Valve cover leak; 3rd replacement

[L4ces]

The shop replaced them twice already.
Same shop will inspect for warpage or cracks next time. Shop seems competent given specialization in Porsche, MB, VW. Not sure if the S65 makes any difference on such a basic job.

Has anyone heard of any incidence for the S65?
Is this likely?

Symptoms:
I?ve lost oil when driving above 70 mph. I?ve gone through 3 or maybe 4 quarts this month. Obviously due to pressure.

Hard launch i witnessed smoke from burning oil.

Feint smell.

[W Cole]

A gallon of oil per month is leaking out your valve covers?! Do you have photos that seems crazy to me. Usually they have a slow weep.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by W Cole

A gallon of oil per month is leaking out your valve covers?! Do you have photos that seems crazy to me. Usually they have a slow weep.

Cole it is a slow weep if kept under 70mph.

I have gone to Advanced auto parts to pickup a liter of Liquid Gold 10/60 at least 4 times in Sept.

For the record I don?t drive 80MPH but my car somehow achieved such speeds in Mexico. If driven at that speed for say 10-15, the oil level will surely drop.

The car could go for months without a change if it stayed below 70mph.

Finally learned that oil is escaping from the valve gasket and collecting in some channel they say. So it is no longer a mystery as to where the oil went.

Third gasket swap scheduled next week with a closer inspection of the valve cover.

I don?t have pictures of the leakage note can you see it from above. Today I had my exhaust swapped and the undercarriage was drenched with oil which sprayed back to the mid pipes. Oh and I tried to enjoy the new exhaust just a little but the oil weep is too great at sustained rpms.

Previously the PCV’s were replaced with the second replacement of the gaskets.

I will report back mid week on what was found or theories.

[BPMSport]

Leaking valve cover gaskets is not something I see too often on this model. We recently changed them on a customers car with 100K that did a large maintenance job and they were still soft and in very good shape.

As for my E39 M5, wish I could say the same thing...

It should be pretty apparent if the cover is warped if you place the cover on a flat surface. I have seen this a few times on the M62 V8s in the 1995-2001 E38/E39s. If the engine has ever been overheated there is a higher propensity for this.

[Redd]

Valve cover leak is very common. 7/10 cars I've seen have them. But it's a slow weep, not losing quarts. Mine weeps but I don't need to top up any oil between oil changes.

Replacing just the gasket will not fix the problem as the valve cover itself warps and causes poor sealing. The cover itself needs to be changed. My mechanic tells me newer valve covers after 2011 do not exhibit this problem.

[pbonsalb]

At least not yet. They are newer, after all. Maybe the metal composition changed or the design changed?

[Iyzmi]

Is there any damage to the underside of the valve cover? Make sure the plastic covers on the VANOS solenoids are still in place. If they are missing, the VANOS tensioner will chew a small hole through the valve cover in no time.

[rcracin]

3-4 quarts through a valve cover seal? The entire side of the engine where the leak is should be drenched in oil as well as all of the under body panels. Underneath your car would be disgusting. It doesn't make sense.

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by rcracin

3-4 quarts through a valve cover seal? The entire side of the engine where the leak is should be drenched in oil as well as all of the under body panels. Underneath your car would be disgusting. It doesn't make sense.

+1

Not that I don't believe the OP, but you'd be experiencing much bigger issues if you were losing that much oil in such a short time.

[L4ces]

Guys I hear you. Thanks for all the suggestions and things to look for. I will forward them to the shop as well.

Rcracin - yes it is quite oily underneath. The metal tray from the bottom is covered and so is the transmission and streams of oil reaches the xpipe cats and further. This leak as described is significantly worse after my first valve gasket change. The rate of loss is more and I see pooling of oil on the ground (all noticed a week ago).

The oil loss is progressive and it happens at speeds 70+. If 80+ for say 15 minutes, I have observed the oil indicator dropping from full to about 1/8th less. Also, I?ve seen it go from 1/2 full to 1/4 in one day and the next day I knew I would need +1qt if I drove sustained speed above 70. (ALL driving above 55mph has been at the race track). Anyway...

Lat77 - I seen +1qt and I know just when it is about to get there. Prior to the first gasket change, I could go 2-3 months before the indicator changed if and only if I was below 70. I keep oil in the car and this has worsened recently.

The attached pic is oil leaked after my 4 hours of arriving at work. Imagine what is happening under pressure.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by W Cole

A gallon of oil per month is leaking out your valve covers?! Do you have photos that seems crazy to me. Usually they have a slow weep.

This high rate of oil loss started over the last 4-5 weeks. This is my 4rth time picking up oil.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by Redd

Valve cover leak is very common. 7/10 cars I've seen have them. But it's a slow weep, not losing quarts. Mine weeps but I don't need to top up any oil between oil changes.

Replacing just the gasket will not fix the problem as the valve cover itself warps and causes poor sealing. The cover itself needs to be changed. My mechanic tells me newer valve covers after 2011 do not exhibit this problem.

Oddly enough I hope it is as simple as the valve cover because the gaskets were replaced twice.

