Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

why people feel 5w40 is enough for a motor that operates at a 210 oil temp when not on it is beyond me. Even nissan recommends 20w50 in their sports car during hotter times. and the oil temps aren't as high as ours. the only place 5/40 helps would be on start up. after that when the motor is now hot that oil is like water.

Be careful....that's common sense you are spouting there, there is no place for that on these here forums.

Cheers,
e46e92

[pbonsalb]

E9x 335i run around 210. I think the oil cooler thermostat is about 240. And I think the N54 uses 5W30. No worries at 210 or even 250. Synthetics can handle over 250 no problem.

If you see near 300, you are tracking the car and I agree a thicker oil is better for track use.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

why people feel 5w40 is enough for a motor that operates at a 210 oil temp when not on it is beyond me. Even nissan recommends 20w50 in their sports car during hotter times. and the oil temps aren't as high as ours. the only place 5/40 helps would be on start up. after that when the motor is now hot that oil is like water.

I know more than BMW engineering is why.

Castrol 10w60 hasn't treated me wrong. We're all desperately trying to chase that silver bullet that guarantees our engine won't grenade.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by redpriest

I know more than BMW engineering is why.

Castrol 10w60 hasn't treated me wrong. We're all desperately trying to chase that silver bullet that guarantees our engine won't grenade.

Exactly !
The oil was/is never the problem..

I received today PM from the US as well ..
Bearings were replaced and the S65 has bad signs of BF again..
Can't say more about it because he wants to keep the situation private ..
Need to say that replacing bearings is no guarantee !
I heard this from two different owners and only in this week , and that really sucks !

[squartus]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Exactly !
The oil was/is never the problem..

I received today PM from the US as well ..
Bearings were replaced and the S65 has bad signs of BF again..
Can't say more about it because he wants to keep the situation private ..
Need to say that replacing bearings is no guarantee !
I heard this from two different owners and only in this week , and that really sucks !

It was suggested to me to be more of an oiling issue, bad clearance compounding the problem.

[bxchino_m3]

i just bow my engine last december now just got a new engine n building with header its a lot more will post picture soon

[Gesler]

Can you mention if these were coated oem bearings or the totally different ones?

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Exactly !
The oil was/is never the problem..

I received today PM from the US as well ..
Bearings were replaced and the S65 has bad signs of BF again..
Can't say more about it because he wants to keep the situation private ..
Need to say that replacing bearings is no guarantee !
I heard this from two different owners and only in this week , and that really sucks !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Gesler

Can you mention if these were coated oem bearings or the totally different ones?

Let us say this in other words to stay out of trouble...both were a well-know aftermarket brand but came from a different supplier .
Both failed within a year .

The second case PM'd me yesterday , he said that his S65 was running hot and got reduced engine power .
He dumped the oil and saw metal dust and small flakes throughout.
He said also to me..
I'll sent out a Blackstone first thing this morning but I know what they are going to tell me. Just wanted to tell someone (need to vent!)
I love the car but am so disappointed....

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Let us say this in other words to stay out of trouble...both were a well-know aftermarket brand but came from a different supplier .
Both failed within a year...

...but were they an increased clearance design or just coated/treated oem? Important question.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by ksteckba

...but were they an increased clearance design or just coated/treated oem? Important question.

Out of respect to the sellers and members I cannot share more private information, because business , jobs and persons are involved in this situation.
Please don't ask me further questions ...
Thank you .

[Gesler]

No problem, appreciate the info as it is.

Like you, love the car and hope to keep It for a long time. Bit the bullet and splurged on BMW extended warranty till 2018 but am trying to find out solutions for after. Have a GT4 now as well but the M3 engine is on a different level.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Out of respect to the sellers and members I cannot share more private information, because business , jobs and persons are involved in this situation.
Please don't ask me further questions ...
Thank you .

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Gesler

No problem, appreciate the info as it is.

Like you, love the car and hope to keep It for a long time. Bit the bullet and splurged on BMW extended warranty till 2018 but am trying to find out solutions for after. Have a GT4 now as well but the M3 engine is on a different level.

