VAC Coated Rod Bearings, A FULL engine teardown after 39,500 Miles. Look inside!

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by doogee

Interesting. I ordered mine in March and received a custom clevite bearing.

Really? So strange. I have a friend who has a set that he ordered last Thanksgiving and they are also clevite. Mine were ordered last July and are not. Someone has f'd up it seems. Looks like maybe the "BE Shill" was dead on.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Really? So strange. I have a friend who has a set that he ordered last Thanksgiving and they are also clevite. Mine were ordered last July and are not. Someone has f'd up it seems. Looks like maybe the "BE Shill" was dead on.

July 2015? I'm not sure if VAC was using the custom bearing at that point?

[Doc Oc]

They were. Ordered them off their site as "custom extra clearance". They hit the market about 6 mos prior to that I think.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Really!....you think OM VT3/BE bearings suggesting that VAC would send customers bearings to a different spec than that advertised is a "pretty good answer"?
You should run for President.

When they run out of stock on the clevite bearing they send the OE coated one as we all have just seen

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by doogee

July 2015? I'm not sure if VAC was using the custom bearing at that point?

It doesn't seem to matter...The VAC coated bearings appear to come out unmarked regardless of whats written on the backing.

A bearing solution with proven results has be to the top of anyones shopping list.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

It doesn't seem to matter...The VAC coated bearings appear to come out unmarked regardless of whats written on the backing.

A bearing solution with proven results has be to the top of anyones shopping list.

No one has done big KMS on them and taken the bearing out...what happened when that coating runs out?

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

No one has done big KMS on them and taken the bearing out...what happened when that coating runs out?

How long before the reduced oil pressure in the main and rod bearings due to BE bearings increased clearance, results in failure?
At big kms I guess we get to find out.
So far so good for VACs bearings.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

How long before the reduced oil pressure in the main and rod bearings due to BE bearings increased clearance, results in failure?
At big kms I guess we get to find out.
So far so good for VACs bearings.

Go on record and tell me how much oil pressure needs to go down before damage occurs? Can you give me a number...without changing the subject? And what's your prediction about oil flow?

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Go on record and tell me how much oil pressure needs to go down before damage occurs? Can you give me a number...without changing the subject? And what's your prediction about oil flow?

Without changing the subject...Can you give me a number for how many kms the VAC coating will last?

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Can you give me a number for how long the VAC coating will last?

http://www.calicocoatings.com/company/coating-faqs/

Over the phone they have told me 25-30k miles. Now will you answer mine? Bet you won't give a number because if the real measurements come out different then you'll still have a way to claim you were right. So go on the record with a real number.

How much pressure loss will damage bearings?
What's your prediction about oil flow?

[ty20404]

So I checked out the Bearings and they have BMW stamped on them with a logo similar to the Roundel but it isn't the Roundel. It's 3 squares with a square below in the shape of a T that is inside of a circle. Not sure what logo that is but I will assume it is OEM. It also has 702/703 stamped on all of them below the BMW.

I called up VAC and they said they would be happy to swap them out with the Clevite bearings but that he sold the last set today and won't have new ones until late next week. I'm just going to wait and get them swapped out because I definitely want the Lead/Copper in there so if/when the coating wears off I can track wear with oil analyses.

So moral of story. Call VAC and order by phone and specify the correct bearings that you want.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by ty20404

So I checked out the Bearings and they have BMW stamped on them with a logo similar to the Roundel but it isn't the Roundel. It's 3 squares with a square below in the shape of a T that is inside of a circle. Not sure what logo that is but I will assume it is OEM. It also has 702/703 stamped on all of them below the BMW.

That's the Glyco logo. They make the 702/703 bearings for BMW. It should match what you see in post #384
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=384

I called up VAC and they said they would be happy to swap them out with the Clevite bearings but that he sold the last set today and won't have new ones until late next week. I'm just going to wait and get them swapped out because I definitely want the Lead/Copper in there so if/when the coating wears off I can track wear with oil analyses.

