DIY: S65 M3 Rod Bearing

[Ngilbe36]

Alright guys, I have all the parts I need to do the job, I would just have go pick up an engine support and a few of the special tools. I am fairly good mechanically, I do my own brakes, oil, small repairs, whatever. I do not have a lift and would be doing this on jack stands. Engine work gets me a little worried. Do I do this myself or have a local guy that I trust do it for $1200? I need some encouragement here.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Alright guys, I have all the parts I need to do the job, I would just have go pick up an engine support and a few of the special tools. I am fairly good mechanically, I do my own brakes, oil, small repairs, whatever. Engine work gets me a little worried. Do I do this myself or have a local guy that I trust do it for $1200? I need some encouragement here.

I don't think there is much complexity in doing RBs. It's just a bunch of bolts. Keep everything clean and i think you'll be fine.

You can always call me if you run into issues

[Razif]

So to do a rob bearing change you dont have to remove the entire engine out of the car?

Its easy for you guys since in the USA there is so much option such as some very skillful shops/nearby people that really know the shits abt this car... Im from Malaysia and it is a very different story....

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I don't think there is much complexity in doing RBs. It's just a bunch of bolts. Keep everything clean and i think you'll be fine.

You can always call me if you run into issues

Interested in a road trip to the suburbs of Detroit? Ill buy the beer

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Interested in a road trip to the suburbs of Detroit? Ill buy the beer

You could fly me over like another forum member did, but it isn't cheap

[pbonsalb]

If I had to do the job on my back, I would prefer to have 6 ton jack stands for more height, but you need a higher lifting jack to get the car up that high (or a block on top of a lower lifting jack) I would also want to use ARP or other easy to torque bolts rather than stock bolts (which have a complex torque sequence). Since you have the ability to take a picture and send it to SYT for review or to call him to discuss, the job seems doable for a first time DIYer. If you can get a mechanic friend to stop by, even better.

[Razif]

I have a question.

I asked a shop abt bearing preventative maintenance and it seems they usually only use 702/703 bearings with OEM bolts. Thus, to me their knowledge and skill is best with this bearing combos.

Reading this page
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index..../S85_Rod_Bolts

It seems to have something like 130 degrees etc, then some are 45 torque, some are 50 torques etc etc etc. I'm not mechanically clever so I don't understand half of it.

TLDR:
My question is simple, does the installation process is the same when using say oem 703/702 + OEM bolts Compared to BE bearing + ARP bolts?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Razif

I have a question.

I asked a shop abt bearing preventative maintenance and it seems they usually only use 702/703 bearings with OEM bolts. Thus, to me their knowledge and skill is best with this bearing combos.

Reading this page
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index..../S85_Rod_Bolts

It seems to have something like 130 degrees etc, then some are 45 torque, some are 50 torques etc etc etc. I'm not mechanically clever so I don't understand half of it.

TLDR:
My question is simple, does the installation process is the same when using say oem 703/702 + OEM bolts Compared to BE bearing + ARP bolts?

No, completely different.

The oem bolts require a highly complex, long procedure and if you mess any step up you have to discard the bolt.
I'd bet there are either zero or very few shops that discard bolts when they screw up. I'm sure they happily install it anyway.

The BE-ARP bolt is torqued to 50ftlb. No multiple step bullshit, no sequence, nothing.

In this DIY i first torque to like 30, both sides, then take it to 50. The only reason i do this is to settle the cap and it's due to my own ideas, not a spec.

BE-ARP bolts are so much easier to install it isn't even funny

[Razif]

No "degrees" and anything? Great.

If I get it right, just set ur wrench to 50 and torque it to 50 and that's it? (lets say the shop dont do ur 30/50 thingy).

It seems ure using digital torque gauge. In ur opinion, its better then the normal ones that "clicks" when you got the right torque?

The shop says something like its ok to use ARP. However, it seems they more or less only wanna use oem bearings lul, saying stuffs like if you use others they wont be responsible to what happened to the engine after that bla bla bla..

I am more and more inclined to wanna try to do it myself lul. However I never even changed engine oil on this car before, will do my first one very soon tho, it seems simple.

I know how to do it(engine oil change) on other (non sport) cars but you said there is 2x drain plug with this?

