Would you upgrade from ESS 595 to 650 supercahrger?

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yup, that is why the entries in the dyno database and the 60-130 database are dominated by ESS systems on stock tunes...

I respect you and all your diy posts , the forum needs more people like you thank you .. but you are completely wrong. Don?t tell me one can cookie cutter TUNE FOR MAXIUM POWER DELIVERY!!!

So silly ..

Put your car on the dyno and start from there . End of subject . This isn?t reinventing anything just common sense . Def these cookie cutter tunes are provisioned for safety with larger then needed margins.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yup, that is why the entries in the dyno database and the 60-130 database are dominated by ESS systems on stock tunes...

go to the drag strip times and none of the records are tuned by ess. 10.4 was a ess kit with powerhaus tune.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Maxe93

I respect you and all your diy posts , the forum needs more people like you thank you .. but you are completely wrong. Don?t tell me one can cookie cutter TUNE FOR MAXIUM POWER DELIVERY!!!

So silly ..

Put your car on the dyno and start from there . End of subject . This isn?t reinventing anything just common sense . Def these cookie cutter tunes are provisioned for safety with larger then needed margins.

The results speak for themselves.

BMW uses one tune for all its M3s, yet M3s have different dyno numbers at equal number of mods. That is because the ECU is closed loop and tries to hit targets and reduces the numbers if it cannot reach them safely.

The only case where custom tuning will do anything useful is when you have a truly custom system, for example you're adding cams to a car. If no off the shelf tune works then you need one created.
In supercharged cars, the conditions are well known and unless you've done something strange to your car, the OTS tune is perfectly fine

Purposely reducing safety margins built into the engine to hit higher numbers is completely insane if you plan on keeping the car.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

go to the drag strip times and none of the records are tuned by ess. 10.4 was a ess kit with powerhaus tune.

I haven't seen the drag strip database, I was not even aware that existed.

I have seen the dyno database as well as the 60-130 one. It could not be any clearer.

For the record:
If I had a TTFS supercharger I would use a TTFS tune
If I had the Harrop supercharger I would use BPM's tune
Same for Evolve, VF, AA, etc.
The only difference in this case is that ESS is by far the most used E9X supercharger system and the databases show it clearly dominates results

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by SVH

Dominate, yes. Stock tune? well...not quite. A quick look in regard to the 60-130 data, out of the top ten listed here on the forums only one ESS setup seems to have a stock tune, 3 are other brands, the others are built motors, have higher octane, and/or built motors(i.e. ESS VT4 800, VT4 750, & 725)

Last I checked, built motors still count right?

Anyone can build an engine to get in the ranking, the thing is other tuners are incapable of getting their car to not blow up long enough to do a few dynos and airstrip runs

ESS does not build you custom tunes period, so the VT3/4 systems would be running OTS tunes for those power levels as well, right?

[SYT_Shadow]

I seriously feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Last I checked, built motors still count right?

Anyone can build an engine to get in the ranking, the thing is other tuners are incapable of getting their car to not blow up long enough to do a few dynos and airstrip runs

ESS does not build you custom tunes period, so the VT3/4 systems would be running OTS tunes for those power levels as well, right?

if i'm not mistaken, two of the built motor cars with early records were tuned by ESS, but i'm certain it was not just a click on the website and pay the money. i'm sure there was extensive datalogging and / or dyno sessions at ESS.

for a basic street car i too would use an ESS canned tune or BPM. to dig for that last bit of hourspower before detonation and blown engine? it's not worth it to me to take the $10,000 risk. i'll just put in c16 or ms109 gas for that extra bit and insurance.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I haven't seen the drag strip database, I was not even aware that existed.

I have seen the dyno database as well as the 60-130 one. It could not be any clearer.

For the record:
If I had a TTFS supercharger I would use a TTFS tune
If I had the Harrop supercharger I would use BPM's tune
Same for Evolve, VF, AA, etc.
The only difference in this case is that ESS is by far the most used E9X supercharger system and the databases show it clearly dominates results

well lets put this in to perspective. Ess is the cheapest kit to buy for our cars with numbers to back it. Its the most purchase kit as even used they sell for the best price and the kit is simple. the vf kit literally uses the same components but the bracket system is a nightmare to install. The ess kit uses a single pc bracket.

on to tuning. The owner of TTFS was a tuner for active auto. He is an authorized tuner for VF as well. being a owner of a ess kit and someone who has installed others I can speak to this directly. the Active auto kit requires cutting of the factory rad support which means having to purchase a new pc for retuning it to stock. its also the most expensive kit offered. tune wise most after market tunes from BPM, TTFS, brentuning, all put down the same numbers as the ess tune or in some cases more. It's not really about who is better it comes down to customer service and frankly ess tune wise customer service is horrible especially if its a used kit, things that should not matter.