Really? There's a six-month lead time to have those bearings custom made. You must be the luckiest guy on the planet. If they really are available in 1-week, that would mean they're at Calico getting coated right now. Be sure to post pictures of the back of them when you get them.

So moral of story. Call VAC and order by phone and specify the correct bearings that you want.

VAC still has a single part number for both types of bearings, and the customer is supposed to know which ones to ask for when they call? How does the guy in the parts department even know which ones to pull when they only have one part number? And one other thing, and this may be a big one to ask yourself whether or not this story even adds up (literally adds up). VAC makes at least $300 profit selling your their custom Clevite bearings. Using that same part number, they make less than $150 profit selling you coated OEM bearings. What company would ever use the same part number for two different parts, make the customer know which ones to order, and "mistakenly" send you and other people the ones that gives them less than half the profit of the other.

///Shill-out///

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Bet you won't give a number because if the real measurements come out different then you'll still have a way to claim you were right. So go on the record with a real number.
How much pressure loss will damage bearings?

I don't know (and neither does BE bearings) by how much the local oil pressure will be reduced in the rod bearing oil film by increasing the clearance. You can throw as many sensors you like externally at the car but it won't give you that exact information.

But it is a fact that increasing bearing clearance reduces oil pressure (all else being equal) and increases peak load on the oil film.
Both these effects are highly undesirable and would be expected to reduce bearing life.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

VAC still has a single part number for both types of bearings, and the customer is supposed to know which ones to ask for when they call? How does the guy in the parts department even know which ones to pull when they only have one part number? And one other thing, and this may be a big one to ask yourself whether or not this story even adds up (literally adds up). VAC makes at least $300 profit selling your their custom Clevite bearings. Using that same part number, they make less than $150 profit selling you coated OEM bearings. What company would ever use the same part number for two different parts, make the customer know which ones to order, and "mistakenly" send you and other people the ones that gives them less than half the profit of the other.

///Shill-out///

Did VAC kill your first born child?

People are treating this situation like iOS vs Android. So immature.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

But it is a fact that increasing bearing clearance reduces oil pressure (all else being equal) and increases peak load on the oil film.
Both these effects are highly undesirable and would be expected to reduce bearing life.

Part of the reason I did not go with BE. But the no brainer for me was seeing 2 or 3 examples of VAC bearings pulled showing 0 wear.

I only know one BMW race engine builder and he says clearance is not the issue and I trust him. He thinks the rods are poorly made or bad assembly.

But in the end, lets just hope both VAC and BE are solutions to this shitty problem!

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by doogee

Part of the reason I did not go with BE. But the no brainer for me was seeing 2 or 3 examples of VAC bearings pulled showing 0 wear.

I only know one BMW race engine builder and he says clearance is not the issue and I trust him. He thinks the rods are poorly made or bad assembly.

But in the end, lets just hope both VAC and BE are solutions to this shitty problem!

Do we really know what VAC bearings look like after many miles of use with a proper installation? Has anybody pulled and inspected their bearings with OEM rod bolts instead of the VAC ARP rod bolts? The VAC ARP rod bolts are known to cause bore distortion with extra clearance. So you can't look at any of those bearings and draw any real conclusions. This question has been asked at least five or six times in various threads and nobody said they have inspected them with OEM bolts. Has that changed? Links?

My shop has done this. We have a set of VAC bearings pulled after 1500 miles on OEM rod bolts. I'll go find them today and take pictures. You won't think they look good at all for only 1500 miles.

Oil pressure is a measure of system resistance. So yes it can be measured with an external sensor just fine. Suggesting that using the same industry standard clearance used by every other OEM including BMW would now cause harm seems like a strange argument. Oil flow increases. Oil pump is variable displacement anyways and keeps the same pressure regardless. As for the rods, same bearing wiping is seen on racing Carrillo rods. Its not a rod design issue.

