More rod bearings

[pbonsalb]

It's definitely worth a look if your motor has a problem, since some people have been able to salvage the block and sometimes even the crank. I would spend that extra day of labor before replacing the motor, but if I had loads of money, I might just buy a spare and re-bearing it and swap it in and then look at the motor that came out to see whether it is junk or could be fixed and sold.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

It's definitely worth a look if your motor has a problem, since some people have been able to salvage the block and sometimes even the crank. I would spend that extra day of labor before replacing the motor, but if I had loads of money, I might just buy a spare and re-bearing it and swap it in and then look at the motor that came out to see whether it is junk or could be fixed and sold.

I think you missed my previous post with the cracks. I dug as deep as I could to confirm it was shot. I have no choice but to replace the engine/block now.

[deansbimmer]

I have a new block with 94mm bores you could build a 4.4 or 4.6 stroker with...

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

I have a new block with 94mm bores you could build a 4.4 or 4.6 stroker with...

I considered it earlier on but the crank, rods,and pistons are very expensive. Plus I hate the idea of needing to tune it. Thanks though!!

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by Duk996

I considered it earlier on but the crank, rods,and pistons are very expensive. Plus I hate the idea of needing to tune it. Thanks though!!

The 4.4 option uses stock crank and rods, just custom pistons. Tuning is easy. But yes it's still more expensive than stock.

[pbonsalb]

After boring +2mm is it still an alusil bore so the pistons have to be more expensive alusil compatible? Or is it sleeved?

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

After boring +2mm is it still an alusil bore so the pistons have to be more expensive alusil compatible? Or is it sleeved?

Alusil bores- it's not sleeved so the pistons require alusil compatibility (iron coated). You can spend the extra few thousand on sleeving a block, or you can spend the few extra thousand on Alusil pistons. It ends up roughly the same investment but then there's the debate as to whether sleeving is a viable long term solution to maintain reliability in these engines. Many don't believe so and prefer maintaining the Alusil bores.

[BigDenton]

Hi everyone
m3 2012, 40,000 km (25k miles), plan to replace bearings. Would you go for main+rod, or just rod at this milage?
There have been several engine failures due to main bearings recently in our region, so I am tempting to replace both on the one hand, but am scared to let someone put the whole engine apart on the other...

Would appreciate your opinions ! (and apologies for my english)

[shimmy23]

Originally Posted by BigDenton

Hi everyone
m3 2012, 40,000 km (25k miles), plan to replace bearings. Would you go for main+rod, or just rod at this milage?
There have been several engine failures due to main bearings recently in our region, so I am tempting to replace both on the one hand, but am scared to let someone put the whole engine apart on the other...

Would appreciate your opinions ! (and apologies for my english)

I’d just do RBs.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by BigDenton

Hi everyone
m3 2012, 40,000 km (25k miles), plan to replace bearings. Would you go for main+rod, or just rod at this milage?
There have been several engine failures due to main bearings recently in our region, so I am tempting to replace both on the one hand, but am scared to let someone put the whole engine apart on the other...

Would appreciate your opinions ! (and apologies for my english)

I can attest that doing main bearings is a huge job. The issue isn't even just doing the work, you need to know what shells to use, there are different sizes both for the block side and the bedplate side. Also, it seems that the root cause of all these bearing issues is the crazy tight clearances BMW uses; so while in there you really should open up the clearances making really knowing what your doing even more important/necessary. It's not for the faint of heart.

If I were you I would just do rod bearings. From what I have gathered they are the ones that have really tight clearances and fail soonest; the mains are a tiny bit looser and seem to fair better.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I can see the crack lines very clear in your pictures , you got rod knock ! Man , I'm really sorry !
Like I said in our PM's the shavings are NO (never) good !

Perhaps you should look for another S65 , but I can understand your situation and also your reaction ..

Honestly , if this was my S65. I would say the same thing about BMW !

Hey Phillipe, you mentioned rod knock, it actually wasn't rod knock, it was crank knock! Remember how I said the knock wasn't consistent and only seemed to happen once the car was warm/hot? And only at weird rpms? Check out the main bearing pics below. The 2 rear most main bearings have hammer marks from where the crank was rocking up and down and pounding them. With the 2 main fronts totally gone the crank was rocking on the middle main and pounding the back bearings. Zoom in on the pics and check out the middle of the 2 rear most shells and the sides of the middle shell; rocking!. It's interesting to say the least....

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Duk996

Hey Phillipe, you mentioned rod knock, it actually wasn't rod knock, it was crank knock! Remember how I said the knock wasn't consistent and only seemed to happen once the car was warm/hot? And only at weird rpms? Check out the main bearing pics below. The 2 rear most main bearings have hammer marks from where the crank was rocking up and down and pounding them. With the 2 main fronts totally gone the crank was rocking on the middle main and pounding the back bearings. Zoom in on the pics and check out the middle of the 2 rear most shells and the sides of the middle shell; rocking!. It's interesting to say the least....