[SVH]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Last I checked, built motors still count right?

Anyone can build an engine to get in the ranking, the thing is other tuners are incapable of getting their car to not blow up long enough to do a few dynos and airstrip runs

ESS does not build you custom tunes period, so the VT3/4 systems would be running OTS tunes for those power levels as well, right?

As far as I know ESS has done some custom tunes in the past. They don't do it for just anyone. I've tried. They don't build engines though. VT3 & 4's are built by other shops. If I remember correctly some of the earlier builds (by Autotalent?) have tunes that came from ESS.

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

well lets put this in to perspective. Ess is the cheapest kit to buy for our cars with numbers to back it. Its the most purchase kit as even used they sell for the best price and the kit is simple. the vf kit literally uses the same components but the bracket system is a nightmare to install. The ess kit uses a single pc bracket.

on to tuning. The owner of TTFS was a tuner for active auto. He is an authorized tuner for VF as well. being a owner of a ess kit and someone who has installed others I can speak to this directly. the Active auto kit requires cutting of the factory rad support which means having to purchase a new pc for retuning it to stock. its also the most expensive kit offered. tune wise most after market tunes from BPM, TTFS, brentuning, all put down the same numbers as the ess tune or in some cases more. It's not really about who is better it comes down to customer service and frankly ess tune wise customer service is horrible especially if its a used kit, things that should not matter.

AMEN

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by SVH

As far as I know ESS has done some custom tunes in the past. They don't do it for just anyone. I've tried. They don't build engines though. VT3 & 4's are built by other shops. If I remember correctly some of the earlier builds (by Autotalent?) have tunes that came from ESS.

They will 'custom tune' when there is no such thing as an off the shelf tune for that

So, if I want NA cams tuned, they can decide to do this. If I build a stroker, they can decide to do it.

If I want a 'custom tune' of a regular build they refuse to do it. Because it doesn't exist without reducing safety margins.


I'm not sure where someone has said that ESS builds motors. They do not. They tune their supercharger systems. Regardless of who built the VT3 and VT4, ESS does the tuning.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

well lets put this in to perspective. Ess is the cheapest kit to buy for our cars with numbers to back it. Its the most purchase kit as even used they sell for the best price and the kit is simple. the vf kit literally uses the same components but the bracket system is a nightmare to install. The ess kit uses a single pc bracket.

on to tuning. The owner of TTFS was a tuner for active auto. He is an authorized tuner for VF as well. being a owner of a ess kit and someone who has installed others I can speak to this directly. the Active auto kit requires cutting of the factory rad support which means having to purchase a new pc for retuning it to stock. its also the most expensive kit offered. tune wise most after market tunes from BPM, TTFS, brentuning, all put down the same numbers as the ess tune or in some cases more. It's not really about who is better it comes down to customer service and frankly ess tune wise customer service is horrible especially if its a used kit, things that should not matter.

I am quite familiar with other tuning options for the ESS kits.

One of those guys does not believe in intellectual property, it is quite clear he just 'borrowed' the tune. It is mind boggling that people cannot do a google search and see for themselves before getting their 25k engine tuned

The other one I do not want to tune my car. They have an incredible amount of bogus claims, like the match up with ARH (seriously, all they are missing is to add VAC rod bearings to make the Trifecta) and claims 61whp with tuning and an intake on an otherwise stock E46M. Completely insane.

[SVH]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

They will 'custom tune' when there is no such thing as an off the shelf tune for that

So, if I want NA cams tuned, they can decide to do this. If I build a stroker, they can decide to do it.

If I want a 'custom tune' of a regular build they refuse to do it. Because it doesn't exist without reducing safety margins.


I'm not sure where someone has said that ESS builds motors. They do not. They tune their supercharger systems. Regardless of who built the VT3 and VT4, ESS does the tuning.

As I said in my post, I asked, through a reliable well known vender, for a tune from ESS for my 650 going on a stroker (I spun the bearings). ESS has a tune for a 4.6L stroker but mine was to be a 4.4L. They "declined" to make a tune and their reason was along the line of the tune being "all tuned out". Again, not everyone can get a tune from them. Some (a few) have.

