More rod bearings

[jiggz]

Originally Posted by ham_sammich

If you're not happy, sell the car and walk away from the brand. There are lots of great cars out there to choose from.

This exactly.

Stupid repetitive thread

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by jiggz

This exactly.

Stupid repetitive thread

What would you like to talk about? How your shifter leather seems tacky on humid days but not so much when the dew point is low?

Every person with rod bearing issues should post no matter how repetitive. It?s probably the only way a prospective buyer can get informed about it.

BTW, for those saying the % of cars affected is low, I don?t know what % of cars out there do this but it is CLEARLY an issue. It borders cliche at this point. Auto manufacturing has reached a point where failures like this don?t happen, and if they do, they warrant a recall. The fact that you can get so many people together on the subject, the aftermarket to provide services and products for it, and there are law suits pending, means there is a problem.

You know why that 1 guy who had a cam snap isn?t on here with others talking about it? Because it was a freak thing that happened only to him and e92 m3 cams don?t snap! You know why your seeing repetitive bearing threads? Cause BMW f?ed up royally.

Repeat away people.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by ham_sammich

To your point, BMW addressed the early failures in the S65 in 2011 by changing the bearing material used, and simply failed to fix the problem..

My understanding is that the change in bearing material had nothing to do with bearing problems. BMW was not trying to fix anything. It was just complying with an EU law change regarding lead.

I don't think BMW believes there is anything wrong with either the early or later bearings. I assume BMW believes all failures out of warranty period are the owner's fault and liability. I think the number of failures is pretty high even if the percentage is low. I changed my bearings when my extended warranty expired. $500 in parts and a day of labor was more appealing to me than a $10k used engine and 3 days of labor.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

My understanding is that the change in bearing material had nothing to do with bearing problems. BMW was not trying to fix anything. It was just complying with an EU law change regarding lead.

I don't think BMW believes there is anything wrong with either the early or later bearings. I assume BMW believes all failures out of warranty period are the owner's fault and liability. I think the number of failures is pretty high even if the percentage is low. I changed my bearings when my extended warranty expired. $500 in parts and a day of labor was more appealing to me than a $10k used engine and 3 days of labor.

I had an SIB about the bearing material change and it started it was due to the early and premature engine failures under warranty. The SIB was under group 11 and related to engine rebuild procedures and parts requirements and that the bearing material had changed. I can't find it in TIS anymore though but I 100% remember reading it.

[pbonsalb]

That would be an interesting admission from BMW. I have never seen it and it has not been posted here in the 7 years I have been active. My guess is that you are thinking of an S54 bulletin, though I do recall reading something to the effect that BMW was changing to a harder bearing on 4 cylinder models with stop start due to issues.

[Munichm3]

I’ve talked to several reputable high end shops, and they all think that clearances are not the problem.

Here the thing for you guys. These cars have multiple owners By now, who knows how each owner treated the car, the most important being fully warmed up before revving the crap out of the car or slamming the gas pedal.

You also have people that were on leases that could give two shits about warming up the car. People that abused it, which will definitely lead to premature wear.

We also have people lying as well. I remember a guy on here claiming his engine blew, but this guy was supercharged and abused the car, and tried to return it to stock for bmw.

You have people that have no clue how to warm up the car or how to take care of these cars. Most of these owners are younger now and are just stepping their foot in performance cars.

I’ve been very strict with this warming up process, because as we all know 10w-60 is a very thick oil. I’m sure half the people that buy these cars have no clue. It’s extremely important for this oil to warm up and spread out to lubricate all parts moving.

Fact is, we don’t know how religious everyone was with warming up the car or how they revved it out.

People in 2008-2009-2010 etc. didn’t think the warm up process was as important, it’s only now with these bearing failures.

We don’t know if the dealers that had the cars did cold revvs constantly, or some test drivers slamming on the gas when cold.

Point is, these cars have had multiple owners, bearing wear will be normal with a performance car that’s had multiple owners. 2K-3K, factor that in the price when buying these cars and have the bearings changed for peace of mind. Stop coming here and b1tching. For all we know your car was supercharged and was traded in and ready to blow.

Don’t blame BMW for your issue that is well known now. All you have to do is open these forums and you see the hysteria everywhere.

