Track forum general chit chat.

[hayes180]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

what event coordinator did you go with to laguna seca?

One with Speed SF and the other my friend runs, Exclusive Track Days. MRLS I usually go with either one of those two, but I have run with Trackmasters (1 time) and FDR Motorsports (1 time)

[aus]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i'm not sure i'll ever be 100% TC off. i suppose its due to the fact that i haven't gotten to the point where i feel like its holding me back. there is plenty of room for improvement on my part before i can say i'm limited. i'm also not doing this to compete seriously. yea, we have our friendly competitions and rivalries going (its a good thing), but at the end of the day, i'm not winning anything or advancing my racing career, so chancing damaging the car or my safety just isn't worth it to me.
that said, there are some courses i wouldn't be opposed to turning off traction control to gain some experience- but i wouldn't do it at auto club (high speeds/walls) or willow springs (unmaintained desert off the track).

am i stumping my learning curve? maybe. am i still having a great time at the track? hell yea.

Agree completely. You read all the time about hot MDM holds you up and limits your driving, and it can if you're a REALLY good driver, as in you've done some amateur racing. I got a ride with an instructor with an E92 M3 at Autoclub who used to beat 911 turbos in a 944 when she used to race. She drove with MDM (non euro) on and barely went off during the session. She was SUPER SMOOTH and SUPER FAST. After that ride, I was like, I'm NEVER going to be as fast as her and she still used MDM, who the hell am I to be turning it off. I also learned if you're SMOOTH with your inputs and apply throttle and have the front wheels pointed in the right direction, MDM doesn't really kick in.
I'm not doing gentle 4 wheels drifts around certain corners and there's no MDM light going on.

Originally Posted by YMB_M3

Does your MDM not flash/interfere like crazy on the roval? First time i went to ACS I had euro mdm on for the first couple of laps and it was really unsettling the car- very scary at those speeds honestly.

My #1 priority is also safety and getting my car back in one piece, especially since I don't purchase track insurance. That being said, I believe that at a certain level driving with DSC off is more safe than euro mdm because I feel like I have more control over the car at a fast pace, but I might be lying to myself because I always turn it off now. I've actually had way less offs with DSC off (and a faster pace) than with euro mdm. Most of that is probably due to driver improvement but I also attribute some of that to having control of throttle (and no braking being done by the traction control) in sticky situations. Yes this sounds kind of crazy, but I think that euro mdm intervention in the past (when I was less experienced) has been the reason that I was forced to go off track in the case of a minor driver mistake a few times.

IMO driving with DSC off and a slower comfortable pace and building up speed is much more enjoyable than with euro MDM because of how restrictive it is. That being said, euro mdm may be different in the e9x platform than in the f8x.
I'd definitely recommend hitting a skid pad and seeing how easy it is to control this car with DSC off, I expected it to be much more difficult before trying it out.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

car wiggling doesn't seem right. i'm just running regular mdm- no euro.

There's definitely a wiggle at speed around turn 1 and 2 even with euro MDM. It almost feels like little bumps around the turn.
It's nothing, compared to losing power steering entering turn 1. Almost pooped my pants.
.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by aus

There's definitely a wiggle at speed around turn 1 and 2 even with euro MDM. It almost feels like little bumps around the turn.
It's nothing, compared to losing power steering entering turn 1. Almost pooped my pants.
.

are you sure its in the car and not because of the bumps in the track?

[aus]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

are you sure its in the car and not because of the bumps in the track?

Pretty much everyone with some form of DSC felt it at the event, including the instructor who's really fast.
I ran a session with DSC off and didn't feel it. Some of the other guys who run DSC off didn't feel the "bumps" or wiggle.

.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by hayes180

One with Speed SF and the other my friend runs, Exclusive Track Days. MRLS I usually go with either one of those two, but I have run with Trackmasters (1 time) and FDR Motorsports (1 time)

cool, i'll have to keep an eye on the exclusive track days schedule. do they run it like an open day, or smaller run groups?
how was trackmasters and fdr?
i've only gone with speedsf so far and have had really good experiences. i don't get up there that often, but the dates have to work well and i don't want to go with a coordinator that sucks.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by aus

Pretty much everyone with some form of DSC felt it at the event, including the instructor who's really fast.
I ran a session with DSC off and didn't feel it. Some of the other guys who run DSC off didn't feel the "bumps" or wiggle.

