Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread

[luckyse7en]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

Haha,

You can see some more pics here:
NBT -> NBT EVO w/ touchscreen Retrofit http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1457504

I've had multiple kits sitting here for months.. will probably release a kit once the M4/M3 Tuning load reduces. So far there is 50k of inventory collecting dust that I don't have time to list for sale

Also - as a side note, should be pretty easy to fix that hesitation. Spent a few minutes on my car with the stage II injectors and it's pretty much non existent.

The throttle body is not an on/off switch - but the cars understanding of boost is essentially an on/off switch with the stock pressure sensors.

M.Hagen - sent you a PM.

Would love more info for NBT EVO retrofit as soon as it's available. Is there a rear camera and front PDC retrofit that can be added to EVO retrofit?

[JustAnothaM4]

I wanna play!! Looking forward to the updated tune and stage 2 upgrade.

[Yoko22R]

Originally Posted by project e46m3

I wanna play!! Looking forward to the updated tune and stage 2 upgrade.

Hell yes! Tip for the install. Have a can of silicone spray to lube the rubber connections.

[M3sicko]

Originally Posted by project e46m3

I wanna play!! Looking forward to the updated tune and stage 2 upgrade.

Originally Posted by project e46m3

I wanna play!! Looking forward to the updated tune and stage 2 upgrade.

[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/xaxf5z.jpg[/IMG]

See that you couldnt wait for the stage 2 to be released first

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

Looking into potentially changing out the map sensor so the car can actually see "boost" in the mapping (this will make drivability 100% OEM - id say it's 90% there) and need to finish dialing in the larger injectors and flex fuel kit. There will be some developments here, aided by live tuning a stand-alone control unit, and then porting that back over to the stock DME.

I'm actually rather surprised that the kit doesn't include a map sensor that can read boost if the stock one can't already. Especially at the 10k price of the kit.

Any idea what the time frame is on this? This seems like an extremely worthwhile change.

[burnrbr]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I'm actually rather surprised that the kit doesn't include a map sensor that can read boost if the stock one can't already. Especially at the 10k price of the kit.

Any idea what the time frame is on this? This seems like an extremely worthwhile change.

I was thinking the same thing.

[ruderegime]

Obviously an awesome thread. I'm definitely looking at the Harrop SC, and patiently awaiting news on stage 2. In the meantime what else should I look at to lay down the power, and anything else that needs to be addressed while supercharging besides lighter fatter wheels. I still have it narrowed down my wheel choice yet. I'm wanting something affordable sexy wide and light. I do have the KW EDC coilovers. And is there some kind of subframe bolts or something to try to help hook up after supercharged? Of course I'm doing rod bearings, motor, and tranny mounts (DCT) and spark plugs.
Any help and suggestion would be awesome I'm definitely clueless when it comes to wheel and tire sizes and offsets.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention that I do have a catless exhaust setup

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

FINALLY got the Stage II conversion kit installed and reflashed. More power and torque combined with better drive ability in the ~3 to ~3.5RPM range (when the bypass valve opens). Just need a new set of drag radials now.

Can you please explain the differences between the Stage 1 and 2? Havent heard any concrete news on the stage 2

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

FINALLY got the Stage II conversion kit installed and reflashed. More power and torque combined with better drive ability in the ~3 to ~3.5RPM range (when the bypass valve opens). Just need a new set of drag radials now.

Interested in the Stage-2 details. I'm only seeing actual 3.5psi at my elevation, so I've been trying to find oversized crank pulley to compensate.

Does Stage-2 offer a smaller S/C snout pulley or oversized crank pulley?

[dozaiya]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

FINALLY got the Stage II conversion kit installed and reflashed. More power and torque combined with better drive ability in the ~3 to ~3.5RPM range (when the bypass valve opens). Just need a new set of drag radials now.

why you are the first one to get it without any official detail?

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

The post was a joke to warm up the thread again and provoke some discussion. Stage II won't be realized in my opinion because the return on R&D capital investment will take too long. In other words, the small number of Stage I kits sold to date is "probably" not high enough to pay for any more development. Now that the F-Series cars are in the market that is where the money (profit) seems to be for traditional tuning suppliers. In order for Stage II to become reality, development testing (reliability and durability as well as software and hardware) would need to be conducted and paid for. For this to happen, a business case is typically needed. Larger capacity injectors already exist, but the fuel pump capacity may also need to be increased to maintain fuel rail pressure at the larger fuel flow volume demanded by the larger injectors (which is needed when boost and air volume are increased). The SC nose shaft pulley is already quite small in diameter. It could be reduced in diameter a little but a better solution is to increase the diameter of the crank pulley. If the crank pulley diameter is increased then the alternator and power steering pump pulley diameters also need to be increased to avoid over revving (over working) the existing ancillary drives. Everything has the work together and I haven't even mentioned the need to re flash the Harrop ECU and iron out the kinks in the dyno and AFR curves when the bypass valve suddenly opens in the 3-3.5K RPM range. Stage II is a myth. Go back through this thread and look at the date stamps of posts on this topic as well as the responses to the questions about availability. Stage II is called a C7 Z06.