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by doogee

Part of the reason I did not go with BE. But the no brainer for me was seeing 2 or 3 examples of VAC bearings pulled showing 0 wear.
But in the end, lets just hope both VAC and BE are solutions to this shitty problem!

I hope so too, if BE bearings turn out as good as the VAC option then fair play.

However its pretty underhand of BE bearings to slam VAC's product at every opportunity - personally I wouldn't trust a vendor who uses such disreputable tactics.
They should focus on their product and let the results speak for themselves.

[doogee]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

However its pretty underhand of BE bearings to slam VAC's product at every opportunity - personally I wouldn't trust a vendor who uses such disreputable tactics.
They should focus on their product and let the results speak for themselves.

I wouldn't give them a dime for this exact reason.

[bmwfst1]

Originally Posted by doogee

The best part about this, is the BE Bearing buyers saying things like "I'd never use VAC bearings!!!"

When there are multiple cases of evidence that they do not wear after substantial mileage, and BE Bearings aren't even proven yet, but they'll blindly order those

For the record I have no issue with BE Bearings and I bet they do the job as well.

I have about 20,000miles on mine currently. I can't wait to pull them out at a higher mileage so I can share the results with the community. I use a can of MolySlip at every oil chance so I'm really not expecting to see wear.

Hi where did you get the molyslip from? which can 300ml of 1L do you use?

[doogee]

Originally Posted by bmwfst1

Hi where did you get the molyslip from? which can 300ml of 1L do you use?

I'm lucky enough to have a friend that knows the owner of the company. I'm not sure if it's available in the US. I'd have to find out.

I just use one 300ml can per oil change. It coats all engine surfaces with the same product that VAC uses on their bearings. And wow does it ever stick! If you've ever taken an engine apart which has had MolySlip in it, it does not clean off easily!

I'm a very strong believer in it. The owner brought a car to Mosport, added Moly Slip, drained all the oil and performed an entire lap of the track. Motor was fine.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Do we really know what VAC bearings look like after many miles of use with a proper installation? Has anybody pulled and inspected their bearings with OEM rod bolts instead of the VAC ARP rod bolts? The VAC ARP rod bolts are known to cause bore distortion with extra clearance. So you can't look at any of those bearings and draw any real conclusions. This question has been asked at least five or six times in various threads and nobody said they have inspected them with OEM bolts. Has that changed? Links?

My shop has done this. We have a set of VAC bearings pulled after 1500 miles on OEM rod bolts. I'll go find them today and take pictures. You won't think they look good at all for only 1500 miles.

Oil pressure is a measure of system resistance. So yes it can be measured with an external sensor just fine. Suggesting that using the same industry standard clearance used by every other OEM including BMW would now cause harm seems like a strange argument. Oil flow increases. Oil pump is variable displacement anyways and keeps the same pressure regardless. As for the rods, same bearing wiping is seen on racing Carrillo rods. Its not a rod design issue.

I don't doubt anything you say, but why does it matter? As long as people who run VAC's buy the kit that comes with the bolts, what's the difference if the clearance is gained through the bearing or the bolt as long as it works? Arp's are easier to install and stronger than oem, so I don't really see a problem as long as folks are aware they need the kit and don't mix n match. Are there long term ramifications?

[Leonardo629]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Do we really know what VAC bearings look like after many miles of use with a proper installation? Has anybody pulled and inspected their bearings with OEM rod bolts instead of the VAC ARP rod bolts? The VAC ARP rod bolts are known to cause bore distortion with extra clearance. So you can't look at any of those bearings and draw any real conclusions. This question has been asked at least five or six times in various threads and nobody said they have inspected them with OEM bolts. Has that changed?

Yes, first post of this thread, supercharged miles too.

Why would anyone run it with OEM bolts when ARP bolts can replicate the results seen in the first post?

Everyone is still waiting to see results from owners with BE bearings.......