Will most likely change my break rotor myself soon as well.
I have just started to learn abt working on cars.

My car is not that high mileage, still got some time to learn the stuffs.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Razif

No "degrees" and anything? Great.

If I get it right, just set ur wrench to 50 and torque it to 50 and that's it? (lets say the shop dont do ur 30/50 thingy).

It seems ure using digital torque gauge. In ur opinion, its better then the normal ones that "clicks" when you got the right torque?

The shop says something like its ok to use ARP. However, it seems they more or less only wanna use oem bearings lul, saying stuffs like if you use others they wont be responsible to what happened to the engine after that bla bla bla..

I am more and more inclined to wanna try to do it myself lul. However I never even changed engine oil on this car before, will do my first one very soon tho, it seems simple.

I know how to do it(engine oil change) on other (non sport) cars but you said there is 2x drain plug with this?

Will most likely change my break rotor myself soon as well.
I have just started to learn abt working on cars.

My car is not that high mileage, still got some time to learn the stuffs.

Yes, you set it at 50 and that's it.

The one i use is better than most as it's like $400.


I would force the shop to do it with BE Bearings. They won't be responsible for anything regardless

[Razif]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I would force the shop to do it with BE Bearings

Damn, you read my mind lol!!

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

They won't be responsible for anything regardless

You read my mind again....hahahha.

Exactly, like they will be responsible, lul.


Shop saying shits like Wont be responsible bla bla bla= in my left ear and escape right ear..lul.

EDIT: in the diy it seems u use placticgauge to measure the clearance. It seems this is not necessary but its just that you do it cause u want to measure ur old bearing clearance?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Razif

Shop saying shits like Wont be responsible bla bla bla= in my left ear and escape right ear..lul.

EDIT: in the diy it seems u use placticgauge to measure the clearance. It seems this is not necessary but its just that you do it cause u want to measure ur old bearing clearance?

You have 2 ears ?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Razif

Damn, you read my mind lol!!



You read my mind again....hahahha.

Exactly, like they will be responsible, lul.


Shop saying shits like Wont be responsible bla bla bla= in my left ear and escape right ear..lul.

EDIT: in the diy it seems u use placticgauge to measure the clearance. It seems this is not necessary but its just that you do it cause u want to measure ur old bearing clearance?

I used it just to show how it was used. I didn't find any diy on the web

On my second car i did not plastigauge

[Razif]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I used it just to show how it was used. I didn't find any diy on the web

On my second car i did not plastigauge

Great. The more I see this the more I wanna work on my own car for anything that I can do it myself. That way I know I did it right.. it come to the small details. Cant expect shops to pay so much attention when they have so many other cars to work on.

For example for this work, I think a good accurate torque is very impt for the connecting bolts, might seem overkill, but for the bolts I want to be as accurate as possible.


Actually , I still don't fully understand what you really did on the 30/50lb torque part.

"First I torqued both sides to 30ft-lb, then to 50. I wanted to ensure they were well settled"

Which both sides? Means the 1st conrod and 2nd conrod on that "cap"?

What I understand is, in total you torque it 4 times. 30/30 then 50/50.

If what I understand is true, Doesn't this leave room for more accuracy error?

Say the torque accuracy is off by 1lb.
When you did the first 30lb, you missed 1lb. Then when you did the next 50lb, you miss 1lb again, total 2lb missed.

Instead of just going 50lb straight, you end up only missing 1lb.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Razif

Great. The more I see this the more I wanna work on my own car for anything that I can do it myself. That way I know I did it right.. it come to the small details. Cant expect shops to pay so much attention when they have so many other cars to work on.

For example for this work, I think a good accurate torque is very impt for the connecting bolts, might seem overkill, but for the bolts I want to be as accurate as possible.


Actually , I still don't fully understand what you really did on the 30/50lb torque part.

"First I torqued both sides to 30ft-lb, then to 50. I wanted to ensure they were well settled"

Which both sides? Means the 1st conrod and 2nd conrod on that "cap"?

What I understand is, in total you torque it 4 times. 30/30 then 50/50.

If what I understand is true, Doesn't this leave room for more accuracy error?

