Bearing Update - Replaced at 17,000 Miles

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

At what miles are you, Helmsman?

36k and a bit Prem. Will still be crazy low mileage for RB replacement till Autumn but figure no reason to push out the invest in time as no money to be made but only risk added. Have warranty going out Spring '19 so gives me a few months should something go south.

[330ciprem]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

36k and a bit Prem. Will still be crazy low mileage for RB replacement till Autumn but figure no reason to push out the invest in time as no money to be made but only risk added. Have warranty going out Spring '19 so gives me a few months should something go south.

Fair point - No need to wait when you plan on doing it in the near future anyway.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

Fair point - No need to wait when you plan on doing it in the near future anyway.

So a bit more time to decide on shells, would be interesting to see som BE opened up. Lets see.

[330ciprem]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

So a bit more time to decide on shells, would be interesting to see som BE opened up. Lets see.

I am leaning towards WPC.

I want to believe that BMW didn't just ignore this issue for no reason and the updated bearings with slightly higher clearance will do the job + the reduction in friction due to the WPC treatment.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

I am leaning towards WPC.

I want to believe that BMW didn't just ignore this issue for no reason and the updated bearings with slightly higher clearance will do the job + the reduction in friction due to the WPC treatment.

So they will be ordered as extra clearance OEM, from where? Not going BE?

Trying to understand who 's doing what and where to buy on the aftermarket. We don't have plenty engine shops around here so want to be sure what they order when the day comes...

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

So they will be ordered as extra clearance OEM, from where? Not going BE?

Trying to understand who 's doing what and where to buy on the aftermarket. We don't have plenty engine shops around here so want to be sure what they order when the day comes...

I would provide the bearings/bolts to the shop vs have them order them. I did another set of rod bearings this weekend and remembered, yet again, how unlikely it is for any shop to correctly torque the OEM bolts.

There is no such thing as an OEM bearing with extra clearance. WPC slightly increases the clearance, but you're starting at 1/2 of industry average clearance so I"m not sure how that is supposed to move the needle.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I would provide the bearings/bolts to the shop vs have them order them. I did another set of rod bearings this weekend and remembered, yet again, how unlikely it is for any shop to correctly torque the OEM bolts.

There is no such thing as an OEM bearing with extra clearance. WPC slightly increases the clearance, but you're starting at 1/2 of industry average clearance so I"m not sure how that is supposed to move the needle.

Thanks Syt. Yep, may end up purchasing the material myself, not there just yet and haven't decided finally on what to go for.
I thought WPC only where the coating while they used Clevite or somebody else' shells? Seems I have to make myself a little spread sheet with shell fab, coating and distributor in order to get the complete picture...Getting there
PS. And yes, ARP bolts are decided which I understand not only are higher qual but also less wrench rounds and mistakes.

[330ciprem]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

So they will be ordered as extra clearance OEM, from where? Not going BE?

Trying to understand who 's doing what and where to buy on the aftermarket. We don't have plenty engine shops around here so want to be sure what they order when the day comes...

I am talking about the Aluminium ones that came after 2011.

Sorry wasn't clear before. They have slightly higher clearance compared to the pre 2011 lead bearings.

[pbonsalb]

I don’t think the later bearings were designed to add any clearance compared to the early bearings. Just a change in metal type for environmental reasons.

[330ciprem]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I don’t think the later bearings were designed to add any clearance compared to the early bearings. Just a change in metal type for environmental reasons.

Correct me if I am wrong but I have read threads where people have measured the bearings clearance.
I think BE bearings had one of those posts/
Let me find one.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

I am talking about the Aluminium ones that came after 2011.

Sorry wasn't clear before. They have slightly higher clearance compared to the pre 2011 lead bearings.

Got it Prem. The later 702/703 apparently increased clearance but ever so little, while the significantly harder material apparently is an issue should the shell go south.
Reading BE's story is certainly is compelling. Again would be really interesting to see a few coming out after sufficient mileage.