.

interesting. the track surface isn't perfect in the roval... lots of cracks and stuff, but i don't remember bumps. i'll have to look at my video.
i know at willow springs turn 8 is like a washboard... was it like that or a little less?

[aus]

It's noticeable and I init]]tially thought it was subtle bumps around the NASCAR turn 1 and 2, but then realized it's more of a "wiggle" of the rear end as other have said.
It seems to be the DSC not liking the banking and difference in speed between the inner and outer wheels on the banking.

As for the bumps, there's a GREAT dip after the wide U turn on the infield as you're about to go into the chicane at the end of the straight (can't remember the turn number). At the end of the straight, I lift a little to get the front down. There's a little patch piece of asphalt on the right, just after this patch, there's a little dip. Right when you feel that dip, turn in and FLOOR it.

I haven't been to Willow in a few years. The off track surface is just scary there.
.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by aus

As for the bumps, there's a GREAT dip after the wide U turn on the infield as you're about to go into the chicane at the end of the straight (can't remember the turn number). At the end of the straight, I lift a little to get the front down. There's a little patch piece of asphalt on the right, just after this patch, there's a little dip. Right when you feel that dip, turn in and FLOOR it.

yea, i have trouble with that last turn. i've experimented with it a bit and liked going a little deeper than they had it setup this past weekend. there is the pothole and the bump. i liked being on the outside of the pothole, but i found i was fighting the car on the exit with the way they had the cones setup.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by YMB_M3

Does your MDM not flash/interfere like crazy on the roval? First time i went to ACS I had euro mdm on for the first couple of laps and it was really unsettling the car- very scary at those speeds honestly.

My #1 priority is also safety and getting my car back in one piece, especially since I don't purchase track insurance. That being said, I believe that at a certain level driving with DSC off is more safe than euro mdm because I feel like I have more control over the car at a fast pace, but I might be lying to myself because I always turn it off now. I've actually had way less offs with DSC off (and a faster pace) than with euro mdm. Most of that is probably due to driver improvement but I also attribute some of that to having control of throttle (and no braking being done by the traction control) in sticky situations. Yes this sounds kind of crazy, but I think that euro mdm intervention in the past (when I was less experienced) has been the reason that I was forced to go off track in the case of a minor driver mistake a few times.

IMO driving with DSC off and a slower comfortable pace and building up speed is much more enjoyable than with euro MDM because of how restrictive it is. That being said, euro mdm may be different in the e9x platform than in the f8x.
I'd definitely recommend hitting a skid pad and seeing how easy it is to control this car with DSC off, I expected it to be much more difficult before trying it out.

I tracked for 4 years with MDM on---at least 80 track days, and respectfully, I disagree with just about everything you wrote except your last advice to hit a skid pad. I agree completely with that.

After all my time with MDM on track, I believe I know quite a bit about how it acts on the E9x platform. (I see you're on the F80.) I have driven it, studied it's behavior with an AIM Solo DL tied into the CAN bus, analyzed my videos with both interior and exterior cameras and experimented with coding different versions of it. At first everyone told me that MDM made me slow, but then I started achieving lap times with MDM-on that had people saying that I was cheating because it was on. You can't have it both ways---either it's holding me back or I'm cheating.....you gotta pick one. Anyway, I say this to attempt to establish my credibility when it comes to knowing MDM.

My thoughts:

-MDM does not flash every time it intervenes. Often times, it does not flash when it holds rpms back, and it doesn't flash every time it activates a caliper. I have been on the ACS oval many times with MDM on. It doesn't unsettle an E9x, but it definitely holds power back out of caution. It holds back engine power in Turn 1/2 and it grabs the Front Right brake in small nudges to make sure the rear stays in the rear. With MDM on, I've experimented with WOT in Turn 2 at ACS. The car totally ignores me.

-DSC-off is NOT more "safe" than MDM on. This is completely untrue. If you're flying off the track with MDM on, then you're overdriving the car and hoping MDM bails you out and then getting annoyed that it couldn't. And if you're staying on track with DSC-off, it's because you're driving more responsibly and the little birdie in the back of your head is telling you to keep things in check. After thousands of laps all over California, I cannot think of a single incident where I flew off track and said, "darn that MDM....made me fly off."

-MDM is not that restrictive if you learn to drive within it's limits. With MDM on, I was able to run 1:51 at Buttonwillow, 1:27 at Big Willow, 1:39 at Laguna, and 1:55 at Chuckwalla CW. I would not call that restrictive. If it's really dropping the hammer on you, then I would argue that you're over-pushing the car when it's on, and you probably don't drive the car that way with it off.

