Track forum general chit chat.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

It was two races - 7 hours on Saturday, 6 hours on Sunday. Split between four drivers, it made for driving stints of about an hour and a half.

That's fantastic. Bet you were tired after all that seat time. Trying to pass offline into 5 is a fools errand unless he had even less hp than you.

Longest I ever ran at a single time was a 2 hour "enduro" at PIR in Phoenix with NASA. Included a mandatory 5 minute pit stop to facilitate safe driver change outs. Race had everything from Porsche Cup cars on slicks with air jacks to my E30 325iS (aka money pit #1). Fun race.

There's a real art to endurance races like the one you raced in. Figuring out max fuel load, etc., to minimize pit time, maximize tire and brake life, etc. Wish I'd have done more when I was active in the sport. Lemons and Chump Car look like fun as well.

[crzydave17]

Oops wrong thread.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

anyone ever mess around with these? you set them at a specific psi, and they bleed off air as the tires heat up and build pressure.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001NNBGAG...v_ov_lig_dp_it

That's neat, but $225? No thanks.

[dparm]

Does anyone have experience with replacing the rotor rings on floating/two-piece brakes? Specifically, sourcing the hardware?

My Corvette has these from the factory but oddly GM does not sell just the rotor ring -- you have to buy the whole assembly. I was able to buy the DBA 5000-series rings dirt-cheap during their spring cleaning sale but suddenly it looks like there is no way to replace the hardware short of dropping $100/wheel on Racing Brake's hardware:
https://www.racingbrake.com/McLaren-...re-p/ml1-e.htm

I am seeing a lot of conflicting info about reusing the hardware. DBA says you can, some aftermarket BBK companies say you should always replace, and GM doesn't even have any guidance since they don't sell it separately. Even on the Corvette and Camaro forums there is disagreement. I can't tell if these are torque-to-yield bolts. My fear is getting it to the shop, having them disassemble everything, and saying "oh do you have replacement hardware? these bolts are all stretched/we broke some." Part of me thinks I should just dig into the McMaster-Carr catalog and find the equivalent item rather than paying some absurd 500% mark-up on RB's bolts.

Here's what one Camaro SS 1LE guy did (same brakes as me):
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492428

Any ideas here?

[ThunderMoose]

I buy replacement rings from https://www.zeckhausen.com.

The rings usually come with the fastening hardware.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I buy replacement rings from https://www.zeckhausen.com.

The rings usually come with the fastening hardware.

Yes, I buy all my stuff from Dave. I couldn't pass up buying the rings directly from DBA because they were basically half-price. Oddly, there was no hardware in any of the boxes. I will need to call DBA on Monday and ask them to send it out.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dparm

I am seeing a lot of conflicting info about reusing the hardware. DBA says you can, some aftermarket BBK companies say you should always replace, and GM doesn't even have any guidance since they don't sell it separately. Even on the Corvette and Camaro forums there is disagreement. I can't tell if these are torque-to-yield bolts. My fear is getting it to the shop, having them disassemble everything, and saying "oh do you have replacement hardware? these bolts are all stretched/we broke some." Part of me thinks I should just dig into the McMaster-Carr catalog and find the equivalent item rather than paying some absurd 500% mark-up on RB's bolts.

here is my take on hardware, but these words also come with this disclaimer- i'm not an expert and this is my theory.

after swapping my front rotors, once, i found that the bobbins and the springs clips weren't in bad shape. the bolts and nuts weren't in bad shape, either, but they get embedded with brake dust while being exposed to very high heat... they sort of develop a film on them- almost like when you don't wash your car for a long time and it now needs to be clayed. the bolt and nut surfaces develop a roughness.
since they require a specific torque spec, if you were to re-use them, they may now have different torque tolerances. you wouldn't want one bolt to be significantly tighter than the other and have the ring not expand correctly as it heats up.
so after doing it once, i had my "ah hah!" moment; the nuts and bolts get crusty after a little while.

i suppose you've seen the thread on the guy using a racing brake setup and getting all kinds of jacked up hardware issues and a failure?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...ure-track.html

[dparm]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

here is my take on hardware, but these words also come with this disclaimer- i'm not an expert and this is my theory.

after swapping my front rotors, once, i found that the bobbins and the springs clips weren't in bad shape. the bolts and nuts weren't in bad shape, either, but they get embedded with brake dust while being exposed to very high heat... they sort of develop a film on them- almost like when you don't wash your car for a long time and it now needs to be clayed. the bolt and nut surfaces develop a roughness.
since they require a specific torque spec, if you were to re-use them, they may now have different torque tolerances. you wouldn't want one bolt to be significantly tighter than the other and have the ring not expand correctly as it heats up.
so after doing it once, i had my "ah hah!" moment; the nuts and bolts get crusty after a little while.

i suppose you've seen the thread on the guy using a racing brake setup and getting all kinds of jacked up hardware issues and a failure?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...ure-track.html

Appreciate the info. The bolts should be relatively easy to find.