As far as their Superchargers go, their fine, worked great. The tunes for stock cars is fine, no need to retune whatsoever. I'd use them again.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I am quite familiar with other tuning options for the ESS kits.

One of those guys does not believe in intellectual property, it is quite clear he just 'borrowed' the tune. It is mind boggling that people cannot do a google search and see for themselves before getting their 25k engine tuned

The other one I do not want to tune my car. They have an incredible amount of bogus claims, like the match up with ARH (seriously, all they are missing is to add VAC rod bearings to make the Trifecta) and claims 61whp with tuning and an intake on an otherwise stock E46M. Completely insane.

It's 12k motor to start lol.. but let's go with this. The e46m3 person also made 630whp out a car I personally know and have worked on. When it was said it could not make more than 570whp. That same person tuned my last m3 which was beat on at every chance given for 55k miles in a two year span, 32knof which was supercharged. I can't speak to 61 wheel but I can speak in person watching a e46 that was bone stock put down 278whp after headers, intake elbow and tune on pump gas make 325whp which is a huge gain on a all motor car. So while you can google I can actually speak to not 2-3 cars but over 12 times by that person here in Florida alone.

Google shows someone's opinonated speculation with in history, every single company in this game has bad reviews at some point. Everyone of them. Too much google can hurt progress.

[1SICKM]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

go to the drag strip times and none of the records are tuned by ess. 10.4 was a ess kit with powerhaus tune.

That's incorrect. I'm ranked 4th with a stock 625 kit/ess tune that I ran in 2013. I held the record for over 2yrs until Powerhaus beat my time but on 10psi and a ice tank.
I would like the opportunity to hit the track again since I'm making more power and approx 200lbs lighter. Maybe next year...

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by 1SICKM

That's incorrect. I'm ranked 4th with a stock 625 kit/ess tune that I ran in 2013. I held the record for over 2yrs until Powerhaus beat my time but on 10psi and a ice tank.
I would like the opportunity to hit the track again since I'm making more power and approx 200lbs lighter. Maybe next year...

I would say it's correct if power huas beat your record which is what I said. Ess no longer holds that record and hasn't for some time now likely due to those who were going from them no longer hitting the track like that. want to say the powerhuas car was sold shortly after. The last few allmotor records were as well other tuners, rk tunes, power haus, and one other for got the name.

I Thought you posted your kit for sale on facebook? if so glad you are back at it. seems like a prime time to set some records, freaking ATCO raceway seems to be setting records all this week.

[1SICKM]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

I would say it's correct if power huas beat your record which is what I said. Ess no longer holds that record and hasn't for some time now likely due to those who were going from them no longer hitting the track like that. want to say the powerhuas car was sold shortly after. The last few allmotor records were as well other tuners, rk tunes, power haus, and one other for got the name.

I Thought you posted your kit for sale on facebook? if so glad you are back at it. seems like a prime time to set some records, freaking ATCO raceway seems to be setting records all this week.

Car and kit were never for sale. Understand your comments but the tuners have little to do with the current top 3. Powerhaus took first because of the boost he was running. 10psi was done just to take the record. That stock motor wouldn't last a month without proper internals and fuel system. The other car is a built motor and third is my buddies evolve kit. I know I could run a 10.4 this time of year with my increased power and weight savings from when I ran years ago but with two kids and life, I have zero time. Cheers...

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by 1SICKM

Car and kit were never for sale. Understand your comments but the tuners have little to do with the current top 3. Powerhaus took first because of the boost he was running. 10psi was done just to take the record. That stock motor wouldn't last a month without proper internals and fuel system. The other car is a built motor and third is my buddies evolve kit. I know I could run a 10.4 this time of year with my increased power and weight savings from when I ran years ago but with two kids and life, I have zero time. Cheers...

There is a gintani car in NYC running 11psi stock motor on e85. As far as I know this is 6months in with him beating on the car. Who knows how long it will last but e85 does allow for pressing the limit.

[gzim335]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

There is a gintani car in NYC running 11psi stock motor on e85. As far as I know this is 6months in with him beating on the car. Who knows how long it will last but e85 does allow for pressing the limit.

I own the car and I run 6.2 60 to 130 vbox verified with weight reduction 11psi full e85 n meth
STOCK MOTOR
Installed n tuned by Alex who flew down to nyc to build my car,6 months n it never even thru a check engine light