[ekological]

The stock '11 S65 with 35k miles came out all dirty. All under the transmission tunnel heat shields had a coat of oil. My '02 M5 had pools of oil in the spark plug holes. I replaced the valve cover gaskets and was pretty bummed that within a year or so, they were weeping again. Now, after 7 - 8 years since the replacement, I have no doubt they are weeping even more. The check engine oil level warning came on and it's only been 2200 miles since the last oil change. Before, I would notice the oil level would be fine for ~3k miles and I guess the viscosity would go to hell and it would burn 1 qt/1000 miles after that, so the warning coincided with "change your oil, dummy." I hope you get yours resolved.

[L4ces]

Guys n Gals,

Many have reported the need to top of oil. The owner's manual says something like I am paraphrasing here "check oil level and top off if necessary every 2 gas fill-ups".
Ok, I get that. At 45Kmiles I drove from Oregon to NJ 5 years ago and I recall needing at-least 1.5 or 2.5 liters on that trip. To me that falls with in the expectations so no worries there. Before that trip, I did 5 HDPE events without one noticeable issue period.

Over the past 5 years and extra 100K miles (I know my car's thirst), I've noticed a pattern in consumption. No loss for months regardless of 10w60 or 01w40 until I hit the sweet spot of a short but sustained 80MPH. Bearing were changed around 145K. No change in consumption as I hope as a side affect. Then a month or two ago the leak was discovered by some good folks in fairlawn but I had the valve gasket replaced just 3 weeks ago! So it was done again along with the PCV valves (something about them not working properly and causing build up that could lead to a leaking gasket). I hope to notice a difference in oil consumption. It was better for awhile so I tried the 80MPH sprint and learned it was still there. I said I guess it is here to stay. I never say a leak anywhere.

Then 1.5 weeks ago I hammered it in first and noticed smoke from the rear. I've witnessed that before and consoled myself with "oh that must be build up and that's why it said that you need to hammer it sometime". It was that occurrence that lead to the severe leak that I am talking about now!

Other than that the car runs perfectly at 171K.

Next steps:
- 3rd gasket change and valve cover inspection and possible replacement.

If the this fixes the issue and in addition the as 'stated in the manual' oil loss ceases, then I will go as far as spreading some nonsense that if you are experiencing what feels a little unusual and asking where the heck does the oil go because no leaks are seen, then I'd suggest you have some inspect the rear of the valve covers. EVEN NOW WITH THIS HUGE LEAK, I SEE NO SIGNS OF LEAK WHEN LOOKING FROM THE TOP!

Sorry to be so verbose...

[rcracin]

ok so since it's very dirty, we're certain it's a leak.

Hard to believe all that from a changed valve cover gasket. I'd clean it all up and put in some oil dye. Monitor it closely and it should help you pin point the leak. Constantly paying to change the same thing over and over seems like a waste. Does the shop offer you some kind of warranty? Was it the shop that diagnosed it as a valve cover gasket leak?

If you're in NYC, shoot me a message and I'll poke around and try to locate the leak for you.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by rcracin

ok so since it's very dirty, we're certain it's a leak.

Hard to believe all that from a changed valve cover gasket. I'd clean it all up and put in some oil dye. Monitor it closely and it should help you pin point the leak. Constantly paying to change the same thing over and over seems like a waste. Does the shop offer you some kind of warranty? Was it the shop that diagnosed it as a valve cover gasket leak?

If you're in NYC, shoot me a message and I'll poke around and try to locate the leak for you.

Yes, I understand... it was the second change. When I hammered the throttle like haven't in a long time, it exacerbated the issue somehow.

Thank you for the offer and I hope after Wednesday the diagnosis will be accurate.

Yes the shop offers warranty and did the second job and will be doing the third job for free. If the valve cover is the issue I will pay for parts only because they didn't catch it the second time.

Yes the shop diagnosed that it was leaking from the gasket and that since it was changed recently, they suspect valve cover issues. They will inspect it closely.

[tdott]

The cover itself can also corrode and cause an uneven surface which will definitely leak. Hopefully they spot something when they inspect it, otherwise maybe they suck at installing gaskets and it must be coming off or getting pinched at the back where it is hard to see.

[rcracin]

I've got a few spare sets of valve covers lying around if you want to pick up a set locally and inspected them personally.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by rcracin

I've got a few spare sets of valve covers lying around if you want to pick up a set locally and inspected them personally.

Wow. Yes I would like that. I just noticed that I have to clean out my inbox too. Give me a few seconds.

[L4ces]

I'll PM you.

[deansbimmer]

I suspect you have an issue with excessive crankcase pressure. Might check into a faulty crankcase ventilation system.

Also, the valve covers have that gasket receiving groove that lose their coating. Pulling out the old gaskets usually pull off a good amount of coating, leaving a rough uneven surface that can't seal against the new gaskets. Especially after so many replacements, I'd also suspect that your new gaskets aren't sealing properly.

[SEMOM3]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

I suspect you have an issue with excessive crankcase pressure. Might check into a faulty crankcase ventilation system.

I was going to suggest this. I've had this same issue with a couple of my past beaters. Find the root cause of the oil being forced out of the seals. Are you losing it out of any other seals as well? If you're losing it at that rate, it's likely more than just seepage.