DSC off fully for the first time. I consider this a big step that I take very seriously. Roebling is a big, flat, course with plenty of run off room. It is my second time driving the track and I am finally comfortable with the step of turning off DSC. One major contributing factor in my confidence level was doing a wet skid pad event a couple months ago. I highly recommend this type of event for any HPDE student. Drifting is fun, sure. But, my biggest takeaway from that afternoon was truly feeling the limits of my car before it lost control. I spent the majority of time on the skid pad with DSC off, you kind of have to if you want to drift. Riding the line of almost drifting or spinning out has a distinct feel. One second you have grip, the other you do not. Feeling the very distinct moment when the car starts to loose control, while in a controlled environment, taught me more lessons in car control than all of my HPDEs from the prior year. Also practicing how to maneuver the car once it had lost control was immensely beneficial. Again, I HIGHLY recommend this type of car control clinic for anyone who drives on track, especially novice & intermediate level students.

3. This incident was a very eye opening experience for me. I will likely be more reserved than usual this weekend coming up. I will be the fastest one out there one day, but that day is not today. I am not there yet.

Sorry for the super long post. Thank you for reading my thoughts.

Awesome you're learning this way. But I will say skid pad and losing grip on track is a bit different because you are at higher speed on a shaped course with different terrain (cambered, off cambered, smooth vs rough pavement, and of course grass, curbing, and dirt).

Skid pad practice should have helped you become relaxed and react so that's a start.

Rally school would be the ultimate prep.

[DreamTime]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Awesome you're learning this way. But I will say skid pad and losing grip on track is a bit different because you are at higher speed on a shaped course with different terrain (cambered, off cambered, smooth vs rough pavement, and of course grass, curbing, and dirt).

Skid pad practice should have helped you become relaxed and react so that's a start.

Rally school would be the ultimate prep.

Absolutely, I can see the difference there. I think you're right - it did help me relax in a situation where my car started to lose control. It helped me learn to react in a rational way. I do still think one benefit was to really feel the exact moment when my tires lost grip. That happened many times that day on the skid pad. Near the end of the day, I also started to feel the way my tires felt right before they lost grip. There are so many different levels of grip, learning to feel and differentiate between them was amazing.

Rally school? How have I not heard of this? I just looked it up, this does look like something I would greatly benefit from! Thanks

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by DreamTime

Absolutely, I can see the difference there. I think you're right - it did help me relax in a situation where my car started to lose control. It helped me learn to react in a rational way. I do still think one benefit was to really feel the exact moment when my tires lost grip. That happened many times that day on the skid pad. Near the end of the day, I also started to feel the way my tires felt right before they lost grip. There are so many different levels of grip, learning to feel and differentiate between them was amazing.

Rally school? How have I not heard of this? I just looked it up, this does look like something I would greatly benefit from! Thanks

Check out Dirtfish. It's on my bucket list.

[DreamTime]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Check out Dirtfish. It's on my bucket list.

Nice, that one definitely popped up when I searched. I will be thinking about this now for sure.

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Oh lol

I'd retire a corded tire.

Thank you

[FMLYSDN]

Thank you.

The tires themselves were a used set from a track buddy.

As for the setup on the car, I ran the same setup on my previous RE71Rs which were new. I rotated them religiously and never experienced the type of shoulder wear that I saw with these Hoosiers. I have read that the wear was a symptom of the tire as many have commented on the shoulder wear on an R7 with even more Camber than I have been running.

Front -2.8
Toe 1/32 IN

Rear -1.8
Toe 3/32 IN

These are values provided by Malek at MRF.

The track itself tends to wear the left side tires more, but I've been able to combat that with rotating tires.

Any input is appreciated.

[crzydave17]

Edit: Nevermind.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

Front -2.8
Toe 1/32 IN

Rear -1.8
Toe 3/32 IN

What sort of caster and other alignment numbers do you have?

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by dparm

What sort of caster and other alignment numbers do you have?

This is all I have. I could try and get that other info from my mechanic however this is what I am limited to at the moment.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

Thank you.

The tires themselves were a used set from a track buddy.

As for the setup on the car, I ran the same setup on my previous RE71Rs which were new. I rotated them religiously and never experienced the type of shoulder wear that I saw with these Hoosiers. I have read that the wear was a symptom of the tire as many have commented on the shoulder wear on an R7 with even more Camber than I have been running.

Front -2.8
Toe 1/32 IN

Rear -1.8
Toe 3/32 IN

These are values provided by Malek at MRF.

The track itself tends to wear the left side tires more, but I've been able to combat that with rotating tires.

Any input is appreciated.

sounds like a street setup. Do you track a lot or once in a while? typical is at least 3 degrees and zero toe for rotation (Front). toe out is more desirable but that compromises tire wear for the street.

this is like trying to turn in with pigeon toe.

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

sounds like a street setup. Do you track a lot or once in a while? typical is at least 3 degrees and zero toe for rotation (Front). toe out is more desirable but that compromises tire wear for the street.

this is like trying to turn in with pigeon toe.

Initially I was looking for a street and track compromise. This was the suggested setting that was given.

I now have the car as a dedicated track setup so i am open to suggestions for a more track orientated camber and toe.

[NoCarrier]

Originally Posted by FMLYSDN

Initially I was looking for a street and track compromise. This was the suggested setting that was given.

I now have the car as a dedicated track setup so i am open to suggestions for a more track orientated camber and toe.

There's a comprehensive ongoing thread about this, and this is a particularly helpful post from dogbone :
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...5#post22059735

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

There's a comprehensive ongoing thread about this, and this is a particularly helpful post from dogbone :
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...5#post22059735

Thank you. I have read alot the items regarding dogbone recommendations.

Max Camber in the Front and -2.2 in the rear. I did not see a mention of Toe for front or rear. Perhaps I missed it. I did read his comments regarding the minimal changes in toe when he was going from a track camber to street camber.

[FMLYSDN]

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

There's a comprehensive ongoing thread about this, and this is a particularly helpful post from dogbone :
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...5#post22059735

I guess I am also wondering about this camber setting and the tires being used. Would -3.8 be too much for a RE71R compared to a Hossier R7? I am inclined to think that you would not need as much camber for the RE71R?

Thoughts?

[CorruptCommie]

I run NT-01's on -3.5F, -2.5R and they wear evenly. On an E46 M3.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by dparm

Call the guys at Northstar Motorsports. Schroth sets a market price on all their stuff which is why you'll basically never see anyone selling it cheaper.


Honestly, the SHR Flex is not as comfortable as the regular HANS. The yokes have no padding and have a strange ribbed design on the underside. It really digs into your collarbone.

I wouldn't bother with the SHR Flex unless you are constantly switching between cars with different seat reclines or you have some ridiculous barrel chest. The traditional HANS costs the same and is more comfortable.

I've been using a Simpson Hybrid Pro for awhile, but now that I've added a Schroth Quick Fit Pro set of 4-point harnesses, I'm considering a more simple HANS like the regular Simpson or the Schroth. I've heard the SHM isnt all that comfortable from a number of folks, and I had no issues using a standard HANS in Chump and Lemons for several years... so I'll probably look at the standard HANS one. Thanks for the tips.