Thanks for sharing that thread, pretty friggin crazy! RB did reply on their site that he basically did not have the correct part for his application:
http://forums.racingbrake.com/showthread.php?t=1482

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dparm

Appreciate the info. The bolts should be relatively easy to find.

Thanks for sharing that thread, pretty friggin crazy! RB did reply on their site that he basically did not have the correct part for his application:
http://forums.racingbrake.com/showthread.php?t=1482

the racing brake name comes up on here from time to time and i don't recall any issues on here, but it perked my attention when you stated they say its fine to re-use hardware and i can specifically remember them having what may have been a hardware failure.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

the racing brake name comes up on here from time to time and i don't recall any issues on here, but it perked my attention when you stated they say its fine to re-use hardware and i can specifically remember them having what may have been a hardware failure.

Truthfully, their name seems to come up more often than others when it comes to component failures. No idea if this is just confirmation bias, but they also get quite defensive and the answer they supplied on their own forums didn't even try to explain why the part may have failed....which is troubling.

[kyippee]

Drove a Ferrari 488 and a Huracan at exotics racing Las Vegas earlier today. Shocking how easy it is to drive the 488. Started off in sport mode as usual, instructor reached over after the first couple of laps and put me in race mode. Set a pretty decent lap time too, supposedly instructors do 1:52-1:54 depending on car, my best in lap 7 was 1:57.15.

488 easier car to drive fast than E92 M3.. what the. I thought the high power would be much more difficult to handle, but it was all really easy with no rear sliding on me. I'm glad they let me take a good pace too, not putting me in a sea of traffic either! Huracan is strangely twitchy with the throttle and steering was not tight- had to turn the wheel a lot to make turns. Was a few second slower as the 2nd instructor had more of the kid gloves on. Had me braking very early at only half pedal pressure. Still fun to try out the car though

[CorruptCommie]

Something a little different:

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

Something a little different:

Lol just lol

[Richbot]

123 on the back straight at mid-o ain’t too shabby

[arter]

probably needs better tires

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by arter

probably needs better tires

It's on Michelin PS4's. Actually the brakes were the limiting factor - they must have used some long life low wear compound due to regenerative braking. Works great on the street and panic stopping, but can't stop the car at 125mph. I overheated them on the warmup lap, did this lap, then came off.

I was glad to be back in the M3 after I got it fixed later in the day

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dparm

Any ideas here?

another thought on your hardware.... you can probably re-use those bobbins. if you're able to check the thread and length of your bolts, you might be able to get away with the essex hardware kit. might be a stretch...
https://www.essexparts.com/10bolt-disc-hardware-kit

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dparm

Thanks for sharing that thread, pretty friggin crazy! RB did reply on their site that he basically did not have the correct part for his application:
http://forums.racingbrake.com/showthread.php?t=1482

very interesting on that failure... basically, he was using the wrong offset hat and one side was pressing harder on the other, creating unnecessary stress. what an idiot.
i wonder how many of these frankenbrake setups from overseas have jacked up offsets.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

Something a little different:

You got the Jalopnik bump!

https://jalopnik.com/watch-how-the-t...bes-1826056276

[roastbeef]

nice!

[NoCarrier]

Originally Posted by admranger

That's fantastic. Bet you were tired after all that seat time. Trying to pass offline into 5 is a fools errand unless he had even less hp than you.

Longest I ever ran at a single time was a 2 hour "enduro" at PIR in Phoenix with NASA. Included a mandatory 5 minute pit stop to facilitate safe driver change outs. Race had everything from Porsche Cup cars on slicks with air jacks to my E30 325iS (aka money pit #1). Fun race.

There's a real art to endurance races like the one you raced in. Figuring out max fuel load, etc., to minimize pit time, maximize tire and brake life, etc. Wish I'd have done more when I was active in the sport. Lemons and Chump Car look like fun as well.

That NASA race sounds exciting. Much more intense paddock vibe I would guess. I've been really tempted to start slow-building a Spec e46 to eventually race in NASA.

You're right about the endurance aspect of it. It's much more than just getting out there and chasing fast laps. We normally race an e36 in Lemons, which is a class A car, so you'll run a 2+ hour stint while constantly navigating traffic and trying to stay cool and relaxed so you don't wear yourself out. And you soon realize that being a tenth faster per lap on the track is worthless if you come in for pit stops and everyone's standing around as if you're not in the middle of a motor race. You also have to be smart with taking advantage of full-course yellows. Oh, and follow the dang rules so you're not getting black-flagged. Six years in, we've learned that preparation and organization is just as important as talent behind the wheel. We think there's a chance that we could go for an overall win with the e36. We would have to keep it at three stints per day, so over 2.5 hours each, and with lightning fast pit stops and a bit of luck we might be able to get the best of the 150-car field.

[NoCarrier]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

It's on Michelin PS4's. Actually the brakes were the limiting factor - they must have used some long life low wear compound due to regenerative braking. Works great on the street and panic stopping, but can't stop the car at 125mph. I overheated them on the warmup lap, did this lap, then came off.

I was glad to be back in the M3 after I got it fixed later in the day

Kudos for putting the model 3 through its paces! That probably puts you in a fairly exclusive club. Cool video.