Good job on the trolling lol

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

_

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Something seems strange about that 3.5psi. The kit is supposed to produce at least 6.0psi. There is a hex port on the passenger side of the plenum where boost signal can be sampled. I'm wondering IF your plenum has a rubber boot not sealing on one or more of the throttle bodies OR a boost leak somewhere else. Put on a dyno and log the boost. Also suggest 3 gals of E85 mixed with rest of tank E10 93 octane. Mike at BPM mentioned one time he had a smaller pulley on the shelf. Could also get one machined but be careful to only go slightly smaller diameter and/or must talk to Mike B' at BPM Sport. Suggest also contacting Heath Moore (owner) at Harrop about the boost drop due to elevation mitigation plan..

Nothing wrong with the setup. Common for high-altitude. Other positive displacement S/C cars see the same actual PSI drops (GT500, C7 Z06, etc).

The absolute PSI I am seeing at the plenum is 6.0-6.3 psi (measured using a P3 gauge calibrated for my ambient atmospheric pressure at 4500ft). This is from the port on the side of the Harrop plenum you mentioned.

The actual PSI I am seeing from at the MAP sensor is 3.0-3.3 psi depending on weather (low pressure day or high pressure day).

A high-pressure sunny day here will be about 11.5psi. Sea-level standard barometric pressure is around 14.7psi (1 ATM).

(~11.5 psi + 6.5 psi) – 14.7 psi = 3.3 psi

How the math works:
(actual barometric pressure + supercharger output) - standard atmospheric pressure = actual supercharger output

[dozaiya]

sad to see this thread sinking

[roastbeef]

all they would have to do is get this kit CARB certified and they would have 95% of the california market. thats a lot of m3's. all these california cars are aging out of smog abatement and have to be smogged.

[eternallx]

I just want an updated tune with better throttle modulation. I found out on track that its not the smoothest. Backing off the throttle a little bit mid drift feels like TC just kicked in and straightens the car out.

[JustAnothaM4]

Originally Posted by eternallx

I just want an updated tune with better throttle modulation. I found out on track that its not the smoothest. Backing off the throttle a little bit mid drift feels like TC just kicked in and straightens the car out.

Are you dealing with any cooling issues on track? Need cool down laps?

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

all they would have to do is get this kit CARB certified and they would have 95% of the california market. thats a lot of m3's. all these california cars are aging out of smog abatement and have to be smogged.

This!! Only thing really stopping me.

Dave

[eternallx]

Originally Posted by project e46m3

Are you dealing with any cooling issues on track? Need cool down laps?

My track days have been in 50-60 degree weather so far and no cooling issues with 25 min sessions.
Note I do also have CSF water radiator (OEM BMW coolant)

I emailed Harrop before buying the kit and on their M3 they only upgraded the radiator as well. (Note: CSF oil cooler doesnt work with the harrop s/c cooler)

Track days coming up this month should be closer to 80 degrees so I'll update this thread

[Melchior]

Originally Posted by eternallx

My track days have been in 50-60 degree weather so far and no cooling issues with 25 min sessions.
Note I do also have CSF water radiator (OEM BMW coolant)

I emailed Harrop before buying the kit and on their M3 they only upgraded the radiator as well. (Note: CSF oil cooler doesnt work with the harrop s/c cooler)

Track days coming up this month should be closer to 80 degrees so I'll update this thread

Can you clarify why the CSF oil cooler doesn’t fit with the Happop heat exchanger? The CSF oil cooler is very close to OEM in size.

[eternallx]

Originally Posted by Melchior

Can you clarify why the CSF oil cooler doesn’t fit with the Happop heat exchanger? The CSF oil cooler is very close to OEM in size.

The Harrop exchanger sits directly on top of the oem oil cooler and cant sit any higher as the routing for the hoses going in and out of the exchanger limits because it pretty much already touching the chassis where the hose barbs are.

The CSF oil cooler as 2 more rows of fins above the oem cooler, so the the harrop cooler would have to sit about .75 - 1" higher to fit it but as I said that isnt possible without changing the exchanger or cutting into the chassis to allow movement.

[Melchior]

Thanks for the quick response. I already have a CSF oil cooler, so that’s a bummer I’ve been thinking about one for my car.

I’m interested in your track experience in higher temps as well.