Wow yes , I can see it . And you are right . Crank was totally out of balance . From the moment that I saw your shavings I knew something was terrible wrong .
What are your plans next ? Are you looking for another S65 ?

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Wow yes , I can see it . And you are right . Crank was totally out of balance . From the moment that I saw your shavings I knew something was terrible wrong .
What are your plans next ? Are you looking for another S65 ?

The plan is to get either a bmw supplied short block or a low mileage used engine. If I go used I am going to replace main and rod bearings and add clearance. If a BMW supplied short block I need to know from them they added clearance (I know, tough, I doubt they divulge any details).

I am definitely doing a JB light flywheel, new stock clutch, and primary cat delete.

I am on the fence about a harrop supercharger just because it's so expensive. It makes modest power and has top notch fit and finish though so that's appealing (I'm not looking to make 800 hp and blow the car up after 3k miles). I considered slapping this one together and getting a new car but nothing is appealing for the money. I'm trying to turn lemons into lemonade...

[BOOF-M3]

I am impressed by your resolve and good attitude. I have seen many who have been pretty beat up about it mostly due to the economics of the repair. As some have said, it has basically become a lead weight for them. I have thought about what I would do. Luckily I have an E92 and E93. If it happens to the E92 then the E93 is losing its engine. I know there are a lot of us following the thread and looking forward to seeing you get her back on the road as cheap as possible, although it does not appear that you do anything on the cheap.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I am impressed by your resolve and good attitude. I have seen many who have been pretty beat up about it mostly due to the economics of the repair. As some have said, it has basically become a lead weight for them. I have thought about what I would do. Luckily I have an E92 and E93. If it happens to the E92 then the E93 is losing its engine. I know there are a lot of us following the thread and looking forward to seeing you get her back on the road as cheap as possible, although it does not appear that you do anything on the cheap.

Yeah, the economic part sux and is not fair. While learning too much about this the past few weeks I have become hopeful about the lawsuit. I'm not making decisions based on some expected outcome but I feel like BMW will be held to account for this whole bearing fiasco. I got lambasted a bit when I started this thread and "whined" about how bearings should never fail like this but it's true. I would implore all those that had issues to reach out to the law firm handling the case and let them know you exist. It's not right that owners should go through the grief and incur the cost of bmw's mistake, regardless of why they made it.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Duk996

The plan is to get either a bmw supplied short block or a low mileage used engine. If I go used I am going to replace main and rod bearings and add clearance. If a BMW supplied short block I need to know from them they added clearance (I know, tough, I doubt they divulge any details).

I am definitely doing a JB light flywheel, new stock clutch, and primary cat delete.

I am on the fence about a harrop supercharger just because it's so expensive. It makes modest power and has top notch fit and finish though so that's appealing (I'm not looking to make 800 hp and blow the car up after 3k miles). I considered slapping this one together and getting a new car but nothing is appealing for the money. I'm trying to turn lemons into lemonade...

Your 2 major plans are not cheap , and are actually the price of a used 2010/12 with +/- 35K miles on it .
And you can sell your car without S65 ...

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Your 2 major plans are not cheap , and are actually the price of a used 2010/12 with +/- 35K miles on it .
And you can sell your car without S65 ...

The supercharger is disproportionately expensive. That's why I'm on the fence about it...

[i_love_cars]

made it halfway through page 6 and had to stop reading. OP sorry to hear, but c'mon.

In the year 2017, absolutely no one should be surprised about rod bearings. The Internet is readily available, and if you're foolish enough to not do your due diligence when you make a 5-figure purchasing decision to the tune of $30,000 or more on a used car, and then get upset when shit doesn't go your way, then I'm not sure a recall from BMW is going to really help you in the long run. I'd say it's likely you are set up for disappointment in other areas of your life as well.

I certainly paid for a warranty and as soon as it expires, I'm doing RBs or I may just sell the car if something else catches my eye. That said, I am also prepared for a shitshow with the warranty company if my motor ever grenades because any warranty company will want to weasel out of such a high repair cost. So I also make sure I have the cash on hand to replace the engine. I wanted to drive an E92 M3, so I found the cleanest, 1-owner example I could find, and I still am doing everything possible to protect my ability to retain the car in the event of catastrophic failure.

I hate to sound like a douche, but if anyone is buying this car which is known for having a race-derived engine, and he/she isn't willing to, or simply aren't financially prepared to deal with the potential failures that are WIDELY documented on the Internet by now, or at least do RBs as preventive - then they shouldn't be driving an E9x M3. Some people just don't want to spend the money on the repairs even if they can afford to - and that's fine but they shouldn't be driving this car.

It doesn't matter what BMW should have done when they designed this engine - gravity doesn't care what you think. It just is. This is the state of things and in no way is BMW's stance on the engine failures going to change overnight.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

made it halfway through page 6 and had to stop reading. OP sorry to hear, but c'mon.

In the year 2017, absolutely no one should be surprised about rod bearings. The Internet is readily available, and if you're foolish enough to not do your due diligence when you make a 5-figure purchasing decision to the tune of $30,000 or more on a used car, and then get upset when shit doesn't go your way, then I'm not sure a recall from BMW is going to really help you in the long run. I'd say it's likely you are set up for disappointment in other areas of your life as well.