I see ..
Thank you for the understanding and respect
Actually I am in the same boat , because I'm the owner of a S65 as well.
I adviced the guys in trouble... to let replace bearings only by persons with specific bearing knowledge for our S65 engines.
I stored this address in Germany for me personal if it happens with my S65 => http://www.der-bmw-spezialist.de/

I had several chats with Germans and it seems the place to be for our S65 , but there is a wait list of 2 months which means they do it a lot and with warranty ! (they are also engine builders)
But I don't know with what kind/type of bearings they use for the replacement .
Of course it depends also how it happens , if we hear the rattle noise it's already too late and game over and a complete engine replacement is required ..
Same thing with a black hole...too late because metal shavings are all over the system !
A black hole happend with the Belgian Sonny-Heyman as well (1 month ago) and the whole engine is total loss..and he is looking for another S65 !
I had several chats with the Belgian and here is the whole story with pics of the car and his S65 =>http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1262599
People sent me a lot S65 videos to listen to the engine..
And of course I know the whole situation really sucks ...

[4corners]

Tomorrow I drop my car off at Lang Racing in Irvine for bearings. Unlike some areas in the country, there's no lack of shops in SoCal that do these bearings routinely. I chose Lang for several reasons. They have been building BMW engines for a long time. I like their philosophy. Andrew Lang himself promptly returned all my emails and was clear and straight forward about the work.

They want the car two full days. I have 148000 miles on it. If bearing replacement is now recommended every 60k, I'm overdue. I hope to have pics of the 08 bearings with 148000 miles to post here.

The bearing thing has only fractionally reduced my enjoyment of the car. I still drive it like I stole it when I can get away with it. But then I listen for noises too. I finally realized I can't afford not to. $2000 plus now or $15000 plus later....maybe. The 'maybe' is the rub here. Ultimately the appearance of bearings on E92POST is undeniable.

There have been no funny sounds, it runs as it always has, like a banshee. My last oil interval was 0-40 Mobil 1. I have a sample to send to Blackstone in the car. Haven't made it to the post office yet. I'll be using 10-60 after bearing change. The engine throughout was engineered for it right? Vanos, etc.

Stay tuned!

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by 4corners

Tomorrow I drop my car off at Lang Racing in Irvine for bearings. Unlike some areas in the country, there's no lack of shops in SoCal that do these bearings routinely. I chose Lang for several reasons. They have been building BMW engines for a long time. I like their philosophy. Andrew Lang himself promptly returned all my emails and was clear and straight forward about the work.

They want the car two full days. I have 148000 miles on it. If bearing replacement is now recommended every 60k, I'm overdue. I hope to have pics of the 08 bearings with 148000 miles to post here.

The bearing thing has only fractionally reduced my enjoyment of the car. I still drive it like I stole it when I can get away with it. But then I listen for noises too. I finally realized I can't afford not to. $2000 plus now or $15000 plus later....maybe. The 'maybe' is the rub here. Ultimately the appearance of bearings on E92POST is undeniable.

There have been no funny sounds, it runs as it always has, like a banshee. My last oil interval was 0-40 Mobil 1. I have a sample to send to Blackstone in the car. Haven't made it to the post office yet. I'll be using 10-60 after bearing change. The engine throughout was engineered for it right? Vanos, etc.

Stay tuned!

Hope your decision to change will be justified

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by 4corners

If bearing replacement is now recommended every 60k, I'm overdue.

lolwut?

[L4ces]

Good bearings and an less than perfect installation could be a problem.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by squartus

Oil tests every oil change, which last test showed perfect results 3k ago. Did everything right and still got bit.

Sorry for your double trouble...

However, according to BMW you did almost everything right. Neither Motul nor 5W40 are certainly "right" according to BMW. It is particularly concerning that the oil testing did not catch a hint of elevated aluminum. Only two conclusions I can draw from that are:

1. Oil testing is not nearly as powerful/predictive as those suppliers claim.
2. Your failure was more instant/catastrophic and was not showing increased bearing wear over time.