Does MDM potentially cover or hide mistakes? Yes. If you take the time to analyze your driving with data from something like an AIM Solo, you start to recognize where it steps in. With an AIM Solo, you can see where you pressed the gas pedal, but the car didn't really accelerate. You can see where each caliper is activating when you're not pressing the brake pedal. My friend used to watch my videos and tell me all the time, "you're getting on the gas late out of almost every corner." It was MDM holding back the power until it felt it was "safe". I was pressing the gas earlier but the car was ignoring me.

My point in sticking my neck out and posting this is that I don't want people feeling sheepish because they run MDM on, or worse, feel some pressure to turn it off before they have the proper skills. And I definitely don't want people to think it's less safe to run with it on. That is definitely not true.

A skid pad or autocross is the best way to begin acquiring the skills to catch a sliding car. (I mentioned this a few posts up.) There are so many guys that came from karting or raced mini-blah blahs when they were young. I didn't have any of those experiences. It took me several visits to a skid pad before I understood the idea of catching a car properly. You need that. Just backing off the speeds and turning DSC off doesn't teach you what to do beyond the grip limit of the tires. And spinning all over track in dramatic dust clouds like the Tasmanian Devil is a terrible way to learn.

[///Mobbin]

One thing that helped me learn to catch the car was riding with instructors who were regularly sliding and catching their cars. If you see it enough times it helps when you need to apply it. Concur on the skid pad advice also, practice always helps.

Question, do you need to run TPMS sensors in your tires with MDM on for it to work properly? I don't run sensors and the one time I had MDM on at the track it was kicking in way too often, I had also just switched from my street to track wheel set so maybe there is an adaption time there?? I read that for the F8x platform their is an adaption time when you switch tire sizes, not sure if e9x is the same.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

One thing that helped me learn to catch the car was riding with instructors who were regularly sliding and catching their cars. If you see it enough times it helps when you need to apply it. Concur on the skid pad advice also, practice always helps.

Question, do you need to run TPMS sensors in your tires with MDM on for it to work properly? I don't run sensors and the one time I had MDM on at the track it was kicking in way too often, I had also just switched from my street to track wheel set so maybe there is an adaption time there?? I read that for the F8x platform their is an adaption time when you switch tire sizes, not sure if e9x is the same.

No Tpms necessary. It doesn't do anything but turn on the light.

You may have had high tire pressure. I forgot to check pressure once after getting new tires mounted and the car had no grip.

[///Mobbin]

There is another aspect to this worth considering. Before I went TC-off on my last car, I was used to punching the throttle and always asking for as much throttle as there was grip. When I went TC-off for the first time I almost spun out on my warm up lap, even at a very reduced pace. I had to totally change my inputs to the gas pedal, dial it back, and then slowly get back to where I was at, applying the throttle in a smoother fashion. Just pointing this out bc you may fall into habits that will not work well when you eventually turn TC off. If you keep that in mind when you make the transition all the better.

I also agree that you should wait until you are ready and comfortable. I chose a track with large runoff areas and no walls when I first turned it off.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Question, do you need to run TPMS sensors in your tires with MDM on for it to work properly? I don't run sensors and the one time I had MDM on at the track it was kicking in way too often, I had also just switched from my street to track wheel set so maybe there is an adaption time there?? I read that for the F8x platform their is an adaption time when you switch tire sizes, not sure if e9x is the same.

When you're running on track with a track oriented tire, usually you start with the psi's so low that TPMS complains. I think anything under 28 psi and the TPMS is unhappy. I usually start at 25 psi with my tires, so even if TPMS is active, it's not happy, but MDM would work. I know people code TPMS out and MDM still seems to work ok.

[roastbeef]

i have been focusing on being smoother across the board- steering, brake release, throttle application, etc.. i would speculate that most of the time, smoother, more gradual inputs where grip is exceeded would result in a more gradual loss of traction or slide. if someone is mashing the gas while mdm denies power delivery and tries the same with t/c off, its not going to go well.
another thing i've been focusing on is trying to "share the load" of the car between the front and rear tires when cornering and not trying to overload any one tire. edc on comfort is my new thing now after getting solid subframe/diff bushings. its working out well.
actively focusing on being smoother has resulted in lowering pr's by a few seconds at my last three track days- at three different tracks.