[b4hand]

Has anyone compared these to a similar engine with similar milage? IDK what would even qualify as similar but I've never seen the bearings on any other car at 17k miles besides the e9x m3.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

Correct me if I am wrong but I have read threads where people have measured the bearings clearance.
I think BE bearings had one of those posts/
Let me find one.

Here we are mate: http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index....5_Rod_Bearings. One have to assume these guys know their way around the tools. Haven't tried to cross check the numbers.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Thanks Syt. Yep, may end up purchasing the material myself, not there just yet and haven't decided finally on what to go for.
I thought WPC only where the coating while they used Clevite or somebody else' shells? Seems I have to make myself a little spread sheet with shell fab, coating and distributor in order to get the complete picture...Getting there
PS. And yes, ARP bolts are decided which I understand not only are higher qual but also less wrench rounds and mistakes.

If it's an ARP bolt it has to be the BE-ARP one. If not stick to OEM ones.
On the S54 and S65 the regular ARP bolts deform the cap

'WPC' treatment can be applied to any shell, but generally when people say 'WPC' they mean an OEM bearing with WPC treatment.
The increased tolerance will not make much of a difference and you'll be locked into a tin/alu shell without the possibility to monitor bearing wear.

WPC was pretty much the only option until BE came along, but now that BE is there I wouldn't go to WPC.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

We/I saw worse . In 2013 , a 2013 with only 6K miles on it had bearing failure . His S65 was lost by shavings , but was covered and replaced by BMW warranty.

I know this person, who had a track failure with rod knock. Had engine replaced under warranty however the car was a Dinan modified car, running TWS. And not so sure the oil was fresh before the track day.
Anyways, if your redline is extended to 8600 and you're at the track you're probably going to try it out.
This was not a stock car.

[330ciprem]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Here we are mate: http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index....5_Rod_Bearings. One have to assume these guys know their way around the tools. Haven't tried to cross check the numbers.

Yup. This is the one!!

Thanks, Helmsman.

pbonsalb - This is the one.

[330ciprem]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I know this person, who had a track failure with rod knock. Had engine replaced under warranty however the car was a Dinan modified car, running TWS. And not so sure the oil was fresh before the track day.
Anyways, if your redline is extended to 8600 and you're at the track you're probably going to try it out.
This was not a stock car.

I am sorry but what does TWS mean?

And thanks for your input. It's good to know additional info.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

I am sorry but what does TWS mean?

And thanks for your input. It's good to know additional info.

Castrol 10w-60
Ten Winter Sixty

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If it's an ARP bolt it has to be the BE-ARP one. If not stick to OEM ones.
On the S54 and S65 the regular ARP bolts deform the cap

'WPC' treatment can be applied to any shell, but generally when people say 'WPC' they mean an OEM bearing with WPC treatment.
The increased tolerance will not make much of a difference and you'll be locked into a tin/alu shell without the possibility to monitor bearing wear.

WPC was pretty much the only option until BE came along, but now that BE is there I wouldn't go to WPC.

Thanks again Syt. Didn't realize BE actually had another ARP bolt design (assuming still the same fab ie ARP?). Still learning everyday.

[G80indy]

https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...s-brochure.pdf


45% : Dirt!
Change your oil

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by 330ciprem

Yup. This is the one!!

Thanks, Helmsman.

pbonsalb - This is the one.

It would be interesting for the rod bearing litigation if it could be proven BMW increased clearance with the later bearings due to rod bearing problems, but I don’t think that link has ever been made. I am not sure the slight added clearance is for any purpose other than to reduce risk of journal damage due to the harder material.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Thanks again Syt. Didn't realize BE actually had another ARP bolt design (assuming still the same fab ie ARP?). Still learning everyday.

Yes, it's built by ARP but to BE's specs.

Back when I did rbs on my E46M i had to do the long torque procedure as the regular ARP had already shown to bend the cap, so OEM was the only alternative