Say the torque accuracy is off by 1lb.
When you did the first 30lb, you missed 1lb. Then when you did the next 50lb, you miss 1lb again, total 2lb missed.

Instead of just going 50lb straight, you end up only missing 1lb.

No one cares as much about a car as it's owner, that is for sure

A good torque wrench is fundamental for precision car work. I have a the big electronic snapon wrench you see here and a second 1/4 one for smaller things.

The caps in this engine are fractured, so you need to place them in the same position they were removed. I make sure they are well seated by torquing one side down, then the other side to 30, then 50 and 50. I prefer that to doing 50/50 straight away as the other side of the cap would be totally loose and may move a bit.

You do not lose accuracy by doing it twice. I don't really care what the first measurement is, i just want the cap to be tight. The torque wrench measures each time independently, so it won't beep until i get to 50. What it was previously is of no concern. In fact, you can torque to 50 and then torque again and you'll see the bolt won't move.

[Razif]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I prefer that to doing 50/50 straight away as the other side of the cap would be totally loose and may move a bit.

Ok now I understand what you did. Very rational to think it might move a lil, well thought.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You do not lose accuracy by doing it twice. I don't really care what the first measurement is, i just want the cap to be tight. The torque wrench measures each time independently, so it won't beep until i get to 50. What it was previously is of no concern. In fact, you can torque to 50 and then torque again and you'll see the bolt won't move.

Great, so this means what I have said is moot. Given my example, even if the torque tool is missing 1lb, it will still be 1lb in the end even if you troque it twice, since you said it measures each times independently.

If/when I do this, I might have more questions to ask but that is all for now. Thanks for putting this up man.

[SYT_Shadow]

Not a problem. When the time comes you can call me like many others do. Cheers

[Ngilbe36]

I did my bearings this past weekend using the DIY. For the record, it can be done on jack stands, albeit a pain in the rear...literally.
Notes:
1. Make sure you do not push the piston rod too far up when trying to remove/install the top bearing. If you do, as I did, you will need to spin the crank to meet it then install the cap and then proceed. This was not a problem, but it involved crawling out from under the car a few extra times.
2. Could have just been me, but installing the oil pan and having the gasket line up was extremely difficult. I COULD NOT have done this without help.
3. Make sure you plug your fan back in at the end...otherwise your oil will get up to a higher temp then you are used to and you will freak out and think you screwed something up...
4. I tend to work slow and this was my 1st time tearing into one of these cars so it ended up taking me a total of 23 hours of labor. Slow and steady wins the race?
5: SYT_Shadow is the man

All this being said. If I were going to do bearings again in another 70k miles, I think I would the shop the $1,400 in labor.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

I did my bearings this past weekend using the DIY. For the record, it can be done on jack stands, albeit a pain in the rear...literally.
Notes:
1. Make sure you do not push the piston rod too far up when trying to remove/install the top bearing. If you do, as I did, you will need to spin the crank to meet it then install the cap and then proceed. This was not a problem, but it involved crawling out from under the car a few extra times.
2. Could have just been me, but installing the oil pan and having the gasket line up was extremely difficult. I COULD NOT have done this without help.
3. Make sure you plug your fan back in at the end...otherwise your oil will get up to a higher temp then you are used to and you will freak out and think you screwed something up...
4. I tend to work slow and this was my 1st time tearing into one of these cars so it ended up taking me a total of 23 hours of labor. Slow and steady wins the race?
5: SYT_Shadow is the man

All this being said. If I were going to do bearings again in another 70k miles, I think I would the shop the $1,400 in labor.

Will post some pics later tonight

Glad it worked out. It's really tough to do these jobs on jackstands, I'm really impressed.

[hungryhippo]

I will probably be doing mine this weekend. Do you think I'll have enough clearance with a 4 post lift with the front raised about 1'?

[McSwine]

You guys doing this have balls as big as church bells.

Sadly, this particular job far exceeds my mechanical aptitude. Plus, I'm too damn old to be crawling around under a car on jack stands.

[RaptorTSI]

For those who've tackled this before, do you recommend purchasing an engine support bar, or can I use my engine hoist? In other words, do you think the hoist 'legs' will be in the way too much?