[YMB_M3]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I tracked for 4 years with MDM on---at least 80 track days, and respectfully, I disagree with just about everything you wrote except your last advice to hit a skid pad. I agree completely with that.

After all my time with MDM on track, I believe I know quite a bit about how it acts on the E9x platform. (I see you're on the F80.) I have driven it, studied it's behavior with an AIM Solo DL tied into the CAN bus, analyzed my videos with both interior and exterior cameras and experimented with coding different versions of it. At first everyone told me that MDM made me slow, but then I started achieving lap times with MDM-on that had people saying that I was cheating because it was on. You can't have it both ways---either it's holding me back or I'm cheating.....you gotta pick one. Anyway, I say this to attempt to establish my credibility when it comes to knowing MDM.

My thoughts:

-MDM does not flash every time it intervenes. Often times, it does not flash when it holds rpms back, and it doesn't flash every time it activates a caliper. I have been on the ACS oval many times with MDM on. It doesn't unsettle an E9x, but it definitely holds power back out of caution. It holds back engine power in Turn 1/2 and it grabs the Front Right brake in small nudges to make sure the rear stays in the rear. With MDM on, I've experimented with WOT in Turn 2 at ACS. The car totally ignores me.

-DSC-off is NOT more "safe" than MDM on. This is completely untrue. If you're flying off the track with MDM on, then you're overdriving the car and hoping MDM bails you out and then getting annoyed that it couldn't. And if you're staying on track with DSC-off, it's because you're driving more responsibly and the little birdie in the back of your head is telling you to keep things in check. After thousands of laps all over California, I cannot think of a single incident where I flew off track and said, "darn that MDM....made me fly off."

-MDM is not that restrictive if you learn to drive within it's limits. With MDM on, I was able to run 1:51 at Buttonwillow, 1:27 at Big Willow, 1:39 at Laguna, and 1:55 at Chuckwalla CW. I would not call that restrictive. If it's really dropping the hammer on you, then I would argue that you're over-pushing the car when it's on, and you probably don't drive the car that way with it off.

Does MDM potentially cover or hide mistakes? Yes. If you take the time to analyze your driving with data from something like an AIM Solo, you start to recognize where it steps in. With an AIM Solo, you can see where you pressed the gas pedal, but the car didn't really accelerate. You can see where each caliper is activating when you're not pressing the brake pedal. My friend used to watch my videos and tell me all the time, "you're getting on the gas late out of almost every corner." It was MDM holding back the power until it felt it was "safe". I was pressing the gas earlier but the car was ignoring me.

My point in sticking my neck out and posting this is that I don't want people feeling sheepish because they run MDM on, or worse, feel some pressure to turn it off before they have the proper skills. And I definitely don't want people to think it's less safe to run with it on. That is definitely not true.

A skid pad or autocross is the best way to begin acquiring the skills to catch a sliding car. (I mentioned this a few posts up.) There are so many guys that came from karting or raced mini-blah blahs when they were young. I didn't have any of those experiences. It took me several visits to a skid pad before I understood the idea of catching a car properly. You need that. Just backing off the speeds and turning DSC off doesn't teach you what to do beyond the grip limit of the tires. And spinning all over track in dramatic dust clouds like the Tasmanian Devil is a terrible way to learn.

Originally Posted by dogbone

I tracked for 4 years with MDM on---at least 80 track days, and respectfully, I disagree with just about everything you wrote except your last advice to hit a skid pad. I agree completely with that.

After all my time with MDM on track, I believe I know quite a bit about how it acts on the E9x platform. (I see you're on the F80.) I have driven it, studied it's behavior with an AIM Solo DL tied into the CAN bus, analyzed my videos with both interior and exterior cameras and experimented with coding different versions of it. At first everyone told me that MDM made me slow, but then I started achieving lap times with MDM-on that had people saying that I was cheating because it was on. You can't have it both ways---either it's holding me back or I'm cheating.....you gotta pick one. Anyway, I say this to attempt to establish my credibility when it comes to knowing MDM.

My thoughts:

-MDM does not flash every time it intervenes. Often times, it does not flash when it holds rpms back, and it doesn't flash every time it activates a caliper. I have been on the ACS oval many times with MDM on. It doesn't unsettle an E9x, but it definitely holds power back out of caution. It holds back engine power in Turn 1/2 and it grabs the Front Right brake in small nudges to make sure the rear stays in the rear. With MDM on, I've experimented with WOT in Turn 2 at ACS. The car totally ignores me.