Case closed

[Munichm3]

Also, this is why you don’t see bmw making these high strung engines anymore. They’re race. Derived engines and need to be taken care of, the average joe just wants the best car and doesn’t care it revvs to 8400 and needs to be warmed up, another reason why you see these eco friendly engines everywhere now besides Lamborghini mainly.

[ualdrivr]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

No , they are NOT the same . Your situation are actually 2 different WORLDWIDE S65 problems .

1- You had the cold start clunk noise => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=LIMITLESS

2- And later (from your description) you got probably bearing failure => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615

Note : Most S65s are having the cold start clunk noise when they are NOT daily driven (garage queens)
S65 daily drivers don't have the cold start clunk noise , and garage queens from 2008 till 2013 are still running fine TODAY with the cold start clunk noise and without bearing failure .

The cause of the cold start clunk noise are the S65 Vanos-Gears and they have nothing to do with the S65 bearings or with bearing failure .

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by ualdrivr

Thank you !

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

That would be an interesting admission from BMW. I have never seen it and it has not been posted here in the 7 years I have been active. My guess is that you are thinking of an S54 bulletin, though I do recall reading something to the effect that BMW was changing to a harder bearing on 4 cylinder models with stop start due to issues.

It was an SIB related to engine rebuild parts and procedure and it mentioned the different bearing materials and how to distinguish top and bottom bearings etc. It was 100% for the S65 since I looked it up under my VIN. That was a year ago and I checked yesterday, that SIB has been deleted and or archived.

[Adziu16]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

I’ve talked to several reputable high end shops, and they all think that clearances are not the problem.

Here the thing for you guys. These cars have multiple owners By now, who knows how each owner treated the car, the most important being fully warmed up before revving the crap out of the car or slamming the gas pedal.

You also have people that were on leases that could give two shits about warming up the car. People that abused it, which will definitely lead to premature wear.

We also have people lying as well. I remember a guy on here claiming his engine blew, but this guy was supercharged and abused the car, and tried to return it to stock for bmw.

You have people that have no clue how to warm up the car or how to take care of these cars. Most of these owners are younger now and are just stepping their foot in performance cars.

I’ve been very strict with this warming up process, because as we all know 10w-60 is a very thick oil. I’m sure half the people that buy these cars have no clue. It’s extremely important for this oil to warm up and spread out to lubricate all parts moving.

Fact is, we don’t know how religious everyone was with warming up the car or how they revved it out.

People in 2008-2009-2010 etc. didn’t think the warm up process was as important, it’s only now with these bearing failures.

We don’t know if the dealers that had the cars did cold revvs constantly, or some test drivers slamming on the gas when cold.

Point is, these cars have had multiple owners, bearing wear will be normal with a performance car that’s had multiple owners. 2K-3K, factor that in the price when buying these cars and have the bearings changed for peace of mind. Stop coming here and b1tching. For all we know your car was supercharged and was traded in and ready to blow.

Don’t blame BMW for your issue that is well known now. All you have to do is open these forums and you see the hysteria everywhere.

Case closed

Wow pretty much on point with this. So main key is warm it up properly and stay up to par with maintenance and it will be fine? Kinda started to give me a bit of hope on leaning towards an e92 m3. But would you recommend on switching them out to BE bearings anyway when buying to be on the safe side or just wait until the ticking noises start?

[Munichm3]

Originally Posted by Adziu16

Wow pretty much on point with this. So main key is warm it up properly and stay up to par with maintenance and it will be fine? Kinda started to give me a bit of hope on leaning towards an e92 m3. But would you recommend on switching them out to BE bearings anyway when buying to be on the safe side or just wait until the ticking noises start?

Here’s my rule of thumb, you can gamble it and be fine, but if you want peace of mind, she’ll out 2K and get the bearings changed and not worry about them again. The only other major thing will be Throttle actuators, and you can buy those for $500 each now with lifetime warranty.

These cars are very bullet proof for what they are. I have no issues at all with my car, and it’s still on original bearings at 71K miles.

Both TA were replaced under warranty at 56K miles.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Adziu16

Wow pretty much on point with this. So main key is warm it up properly and stay up to par with maintenance and it will be fine? Kinda started to give me a bit of hope on leaning towards an e92 m3. But would you recommend on switching them out to BE bearings anyway when buying to be on the safe side or just wait until the ticking noises start?