I think my guess is probably leaning toward #1.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Out of respect to the sellers and members I cannot share more private information, because business , jobs and persons are involved in this situation.
Please don't ask me further questions ...
Thank you .

Absolutely typical. First you claim to have insider information from somewhere directly at BMW that the OEM bearings have a fundamental design flaw, but of course, you can't share your "precious" information. Now you have additional information showing that at least one of the various aftermarket bearing designs do not promote a significantly increased lifespan - and just the same - you will not share the information. No businesses out there are are "on the line" based on either alleged piece of information. The only one that might remotely be so is BE Bearings and that is a hobby not a business. Witholding both are a huge disservice to the community which you claim to care so much about.

Either way, absolutely as I predicted so long ago - at least some, probably most of the aftermarket bearing solutions are not properly developed, not properly tested and are in no way a panacea for universally prolonging S65 lifetime.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Absolutely typical. First you claim to have insider information from somewhere directly at BMW that the OEM bearings have a fundamental design flaw, but of course, you can't share your "precious" information. Now you have additional information showing that at least one of the various aftermarket bearing designs do not promote a significantly increased lifespan - and just the same - you will not share the information. No businesses out there are are "on the line" based on either alleged piece of information. The only one that might remotely be so is BE Bearings and that is a hobby not a business. Witholding both are a huge disservice to the community which you claim to care so much about.

Either way, absolutely as I predicted so long ago - at least some, probably most of the aftermarket bearing solutions are not properly developed, not properly tested and are in no way a panacea for universally prolonging S65 lifetime.

If increased clearance can't fix the bearing failure then what will? There must be something else the issue here, or is the entire S65 design flawed?

[Richbot]

S65 is coming up on 10 years from debut. S85 12.

This thread is still delivering

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Absolutely typical. First you claim to have insider information from somewhere directly at BMW that the OEM bearings have a fundamental design flaw, but of course, you can't share your "precious" information. Now you have additional information showing that at least one of the various aftermarket bearing designs do not promote a significantly increased lifespan - and just the same - you will not share the information. No businesses out there are are "on the line" based on either alleged piece of information. The only one that might remotely be so is BE Bearings and that is a hobby not a business. Witholding both are a huge disservice to the community which you claim to care so much about.

Either way, absolutely as I predicted so long ago - at least some, probably most of the aftermarket bearing solutions are not properly developed, not properly tested and are in no way a panacea for universally prolonging S65 lifetime.

No sir it's not typical !

If people would share with you via PM "THEIR" private information like BF with replaced bearings and they ask you to "NOT" share it in public , what would you do ?
Just throw it on here ?
Well ,I gave my word for it !

Actually it's quite simple ...
People share it with me because they know me and they know they can trust me ..
Why ?
That's quite simple again , because they don't want to share it in public that they had BF twice and they think about the VALUE of the car !
Those people are really confused and disappointed because they don't even know what to do anymore ..
Another bearing replacement again ? And with what kind of bearings this time ?
Or replacing the bearings with no matter what bearings and dump the damn thing ?
Or just dump the car ? And where ? Just sell it private ? Or on a BMW/Dealer ?
I shared the problem without mentioning names (like I promised to them) to show to other people that replacing bearings is NO guarantee ..
Why would I do it otherwise ?
Would you like to receive via PM their S65 trouble as well ?
I can always ask them if you want ...no problem .

Would you buy a S65 that had BF twice ?
That's the whole point ..and the drama of it .

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Sorry for your double trouble...

However, according to BMW you did almost everything right. Neither Motul nor 5W40 are certainly "right" according to BMW. It is particularly concerning that the oil testing did not catch a hint of elevated aluminum. Only two conclusions I can draw from that are:

1. Oil testing is not nearly as powerful/predictive as those suppliers claim.
2. Your failure was more instant/catastrophic and was not showing increased bearing wear over time.

I think my guess is probably leaning toward #1.

Why lean towards the first explanation? Seems to me second would make more sense....especially in a supercharged application.