-DSC-off is NOT more "safe" than MDM on. This is completely untrue. If you're flying off the track with MDM on, then you're overdriving the car and hoping MDM bails you out and then getting annoyed that it couldn't. And if you're staying on track with DSC-off, it's because you're driving more responsibly and the little birdie in the back of your head is telling you to keep things in check. After thousands of laps all over California, I cannot think of a single incident where I flew off track and said, "darn that MDM....made me fly off."

-MDM is not that restrictive if you learn to drive within it's limits. With MDM on, I was able to run 1:51 at Buttonwillow, 1:27 at Big Willow, 1:39 at Laguna, and 1:55 at Chuckwalla CW. I would not call that restrictive. If it's really dropping the hammer on you, then I would argue that you're over-pushing the car when it's on, and you probably don't drive the car that way with it off.

Does MDM potentially cover or hide mistakes? Yes. If you take the time to analyze your driving with data from something like an AIM Solo, you start to recognize where it steps in. With an AIM Solo, you can see where you pressed the gas pedal, but the car didn't really accelerate. You can see where each caliper is activating when you're not pressing the brake pedal. My friend used to watch my videos and tell me all the time, "you're getting on the gas late out of almost every corner." It was MDM holding back the power until it felt it was "safe". I was pressing the gas earlier but the car was ignoring me.

My point in sticking my neck out and posting this is that I don't want people feeling sheepish because they run MDM on, or worse, feel some pressure to turn it off before they have the proper skills. And I definitely don't want people to think it's less safe to run with it on. That is definitely not true.

A skid pad or autocross is the best way to begin acquiring the skills to catch a sliding car. (I mentioned this a few posts up.) There are so many guys that came from karting or raced mini-blah blahs when they were young. I didn't have any of those experiences. It took me several visits to a skid pad before I understood the idea of catching a car properly. You need that. Just backing off the speeds and turning DSC off doesn't teach you what to do beyond the grip limit of the tires. And spinning all over track in dramatic dust clouds like the Tasmanian Devil is a terrible way to learn.

That's a great, informative post and a great read for anyone contemplating track driving with MDM vs DSC off.

I would just like to clarify that I did not say DSC off is safer than MDM at all driver levels- maybe in my post I should have been more clear. Obviously if somebody is a novice/inexperienced driver, does not understand vehicle dynamics or have any sense of car control then MDM would be a LOT safer than DSC off. I would never recommend someone at that level to drive with the nannies off.

My claim was that at a certain driver level who has fast pace, and a sense of car control and vehicle dynamics, MDM can interfere unnecessarily and affect the drivers ability to place the car precisely where they want it on track at fast pace. For example, I have personally experienced times where unnecessary MDM intervention (it was not saving me- everything was under control) has prevented me from putting/ pointing the car where I wanted and needed it on track when driving at or a bit exceeding the limit of the tires grip, leading me to push wide and put 2 wheels off on exit. There are instances where you can use the rotation of the car on corner entry/ before the apex to scrub speed and get the car pointed in the right direction for corner exit when entering a corner a bit too hot that MDM does not allow.

Does this mean that you can't set fast lap times with MDM on? No, of course not and your lap times are impressive to say the least. To my knowledge (which is less so than yours given your experience) a fast driver is going to want to be at the limit of the tires for as long as possible throughout the course . This means that you'll probably be right under the limit of the tires and right over the limit of the tires throughout the lap because it's generally very difficult to get to exactly to the limit of the tires' grip and not exceed it (we aren't professionals here). With MDM in my experience, it affects those times that you go right over the limit and when you do go a bit over the limit and there is intervention that is not saving you, it's hurting your ability to place the car precisely and can encourage pushing you off track/not making the corner.

It could be possible that the e9x MDM differs from the MDM in the f8x that I have experience with, as one difference I can notice from your post is the lack of e9x MDM intervention on the roval at ACS.

Just my .02

[hayes180]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

cool, i'll have to keep an eye on the exclusive track days schedule. do they run it like an open day, or smaller run groups?
how was trackmasters and fdr?
i've only gone with speedsf so far and have had really good experiences. i don't get up there that often, but the dates have to work well and i don't want to go with a coordinator that sucks.