More to the point of your question, if you are going to change them then I would suggest to run out and get it done. Do your research and figure out which bearings and bolts to use. Lots of info out there and many disagree on exactly what to use. But don't wait for a ticking noise, by then it will be too late. But if you do start to hear a ticking noise then by all means shut it down and get it into a servicer to have it looked at.

[Adziu16]

I gotcha now with what you meant MunichM3. My buddy has a E60 M5 and he said it was nothing but junk since he had the 06 year with smg. Nothing but constant problems. He told me to stay away from BMW but to be honest I actually loved Bimmers since I was about 6 or 7 years old having the die cast models. 18 years later I’m already looking to buy a real sports car. So pretty much the main concern here is the RB and the TA for the S65. Which in that case sums it up for these cars. My other choice also is a Lexus ISF. Which is solid but already have owned 4 of the Lexus brand cars. Looking to make a change to a V8. One of my friends who got me into the M3 craze happened to experience the rod bearing issue. Swapped them out for a set of different ones and motor was acting up so he ended up throwing in a lower mileage S65 in and problem solved. I remember he let the car idle for over an hour or so but I can’t remember why.

I’m glad to get feedback to my posts on this forum and everyone speaking out about the issues these cars come across. E92’s really get me and love the sound of these motors as they go higher up in rpm with a nice exhaust mod on it.

[oldmanstyle]

Originally Posted by Munichm3

I’ve talked to several reputable high end shops, and they all think that clearances are not the problem.

Sounds like those shops are just high, not high end.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by oldmanstyle

Sounds like those shops are just high, not high end.

Ok everyone, the plot thickens. I tore into the bottom end. The rod bearing are banged up pretty good but not showing a whole ton of copper. The crank looks great btw! So now I don?t have an explanation for the copious amounts of copper. It must be the mains right? Is there copper in the vanos or somewhere else? I?m sure the engine needs to come out now, there is a lot of copper in the filter and the pick up screens that needs explaining. What are the symptoms of bad mains? Thoughts? I?m guessing mains but it?s gonna be a week or 2 before I get the engine out and know for sure.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Duk996

Ok everyone, the plot thickens. I tore into the bottom end. The rod bearing are banged up pretty good but not showing a whole ton of copper. The crank looks great btw! So now I don?t have an explanation for the copious amounts of copper. It must be the mains right? Is there copper in the vanos or somewhere else? I?m sure the engine needs to come out now, there is a lot of copper in the filter and the pick up screens that needs explaining. What are the symptoms of bad mains? Thoughts? I?m guessing mains but it?s gonna be a week or 2 before I get the engine out and know for sure.

If you removed all of the rod bearings and didn't find your source of copper there, the only other culprit has to be the mains. Sorry for your loss.

Take pictures and a couple bearings with you to the dealer and demand a refund.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by ham_sammich

If you removed all of the rod bearings and didn't find your source of copper there, the only other culprit has to be the mains. Sorry for your loss.

Take pictures and a couple bearings with you to the dealer and demand a refund.

A refund huh?....

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Duk996

A refund huh?....

yeah man. Engine failures are unacceptable in 2017 bruh

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by ham_sammich

yeah man. Engine failures are unacceptable in 2017 bruh

True, but a refund seems unreasonable. The car did provide 40k worth of miles to the purchaser. It should just be repaired to provide a reasonable amount of use. Brraaahhhh

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Duk996

True, but a refund seems unreasonable. The car did provide 40k worth of miles to the purchaser. It should just be repaired to provide a reasonable amount of use. Brraaahhhh

It's time to lawyer up bruh. Don't settle for less than a full refund or a new M3.

[Ngilbe36]

In addition to everything that has already been said I would like to add in something. In defense of the car, you also have people having issues that may or may not be Rod Bearings and they immediately jump to claiming that the RBs were the cause of failure because it is in the forums. For example, creating a thread called "More rod bearings" before the motor has been torn apart is a little misleading and only perpetuates the cycle. FYI I also have a ME degree and I do recall a class in performance vs wear. You must have been out that day...