I certainly paid for a warranty and as soon as it expires, I'm doing RBs or I may just sell the car if something else catches my eye. That said, I am also prepared for a shitshow with the warranty company if my motor ever grenades because any warranty company will want to weasel out of such a high repair cost. So I also make sure I have the cash on hand to replace the engine. I wanted to drive an E92 M3, so I found the cleanest, 1-owner example I could find, and I still am doing everything possible to protect my ability to retain the car in the event of catastrophic failure.

I hate to sound like a douche, but if anyone is buying this car which is known for having a race-derived engine, and he/she isn't willing to, or simply aren't financially prepared to deal with the potential failures that are WIDELY documented on the Internet by now, or at least do RBs as preventive - then they shouldn't be driving an E9x M3. Some people just don't want to spend the money on the repairs even if they can afford to - and that's fine but they shouldn't be driving this car.

It doesn't matter what BMW should have done when they designed this engine - gravity doesn't care what you think. It just is. This is the state of things and in no way is BMW's stance on the engine failures going to change overnight.

To each his own. Everyone deals with risk differently. I bought 4 years ago btw, things have matured a bit since then, granted the issue was known and I considered it.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

made it halfway through page 6 and had to stop reading. OP sorry to hear, but c'mon.

In the year 2017, absolutely no one should be surprised about rod bearings. The Internet is readily available, and if you're foolish enough to not do your due diligence when you make a 5-figure purchasing decision to the tune of $30,000 or more on a used car, and then get upset when shit doesn't go your way, then I'm not sure a recall from BMW is going to really help you in the long run. I'd say it's likely you are set up for disappointment in other areas of your life as well.

I certainly paid for a warranty and as soon as it expires, I'm doing RBs or I may just sell the car if something else catches my eye. That said, I am also prepared for a shitshow with the warranty company if my motor ever grenades because any warranty company will want to weasel out of such a high repair cost. So I also make sure I have the cash on hand to replace the engine. I wanted to drive an E92 M3, so I found the cleanest, 1-owner example I could find, and I still am doing everything possible to protect my ability to retain the car in the event of catastrophic failure.

I hate to sound like a douche, but if anyone is buying this car which is known for having a race-derived engine, and he/she isn't willing to, or simply aren't financially prepared to deal with the potential failures that are WIDELY documented on the Internet by now, or at least do RBs as preventive - then they shouldn't be driving an E9x M3. Some people just don't want to spend the money on the repairs even if they can afford to - and that's fine but they shouldn't be driving this car.

It doesn't matter what BMW should have done when they designed this engine - gravity doesn't care what you think. It just is. This is the state of things and in no way is BMW's stance on the engine failures going to change overnight.

I love the responses to someone who is in the hole for $10-$15k. When I bought my first M3, I had never heard a word about Rod bearings. Mostly because I didn't sit on BMW websites reading about M3's. Partly because not a single person I have known with one said a word about it either as they don't hang out in BMW forums. The same way that I have no idea what issues Porsche or Audi have. Sure I read up on the M3, what's the 0 to 60 1/4 mile, top speed, HP. Tq. No different than 95% of the population does when looking into buying a vehicle. It wasn't until AFTER I bought the car that I found out about bearings. Same goes for my wife who did more research than I did. I came from American Muscle cars and had never heard of catastrophic issues on those vehicles. It never occurred to me to think that a $75,000 work of art had a FAULT BUILT RIGHT INTO IT. To your point, sure OP knew about it before hand, so what? That means he shouldn't bitch to his friends? I don't turn my back on my friends in real life and I wont turn it on them here. Plenty of support for you Duke, trust me.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I love the responses to someone who is in the hole for $10-$15k. When I bought my first M3, I had never heard a word about Rod bearings. Mostly because I didn't sit on BMW websites reading about M3's. Partly because not a single person I have known with one said a word about it either as they don't hang out in BMW forums. The same way that I have no idea what issues Porsche or Audi have. Sure I read up on the M3, what's the 0 to 60 1/4 mile, top speed, HP. Tq. No different than 95% of the population does when looking into buying a vehicle. It wasn't until AFTER I bought the car that I found out about bearings. Same goes for my wife who did more research than I did. I came from American Muscle cars and had never heard of catastrophic issues on those vehicles. It never occurred to me to think that a $75,000 work of art had a FAULT BUILT RIGHT INTO IT. To your point, sure OP knew about it before hand, so what? That means he shouldn't bitch to his friends? I don't turn my back on my friends in real life and I wont turn it on then here. Plenty of support for you Duke, trust me.

I_love_cars didn't read past page 6. That part of the thread was still the early phase of the disaster and people saying it was anyone but BMW's fault. I forgive him.

He should read past page 6 though as that's when it got interesting lol.

[Nugget]

Tough luck mate, looks similar to what happened to mine.
Not supercharged and I had done a preventative RB replacement 6 months earlier.
I got a second hand engine from a wreck installed and sold the car.