So exclusive track days is by far the best bang for your buck. Three run groups A (Open passing) B (point by in corners open in straights) C Point by only. 7 Twenty Minute Sessions (on track every hour)... pretty awesome. FDR and track masters were well put together. FDR/ Trackmasters ran a "mixed group" where it was opening passing everywhere but if you ran a "meatball" on your car (aka a red circle on the front and rear bumper) and if someone wanted to pass you you had to point them by. If you came up on someone who did not have a meatball you could open pass them. That was a good experience for me to get into open passing.

Ill post on here when Exclusive Track Days does there events for 2017. Def recommend it!

[hayes180]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I tracked for 4 years with MDM on---at least 80 track days, and respectfully, I disagree with just about everything you wrote except your last advice to hit a skid pad. I agree completely with that.

Fantastic write up. Thanks for sharing.

[admranger]

Great discussion on MDM vs. no MDM. FWIW, i learned car control w/a rear wheel drive Plymouth Valiant on bias ply tires...in the snow and ice of the midwest. Then autocross. Then driving schools and finally club racing.

My first track car w/any sort of traction control was the E46M3 and the first thing we asked when we picked it up in Munich was: "how do you turn the traction control off?" Guess what? I drive with euro MDM now. It's a combination of lack of practice and a growing self preservation gene...

So how'd we do it before MDM and traction control? Well, you worked up to the limits slowly. You found your limits on the slow corners first (e.g., turn 2 at Buttonwillow clockwise), not at the fast corners (e.g., turn 8 at Willow Springs).

[aus]

Originally Posted by admranger

Great discussion on MDM vs. no MDM. FWIW, i learned car control w/a rear wheel drive Plymouth Valiant on bias ply tires...in the snow and ice of the midwest. Then autocross. Then driving schools and finally club racing.

My first track car w/any sort of traction control was the E46M3 and the first thing we asked when we picked it up in Munich was: "how do you turn the traction control off?" Guess what? I drive with euro MDM now. It's a combination of lack of practice and a growing self preservation gene...

So how'd we do it before MDM and traction control? Well, you worked up to the limits slowly. You found your limits on the slow corners first (e.g., turn 2 at Buttonwillow clockwise), not at the fast corners (e.g., turn 8 at Willow Springs).

Another example of an instructor who runs MDM and has WAY more talent than I'll ever have.

Thanks for the suggestion of 4 wheel drift around corners to know you're reaching the limits of your tires. I can't do it consistently yet without an brave yellow shirt copilot, but it's been eye opening to know you can drive that fast around a corner while under control.
.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by hayes180

So exclusive track days is by far the best bang for your buck. Three run groups A (Open passing) B (point by in corners open in straights) C Point by only. 7 Twenty Minute Sessions (on track every hour)... pretty awesome. FDR and track masters were well put together. FDR/ Trackmasters ran a "mixed group" where it was opening passing everywhere but if you ran a "meatball" on your car (aka a red circle on the front and rear bumper) and if someone wanted to pass you you had to point them by. If you came up on someone who did not have a meatball you could open pass them. That was a good experience for me to get into open passing.

Ill post on here when Exclusive Track Days does there events for 2017. Def recommend it!

cool, sounds like exclusive track days runs their events alot like speeddistrict. three run groups, not the 5 run group stuff. i tracked with a coordinator called high performance driving university. it was a completely open track the whole day and you go out when you feel like it. instruction was a good value with pro drivers that analyzed your gopro video in between your sessions. i did this at auto club speedway a few months ago, and i had a good time, but i was constantly having to get gas because of the extended run time.
i always double up on the run groups when i go to laguna. its by far my favorite track.

[hayes180]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

cool, sounds like exclusive track days runs their events alot like speeddistrict. three run groups, not the 5 run group stuff. i tracked with a coordinator called high performance driving university. it was a completely open track the whole day and you go out when you feel like it. instruction was a good value with pro drivers that analyzed your gopro video in between your sessions. i did this at auto club speedway a few months ago, and i had a good time, but i was constantly having to get gas because of the extended run time.
i always double up on the run groups when i go to laguna. its by far my favorite track.

Yup Laguna is by far the best, it will never get old. Let me know when you're up in Monterey and I'll meet up for a track day.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by hayes180

Yup Laguna is by far the best, it will never get old. Let me know when you're up in Monterey and I'll meet up for a track day.

Interesting. I way prefer Buttonwillow 13CW and Sonoma would be my second choice.